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posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 01:24 PM
You have to stop this.

Every time i post a message for the sake of souls you come
in a post lies or doubts or something about inconsistancies.

please for the sake of souls let them read without you spreading these lies.

I love your soul, but they are blatant lies because of that particular
websites misunderstanding or your misunderstanding.

Are you that fast to bash your own religion?

And you say your a christian?

Why do you bash sacred inspired scripture?

My god im so tired of this.

I have SEEN miracles of this man, dreamt of him, witnessed
miracles of healings from him and you say his scripture is false??

just leave my post alone if your going to destroy the listener. thats what your


I am not going to be posting much longer on here.

events in the future will demolish any day to day contact and we will be hit
with massive destruction.

so please for the sake of souls, leave the falsehood and attacks out of
your replies, please.

You do not know whos work you are doing.


posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 03:14 PM
This is a public forum. The purpose is to engage members in debate and dialogue on topics relating to religion's influence on society and conspiracy theories.

While you may feel your information relating to the fundamentalist Christian faith is helpful to a "soul" others will not feel the same way. It's helpful to respect all opinions and use them as food for growth.

posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 04:02 PM
yea i know, its called political correctness where no
one belief is right, right?

But im talking about those who willingly see my post and attack me with harsh remarks. how do they
even get to stay on the board?


posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 04:19 PM
No... it's called respecting the beliefs of another.

Please provide evidence of harsh remarks where they do not respond in-kind from intolerant messages you've initiated.

posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 05:14 PM
Hey truth. calm down and dont worry.

Just remember the words of Jesus

Matthew chapt 5 verse 10 - 12.

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

REJOICE AND BE EXCEEDING GLAD, for GREAT is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

(from the king james version).

I also go through much ridicule especially at my work. But I then think upon these words of Jesus and then Im filled with joy knowing that it is not all in vain.
Also remember that through much tribulation do we enter the kingdom of heaven.

Now concerning our friend TOLTEC, as christians we are to feel a christ like love for him for Jesus says we are to bless our enemies.

by spreading the word of god you are doing a wonderful work for Jesus and are saving people through christ from death and hell. So dont let me hear of you not wanting to post here anymore.
Keep going for Jesus.

May god pour out his grace and richly bless you and Toltec.

Your friend in christ stewards.

posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 06:18 PM

Thanks for you comments.

However, keep in mind that this is a diverse community and we attempt to respect all beliefs, including non-beliefs. How would you feel if a Satanist, who honestly believes his religion is the one and only true belief system, comes along and repeatedly speaks against all other religions, including Christianity. Or, as an atheist, I continued to post how all religions are false man-made constructs. Your response would certainly contain a level of passion in these cases.

Truth, has affording little tolerance in the beliefs of others in theological discussions he initiates. As we continue to discuss the role of organized religion in society and political conspiracy, we would hope tolerance prevails. When it doesn't, don't expect civil responses.



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 06:29 PM
They do, and they do quite often, William. Ever since the religion forum opened, the funnest game here has been "Kick the Christian".

Truth, I thought you blew this lollypop stand a while back; I thought you said you weren't coming back.

posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 06:36 PM
Perhaps, but Christians tend to be awful sensitive about what they classify as a "kick".

posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 07:31 PM
"Truth" I quoted you word for word, how does that constitute a lie? You think my opinion is invalid then argue with something as valid. It is you who have to date never offered a valid response to any post you have presented. It is you who's conclusion on Lessalet was an embarrassment. Its simply was my pleasure to point it out.

TC I have nothing against Christians. If you in fact are feeling "kicked around" might I suggest that you reread the posts prepared by Christians in relation to fringe systems of belief which as well consider themselves Christian. But at present its clear by your response TC, that despite our discussion in the past (which in fact
were sincere) you do not accept me either as a Christian (that is somewhat insulting).

There is a word, that word is "intolerant." And very often when one runs into persons who are intolerant (of for instance the belief systems of other's).What is most often presented are a degree of camaraderie, which often ignores the inappropriate behaviors of those who are considered part of the team. One very good example of this TC is your intolerant response to my errors in spelling and punctuation, when I firsts signed on here. This despite the absolutely disgusting diction, punctuation, sentence spacing as well as spelling presented by "truth."

Seriously man, even a minimal review of those initial day's. When I was testing the waters (in regard to your responses) makes clear this point. You have not responded to "Truth" is the same way, why is that TC?

"Truth" it was very clearly your misunderstanding and it was as well one very strange one. Four questions come to mind in relation to that major error on your part. Are you taking any drugs? Are you an alcoholic? Are you a special person? Do you really care about what you are doing? I am not trying to make fun of you "truth" in asking these questions. The way you prepare your text and the manner you respond to questions is totally irresponsible. My impression is it is you who are lying about everything you say!!! And my opinion is that that you are not motivated by anyting having to do with religion!!!

posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 07:37 PM
TC am speaking specifically of when I signed on as Triad 01/2/2002 at the old board. TC I do not dislike you but you behavior has not indicated you are fair and impartial.

"Truth" I am an American Indian, raised in the ways of a culture. Who acknowledges the Presence of Jesus in the Western Hemisphere, after his death and Resurrection. To us he restored the old ways and was an incredible mystic and
prophet. He is known to us as the Son of God

I am not a Mormon "Truth" what I am is Taino before then we were known as Arawaks and before that Toltecas.

[Edited on 23-10-2002 by Toltec]

posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 08:55 PM
stewaard, i know. I do love toltecs soul to death and that why i cant give up on him
nor any of these souls.

toltec i was tlaking about the reply called..

""61 NT inconsistancies ""

that opened up attacks by people craving for an attack on my post. why couldnt you
just of left it alone?

my spelling is horrible?

This is not a spelling b, and you can understand cant you?

brains don't mean a thing.

triad i will give you my phone number to prove to you the things im
saying that i went through are true. Ill let you talk to my family members that
have seen what ive went through if you want.

literally, seriously.

Do you want it?

You do not know me, so dont say im a man not driven by religious motive.

this motive is gods revelation to me and i cannot reject it.


posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 11:18 PM

If you had read in its entirety the whole document, you have noted certain very interesting things. Such as the Lords prayer referred to in the Talmud. This is a serious work written by people who believe that religion can and has been
abused as a means to generate separatist ethics among the masses. My impression is that if you feel this is impossible in respect to Christianity you are being foolish.

Separatist Ethics which you clearly accept as valid and I clearly accept as wrong.

No, often I do not understand what you are saying. There are plenty of ways to overcome whatever problem you have. This in relations to communicating yourself with written text. There are word processor programs as well as more sophisticated programs such as Microsoft word.

Your position on the Vatican Assembly (Vatican 1) is offensive, mostly because of family issues (something I am prepared to overcome as well as is my family and only because of there faith in reincarnation). Your position on the Popes effort to establish a rapport with alternative systems of belief, to be honest, makes me very sad. The bible is a book, written by people who felt they were motivated by God. To some extent they were correct and that extent is representable in other systems of belief. And that you choose to deny that (beyond any shadow of doubt), for me raises questions. Questions about your motivations in relation to peace.

I cannot reject what I feel and believe either. It is to me as important and relevant to human survival, as you apparently feel, what you believe is to you. And I cannot reject the intent as represented to me it is the result of love for souls.

"Truth" there is no reason for you to give me your phone number. In fact it is behooves me to inform you that whatever you have to say to me, here is the best in this place. 200 years ago your kind would have found great pleasure, in killing my kind (in the worst possible way). Do not think that then the feeling was mutual amongst the Taino.

There are of course other reasons, this related to this venue. And as well the financial value a phone number can bring to a hacker (its really not a good idea).

If you are really interested in understanding me read on:
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Re: appreciation
Posted By: Juan
Date: Thursday, 10 October 2002, at 6:05 p.m.

In Response To: Re: appreciation (Marty)

Marty how many years have you spent learning about alternative belief systems to Christianity? What qualifies you to know the difference between a lie and a truth?

This country became more aware of its problems when in began applying technology. It became easier to make people accountable for there actions. Yes, this country was founded on a moral imperative, but that moral imperative is a not exclusive parameter of one culture. Our Nations founders started this country after a war. And within a 100 years fought two others, one to maintain herself as a country. And the other to free the rest of this Hemisphere from the control of the Spanish. The Spanish cared nothing about how people were treated, they were interested only in collecting Taxes. How the people were treated was the decision of the Vatican Assembly.

100 years is not a long time in relation to political circles, what you refer to as the founders of this nation those families, maintained influence and were part of the decision making process. So the question is why would the United States of America fight a war which ultimately would destroy the Vatican empire? It was not to take control of these territories and place its leadership over the Hemisphere, because they did not do that. Was it because the abuse was of to such an extent and evidence was so clear that they could not in all conscience allow it to continue. You know what, as far as I know that was the answer.

This country did not deny assistance nor did it react negatively to the implications that many of the people who were being tortured and killed believed in Shamanism. The fact of the matter is the Vatican Assembly was not engaged in torturing and killing there devout followers. This country was not concerned as to what repercussions would follow for destroying the Vatican's last stronghold in the world (i.e....God). They only saw the pain and horror and did something to stop it and then did not demand absolute control.

So what was it Marty that made this country decide to come to the aid of what you called devil worshipers? Why should Shamans and those who follow such methodologies merit such respect? Perhaps it is because those leaders learned something from one or some of its representatives. This being that they shared the same moral imperatives. Something they apparently did not feel they shared with those they went to war with.

You seem to want very much for others to understand the difference between truth and lies. But in my opinion you will never understand what truth is to me, unless you have walked for a day in my moccasins. There is no difference to me between the Vatican Assembly and my people and what Nazi Germany meant to the Jews. And one reason for that Marty is that the standard procedure of the Vatican Empire when entering a new territory was to wipe out the leadership of that territory. The only tribe they tribe to wipe out in the Western Hemisphere was the Taino. By the 1820s there were perhaps 10 families left take a guess as to which one I am from??????????????????????????????????

The word Founder is a name applied to the Indian version of an Angel but it is also a word used to mean King, Leader and one who commences something really great and very good and that is not a lie.

And what are your thoughts?


My father used to say that if you really want something you have to make a sacrifice. As I understand it you want peace? I know in my heart that Jesus is coming soon but realize this, I also know in my hearts as well as in my mind. That the very last time he walked on this earth he spent that time amongst the Toltecas. And it was him who first said the word "Nagual."

What are your thoughts?

posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 11:40 PM
yea butthaats one out of 60 and had nothing
to do with my post about the saints prophecies.

Now you say.

"" 100 years ago your kind would of killed my kind ""

No, you are my kind and your kind is my kind. See
i don't have a kind. i see no backround or race or color.

those who say others do, do themselve, but i see no such things.

My kind don't kill anyone as i condemn killing humans. so my kind is the kind
of peace and human love for individuals.

when will you understand this??

Ive told you over and over that the crusaades and the acts of the church
were acts of hypocrites and not one, not one such teachings
comes from the church but from 'human" ignorance and will.

toltec, jesus is real, hell is real, we will be judged. If i do not proclaim what ive seen
from god then i will suffer punishment when god know i know this is true.

please don't say my kind. My kind is those who live by jesus teachings, his
true teachings. Also im part indian aabout 15% indian.

Those who take the judgement upon their own hands will pay. tell them the truth
about the catholic church aand if they listen so be it, but if they don't so be it.

Its gods choice to judge and condemn. thats what our church teaches.

posted on Oct, 23 2002 @ 12:00 AM
"Truth" states

You do not know whos work you are doing.

If that is the case then stop trying to judge me. You focussed on one issue and ignored the rest. The rest reflective of your lack of respect. That God has the only right to judge, who are you to make the accusation present in quote. "Truth" you have no idea who you are talking to. But be certain to others it is apparent.

My opinion is what you call the church should be taxed by the United States. This because of the sin committed to date. As stated I know Jesus is real and yes we will all be judged this including you "truth." Your kind are responsible for killing billions. And it is you who promulgate that ideal. Your Church teaches that its way is the only way and that is a lie. And the real truth is you help by making that lie seem valid. Personally I feel you are a poor example and representative, of a system of faith which is perceived as valid.

Whoever you are in fact.

The fact of a matter is this what you have written to date is pathetic.

[Edited on 23-10-2002 by Toltec]

posted on Oct, 23 2002 @ 12:08 AM
my kind are not responsible for killing human beings.

My kind are the kind who live by jesus true teachins.

I condemn killing. My kind also condemns killing.

what don't you understand about that??

i say the church is true because it is. You don't have to believe but
i will proclaim this.

and god will judge, not me.


posted on Oct, 23 2002 @ 12:12 AM
this will be my last response in this thread.

"" what you have written to date is pathetic ""

only in your mind.

Ill be pleading for you guys when im off of these websites.


posted on Oct, 23 2002 @ 12:23 AM
And who are you that God will not Judge you???????

Those who accept Vatican 1 as valid take into consideration (and accept) what they did. Your post on the current Pope as a sinner for accepting alternative systems of belief as valid is evidence of that discretion (on you part). Personally you seem more and more like a person who lives in New Berlin
. Everything that you have presented to date is an insult to my culture. You ability to represent the interest to moderate Christian ethic simply does not exist. And to be honest that would be the only ethic I would feel is appropriate.

As will all others (humans) you will be judged despite your contention and this I assure you is correct. That you deny this conclusion makes very clear that you are grandiose and perhaps even psychotic. As such this matter is beyond my purview as I only have a masters in Crisis Intervention. Might I suggest you consult a Psychiatrist as they are licensed to address such issues.

posted on Oct, 23 2002 @ 01:03 AM
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Only in my Mind?
Posted By: Juan
Date: Tuesday, 22 October 2002, at 11:00 p.m.
Is a pathway I can seek,
Is a doorway who's lock I can open.

There are as many paths
as there are people.

Only God known his intent.

Judge not what is only in my mind!!!!
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Go Figure.........

[Edited on 23-10-2002 by Toltec]

posted on Oct, 23 2002 @ 01:56 AM
Thank you Theyre here for your support. TC there really is nothing (from my point of view) that I feel falls under the auspices of being personal (with exception of the matter of you denying Chicago style as valid).

"Truth"/guess who, you need to grow up dude big time and sugest you get a life beyond stalking . Would suggest 100 hail marries and the lords prayer at least five times a week for the rest of your life. But what the hell do you know about the Talmud. To all present, please excuse my indulgence. But it would seem apparent that this post has a value all to its own.

Simon or for that matter Richard I only have one question at this point. Does The Idea Of God Play A Pivotable Role In The Conspiracy?

As this thread bears my handle I feel it is appropriate to end it with this one conclusion. Thomas Jefferson once said that it does not matter if one believes in one God or 20, the question is what is there intent in relation to the survival of this country?

What are your thoughts?

The attached is related to the Taino Indian Culture.


posted on Oct, 23 2002 @ 04:36 PM

I do thankyou and fully understand what you have wrote here.

I will always appreciate advice from a ATS veteren like yourself and as a newbie I found it most helpful.

I will say though that I will respect the fact that people have the free will to believe what they wish, but not what they believe. That does not mean that I am prepared to offend them, no quite the opposite.

But, and if a satanist does strongly shun what I believe to the point that it may seem we could never agree on anything concerning beliefs, then thats o.k, I'II just treat him as a friend all the same. (because if i did'nt how can i call myself a christian)


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