Bush declares war on freedom of the press

Just out of interest, Grady, WestPoint et al -

In what terms would you regard the anti establishment press and journalists that exist, however briefly, in truly repressive regimes? North Korea, Iran, DRC... even China?

Are their exposes of government operations against the people to be considered traitorous, or heroic?

Where is the line there, and who gets to make it?

Sorry, but this deserves a new post;


Is that the real ultra_phoenix online?!?

Holy crap! Where have you been?

Good to see you back posting!

I still completely disagree with you.

[edit on 11-3-2006 by kegs]

Originally posted by kegs
In what terms would you regard the anti establishment press and journalists that exist, however briefly, in truly repressive regimes? North Korea, Iran, DRC... even China?

Are their exposes of government operations against the people to be considered traitorous, or heroic?

Where is the line there, and who gets to make it?

Sorry, kegs, I'm not going into hypotheticals on this issue. With regards to the United States, the answer lies in the statutes. When Daniel Elsberg got off with less than a slap on the wrist, it set a bad tone for national security. It's time to set that matter straight.

Sorry, kegs, I'm not going into hypotheticals on this issue. With regards to the United States, the answer lies in the statutes. When Daniel Elsberg got off with less than a slap on the wrist, it set a bad tone for national security. It's time to set that matter straight.

Dont worry about the press it's corupt any way, those are just a few examples that wants to bring the reality of things but they dont got a chance over all, so in the end you get u'r wish, no one finds out anithing from the press, thank god for the internet.
It means they dont have to go to the press, they will just spill it on the internet.
I think the way you think promotes hate torwards this site whitch is in fact for disclosure of iligal things done by the goverment.
Hmm you argue about the free press(you got that flag as u'r own national security cover )and you put everything behind it hideing it, who knows maybe next you will be arguing about ATS and what is printed here, if an article which is published here on ats proves to be true and it represents something done iligaly by the goverment covered up with national security and then you blame the ATS staff then I dont see how you are compatible with ATS.
Let's see, north corea has an act like national security, people expose it all the time and then run away over the border, well they broke the law, should they not be treated like criminals?
I think you promote blind folds and hand cufs all you need is a little power and we would see the true you.



[edit on 11-3-2006 by pepsi78]

Everyone's wrong, and right. In a way people should know about this domestic spying program - isn't that illegal in it's own right?
But at the same time people should never leak classified information.

I especially liked his George Orwell remark at the end, that sadly is very true..

MSNBC has more about the penalties that will be issued against people who speak out about the crimes committed buy the Bush white house.

Analysts: Provisions make reporting on government surveillance illegal

Snip ~~
The Associated Press obtained a copy of the draft of the legislation, which could be introduced as soon as next week.

The draft would add to the criminal penalties for anyone who "intentionally discloses information identifying or describing" the Bush administration's terrorist surveillance program or any other eavesdropping program conducted under a 1978 surveillance law.

Originally posted by kegs
Sorry, but this deserves a new post;


1) Is that the real ultra_phoenix online?!?

2) Holy crap! Where have you been?

3) Good to see you back posting!

4) I still completely disagree with you.

1) Yep.

2) In hell and I'm not kidding.

3) Thank you.

4) How dare you ?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Leaking classified information is illegal first and foremost. Furthermore leaking classified information with National Security implications is very dangerous, especially in a time of war. These “Whistle-blowers” are breaking the law and should be punished accordingly. The President has every right and authority to protect classified documents or programs of the United States.

If what they have to say is for the better of thing then they should report to congress or other investigating bodies instead of going to the NY Times. Reporting to the proper agencies or congress is the right and legal way to deal with such cases, going to the national media is not, you are doing more harm than good by taking such action.

So it was ok to imprison the japanese during wwII because it was time of war and they could have presented a threat to security like "whistle blowers" are?

So it was ok to imprison the japanese during wwII because it was time of war and they could have presented a threat to security like "whistle blowers" are?

When did I ever say that? In fact I have maintained from post one that if someone in the know has something to say then let them do so thought the legal and proper channels. Is that too much to ask for in a case like this?

MSNBC has more about the penalties that will be issued against people who speak out about the crimes committed buy the Bush white house.

Who determines if they are crimes ? Me, you, or John Doe? No sir, it is the congress and the courts. If people wan to report something which they think might be illegal then let them do so to congress.

In what terms would you regard the anti establishment press and journalists that exist, however briefly, in truly repressive regimes? North Korea, Iran, DRC... even China?

They are to be considered heroic because in their situation there are no legal ways, or ways, by which the government can be held accountable or investigated. Thus reporting this news however illegal is justifiable.
Now, we live in the United States of America where we have courts and congress to deicide what is illegal and what isn't. If anyone has a legitimate concern then let them go there and let those bodies determine if indeed said act was illegal or not. Since there are these available legal channels for such a case, there is no excuse for going to the national media and leaking classified information. See the difference?

[edit on 11-3-2006 by WestPoint23]

Like I said, you report badly on Bush, you go to Gitmo, you worship the ground he walks on, even AFTER he sells American ports to known terrorists, and lies about why in Iraq twice, and is on vacation so long that he might run in 2008 since he only served about 3 of his eight years in office, and you are rewarded with trillion dollar contract to screw the american people.
NOTICE: Please Review this Link -- The End of Political Baiting and Sniping on ATS

I Apologize and will now edit my original post.

[edit on 11-3-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

[edit on 11-3-2006 by DevinS]

Bush is just sick and tired of the left wing slant of the media and I have to agree with him it is quite simply sickening.

It is time that political leaders stood-up against the media which throws its weight around to get what they want, the owners of the media that is.

DevinS

Is that what you have to say? Instead of posting something worthwhile to the topic you attack Grady and me? Sorry but baiting and unintelligent posts aren't going to get you anywhere, being better informed however, will.

Devin your last post was uncalled for. WestPoint and Grady are well thought of by the vast majority of ATS members--and for very good reasons. Neither is inclined to open his mouth without doing research and/or having personal knowledge of something. When they do post, the words are crafted with care for the facts, and with consideration for the feelings of others. You would be wise to either retract that post or apologize to the two gentlemen.

Originally posted by Astronomer68
Devin your last post was uncalled for. WestPoint and Grady are well thought of by the vast majority of ATS members--and for very good reasons. Neither is inclined to open his mouth without doing research and/or having personal knowledge of something. When they do post, the words are crafted with care for the facts, and with consideration for the feelings of others. You would be wise to either retract that post or apologize to the two gentlemen.

Why apologize? I dont see a personal attack there and I tend to agree with his statement. Just because someone does research or has personal knowledge of something doesnt make them right.

The words Devin used constituted an oblique attack on the credibility of the two gentlemen. Look at the words preceding & following to see the negative connotations that were set up. Futhermore lecter you could probably count on one hand all the mis-statements of fact either of those two have ever made on ATS. Just because you may personally disagree with their statements certainly does not make their statements wrong.

[edit on 11-3-2006 by Astronomer68]

Just because somebody is a democrat does mean the following is true:

- Bush is always wrong
- Bush has a lower IQ than I have
- Bush is the scurvy of the world
- Bush will mean the end of the much vaunted lefties of the world

Now back to the topic at hand;

Why is it that left-leaning people do not see the pack mentality of the media and its BIAS towards their views and values? I find this simply amazing folks!

Like denythestatusquo stated, back to the topic.

And, for anyone who needs a refresher course in board civility:
NOTICE: Please Review this Link -- The End of Political Baiting and Sniping on ATS

And, DevonS for the apology.


[edit on 11-3-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by denythestatusquo

Now back to the topic at hand;

Why is it that left-leaning people do not see the pack mentality of the media and its BIAS towards their views and values? I find this simply amazing folks!

For the same reason right-wing peoples wouldn't admit medias a right-wing biased if media were really right-wing biased.
So our little commies friends won't never admit media are biased in their favor otherwise they will risk to lose a valuable weapon.

Can you imagine the US giving the A-BOMB to the jap in 1945 just because it's an unfair advantage to have such weapon if your opponent doesn't have it also ? Same idea here with the medias and the leftist unable to admit medias are left biased.

I've always told it. Just look at FOX and let down all the others tv media. This was my unbiased point of view.

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
I've always told it. Just look at FOX and let down all the others tv media. This was my unbiased point of view.

Well I for one don't trust FOX at all, since they spent 6 months manufacturing LIES about my island...

And furthermore I'd say drop all mainstream media... They've all but ignored the economic crisis that has a good chance of coming in the near future, based on the hyperinflation of money by the federal reserve, the upcoming Iraq oil bourse and other stuff...