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Different Lodges in Masonry

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posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 11:21 PM
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My grandfather is (well, was) a highranking 32 degree Scottishrite FreeMason. He said that their particular belief in religion, was that all of thembring your soul closer to enlightenment (when done right and peacefully) and that all religions (past, present, and future) all have the same core.

He also said that the Yorkrite was mainly christian (although not your average crazy fundamentalist. he said they were more towards the mystic or gnostic side).

Do all of the different Lodges adhere to their own kind of specification?

Just curious.




posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 06:27 AM
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Hi AD

A lodge will adhere to the philosophy and tenets of the jurisdiction to which it subscribes, and each jurisdiction is governed by a Grand Lodge. All Grand Lodges which are 'regular' subscribe to a core set of values which can be summarized here.

There are irregular jurisdictions as well, which deviate from regular freemasony by differing degrees (like the pun?), some of which are quite philosophical in nature.

However, within each lodge every freemason is encouraged to find his own path. Some, like Manly Hall, tread a very philosophical one. This is possible because freemasonry doesn't determine the nature of the path, just that there should be one. For some spit-roasting brethren (in the UK we call them knife-and-fork masons) this journey is fairly shallow



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 06:46 AM
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Like Trinityman said not all espouse to a certain set of beliefs. My lodge is extremely philosophical and esoteric in its lectures, while another lodge that meets in my same building (masons meet AS a lodge not IN a lodge) are more interested in such ideas as brotherhood. Although I have heard that Brothers of the York rite tend to be more often Christian. My lodge maintains the Bible, Torah, Talmud, Koran, and Baghavadgita (spelling?) all on our altar, it is really up to the lodge.



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 08:13 AM
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could one of you 'freemasons' tell me if the chart below is accurate? I am aware the masons are told to spread false disinformation with non members but i'll give it ago.




posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by lifttheveil
could one of you 'freemasons' tell me if the chart below is accurate?


Yes, the chart is accurate.


I am aware the masons are told to spread false disinformation with non members but i'll give it ago.


Your "awareness" on this subject is deficient. Masons are NOT told to "spread false disinformation" (the anti-Masons do it quite well, though). Instead, Masons take vows to live by the Cardinal Virtues, one of which is Truth.



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by Arcane Demesne
My grandfather is (well, was) a highranking 32 degree Scottishrite FreeMason. He said that their particular belief in religion, was that all of thembring your soul closer to enlightenment (when done right and peacefully) and that all religions (past, present, and future) all have the same core.


Those teachings are not found in the Scottish Rite. The Scottish Rite does investigate the teachings of various world religions and philosophies, but neither confirms or denies the truth of any of them, outside of basic teachings on morality and ethics, which most of the religions agree upon.


He also said that the Yorkrite was mainly christian (although not your average crazy fundamentalist. he said they were more towards the mystic or gnostic side).


In the York Rite, the Order of Knights Templar accepts only Christians, as the original order did. The Order is neither Gnostic, Roman Catholic, or Presbyterian. It is simply a degree of chivalry that, according to historical research, seems to have been instituted in Masonry in the late 1720's.


Do all of the different Lodges adhere to their own kind of specification?


All Lodges follow the rules and regulations of their Grand Lodges. Most Grand Lodges have approved a standarized ritual that must be used in Lodges under its jurisdiction without deviation.



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 09:06 AM
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Not meaning to offend but that was how I understood it.
I am not knocking you in any way at all, I have no fondness of The Freemasons from knowledge I have learned about them, however I do not live in a 'shell' and would not be small minded enough to tar all masons with the same brush! I know a mason who I have known for a long time, a good man, I only found out he was a mason recently!

It is true that most Masons are not told the truth, it all depends on their level. I believe the way this is worded to low rank freemasons is that they are not yet told the 'secrets', but if by not telling you the secrets and replacing those facts with fiction are they not lying to the lowere members?

Regards

Lifttheveil

In regards to my pic, could someone confirm or point out the errors in the chart.
I am curious as to the 'two paths' to the top of the pyramid, and how they vary!



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by lifttheveil
Not meaning to offend but that was how I understood it.


No offense taken. I realize that anti-Masonic propaganda has largely contributed to the public's misunderstandings of Freemasonry. However, it is also important to keep in mind that we shouldn't claim hearsay as knowledge, especially when coming from a biased source.



It is true that most Masons are not told the truth, it all depends on their level.


How do you know this is "true"? To begin with, there's no such thing as "levels": this is the invention of the anti-Masons. There are degrees, not levels, and truth is found in each of them.


I believe the way this is worded to low rank freemasons is that they are not yet told the 'secrets', but if by not telling you the secrets and replacing those facts with fiction are they not lying to the lowere members?


In Freemasonry there are no "lower members" (another invention of the anti-Masons). All Masons are equal in the Lodge. Each member has a voice and a vote in all proceedings of the Lodge. Masonic government, which is called Grand Lodge, is a democracy. The Grand Lodge Officers serve the terms of office they were elected for, then return to the sidelines when replaced by new officers at the next election.


In regards to my pic, could someone confirm or point out the errors in the chart.
I am curious as to the 'two paths' to the top of the pyramid, and how they vary!


The chart is basically accurate. It shows the three degrees of Ancient Craft Masonry, which make one a Master Mason. These degrees are the oldest and most important.

However, over time, it was seen that additional degrees could be useful. A lot of teachings are crammed in the first three degrees. In a 90 minute-long initiation ceremony, there isn't enough time to give each teaching or symbol proper space to explain it in full. Therefore, the Scottish Rite and the upper degrees of the York Rite were created in order to elaborate more fully on the teachings and symbols of the first three degrees. These "higher degrees" do not make one more of a Mason than he already is. They can, however, make him a better Mason.



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 09:42 AM
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I just think it's human nature to fear what you know nothing about,comming from a family of Mason's and I being one as well ,am suprised at what I've heard,don't remember anything of this nature



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 09:55 AM
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Thank you for your reply.

As you aware I have my beliefs, but, having never been a Mason, I know of nothing first hand. I have only ever been in a masonic lodge twice, both briefly and both at The Stockport Lodge on the A6. I was accompanied and didn't see much of the building but the large room with the all seeing eye in pyramid design on the floor (marble floor if I remember rightly) kind of left an impression.

To be honest, I wasn't expecting a positive reply back. That may be down to my biased opinions which I admit. I wonder if you would mind if I asked a few more questions? The subject of The Illuminati and Freemasons has took up a lot of my life lately. I don't mean to bombard you with questions but having a dialogue with a mason would be good, and give a bit of balance for all the masonic talk I have with conspiracy theorists. After all, we can't make decisions in life based on one side of the story. I may have my opinions but I am in real search of the TRUTH wheter I like the answer or not.

Regards

Lifttheveil



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 10:00 AM
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The degree system on the diagram is correct except it misrepresents the importance of the various degrees. Once one reaches a Third Degree Master Mason, he is the highest degree and is held in the same regard whether he is 32nd Scottish Rite or a Knights Templar (a VERY common misperception.) The York Rite also eschews the importance of the appendant bodies of the York Rite, they are all on the same level just eaching different aspects of Masonic tradition. Royal Arch or Knight Templar, same level (although some Mason's that are really into their York Rite Appendant Body might tell you otherwise.)



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 10:04 AM
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There possibly are some relations to the short-lived Bavarian Illuminati but that is the nature of the beast, you can't really prove the connection. Both groups commitment to Liberalism is a good place to start. Now if you are referring to the "Illuminati" in the NWO sense then I can't help you as I think it's a bunch of conspiratorial garbage. But then again I'm a Mason so I doubt I'll be taken seriously on that. Some might respond harshly to your questions, but I love answering questions about my experiences with Freemasonry and similar subjects, so ask away.



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 10:18 AM
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Cheers.

And thanks for the invite of questions. If my questions get out of line let me know. I know to avoid certain questions that may get peoples 'goat' up!

So a 3rd degree mason is allowed the same knowledge as a 32nd?

When you say the pyramid structure idea is for conspiracy theorists and that degrees of masonry are not levels of authority, rather they are different parts of freemasonry, how does that work?

If you start at 1st degree and finish at 33rd degree then surely one is above another and ever closer to the top?

Lifttheveil



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by lifttheveil
The subject of The Illuminati and Freemasons has took up a lot of my life lately.


The actual historical Illuminati was formed in Bavaria, now a German province, in 1776. Although its history is sometimes obscure, it originated with Dr. Adam Weishaupt, a professor of law at Ingolstadt University. Both the university and the Bavarian government were at the time controlled by Jesuits, and it was illegal to teach anything contradictory to the Roman Catholic Church and Society of Jesus.

Weishaupt, a Deist, was teaching liberalism, which got him fired. Some of his students protested, which got them expelled. The local intelligentsia supported Weishaupt because they viewed his being silenced as a violation of his natural rights. His supporters secretly gave him their allegiance, and the Illuminati was formed.

The outward goal of the Illuminati was to spread the teachings of Liberalism and the Enlightenment (which is where they got their name). Their inner goal was to replace the Bavarian dictatorship with a constitutional democracy, similar to what was going on in the American colonies.

Before long, the Illuminati was infiltrated by the Bavarian secret police. Many members were arrested, but Weishaupt fled into exile. It was then that the Church began launching its anti-Illuminati propaganda, which still exists today with conspiracy theorists. The objective of course being to make fear the Illuminati instead of support them, which they probably otherwise would have done.

The Illuminati's ties to Masonry came when Weishaupt joined a Masonic Lodge in Bavaria hoping to recruit Masons for his own Order. The local Masons were generally sympathetic to the Illuminati, but had no desire to start a civil war. They basically patted Weishaupt on the back, said "Good luck", and that was the end of it.

When Weishaupt devised a degree system for the Illuminati, he made the first three degrees of Masonry the Illuminati's 4th, 5th, and 6th degrees.

Later in life, Weishaupt published his memoires "In Defense of Illuminism", where he declared his innocence against the many charges (some so ridiculous as to be laughable) made against him by the Church. By that time, the Church had succeeded in its fear-mongering, and no one except the Enlightenment intellectuals were willing to listen to Weishaupt's side. Unfortunately, this is often still the case.



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 10:36 AM
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Yes that is what I am getting at regarding authority, a 3rd degree has the same level of authority in a Grand Lodge as a 32nd Degree. 33rd Degrees, because they are bestowed to non-Masons, really aren't held in higher regard; it is basically an honor for community service or other similar positive activity. Basically each degree is a lesson that expands upon your first 3 degrees (Blue Lodge) it is not moving up in ranks in a physical sense, but moving up in your quest for the amibiguous term "enlightenment."



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by lifttheveil

So a 3rd degree mason is allowed the same knowledge as a 32nd?


This would depend upon what you mean by "knowledge". All the degrees of the Scottish Rite, from the 4th to the 32nd, are elaborations in some way on the first three degrees. Freemasonry does not claim to possess any special knowledge that is not available to the general public. We simply compile the teachings of various philosophies and present them in dramatic form via the degrees.


When you say the pyramid structure idea is for conspiracy theorists and that degrees of masonry are not levels of authority, rather they are different parts of freemasonry, how does that work?


Masonic authority comes from being elected to serve as on officer either in Lodge or Grand Lodge. This happens irrespective of any additional degrees one may possess above the Third Degree. The degrees are our method of communicating philosophy, not for conferring rank or authority.


If you start at 1st degree and finish at 33rd degree then surely one is above another and ever closer to the top?


Consider a rope 33 feet long, and another 3 feet long. The 33 feet rope is not "higher" than the other. The "top" of Masonry is the Grand Lodge. It is a representative organization. Each Lodge may send three representatives to Grand Lodge, who are voting members of Grand Lodge. The voting members of Grand Lodge elect Grand Lodge Officers from Past Masters within the jurisdiction. The only degree requirement for any Grand Lodge office is Third Degree; however, one must also be a Past Master of his Mother Lodge.



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by Baphomet79
33rd Degrees, because they are bestowed to non-Masons, really aren't held in higher regard;


I am curious as to which jurisdiction practices this. Here in the Mother Jurisdiction, Southern Jurisdiction USA, the 33° can only be conferred upon 32° Knights Commander of the Court of Honour in good standing. In the Mother Jurisdiction, no degree of the Scottish Rite can ever be conferred on someone who is not a regular Master Mason in good standing.



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 10:54 AM
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Masonic Light is correct, by knowledge I meant that each degree beyond the 3rd degree elaborates on the first 3, the first 3 can be pretty overwhelming and a bit difficult to take in all at once.



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 11:34 AM
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Excellent Post!

"Quote"
The Illuminati's ties to Masonry came when Weishaupt joined a Masonic Lodge in Bavaria hoping to recruit Masons for his own Order. The local Masons were generally sympathetic to the Illuminati, but had no desire to start a civil war. They basically patted Weishaupt on the back, said "Good luck", and that was the end of it.

OK, we both agree Weishaupt formed the illuminati.

And the illuminati symbol is the pyramid and all seeing eye, the motto is Novus Ordo Seclorum, ie new world order.

The symbol of the Illuminati is, and has been since the late 1700s, the pyramid with the "all seeing eye" in the capstone. You can find this symbol on every One Dollar bill. Around it are the words "Novus Ordo Seclorum" which means a "new order shall emerge". In other words, our dollar bill glorifies the idea of a New World Order.

Questions
Who is behind the symbol on the dollar?
What is the connection of the symbol and todays freemasons? The symbol represents the masons and is used by them. Why?


[edit on 7-3-2006 by lifttheveil]



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by lifttheveil


OK, we both agree Weishaupt formed the illuminati.


Yes. It's never been in dispute that Weishaupt founded the group. Originally, it was just himself and some of his students. Eventually, the middle class intellectuals also threw him support.


And the illuminati symbol is the pyramid and all seeing eye, the motto is Novus Ordo Seclorum, ie new world order.


Actually, that is a popular myth, but is lacking in facts. There is no evidence that the Illuminati ever used the All Seeing Eye as a symbol (although it was, and still is, a Masonic symbol). Furthermore, their motto was not "Novus Ordo Seclorum" (which means "New Order For The Ages"). "Novus Ordo Seclorum" is actually a line from a poem by Virgil, an ancient Roman poet, and was adopted as a motto by our own forefathers here in the US, not by the Illuminati.


The symbol of the Illuminati is, and has been since the late 1700s, the pyramid with the "all seeing eye" in the capstone. You can find this symbol on every One Dollar bill. Around it are the words "Novus Ordo Seclorum" which means a "new order shall emerge". In other words, our dollar bill glorifies the idea of a New World Order.


Again, the Illuminati did not use a pyramid or All Seeing Eye as a symbol. The symbol is masonic, not Illuminist. Secondly, "Novus Ordo Seclorum" refers to democracy: our forefathers believed that the tyranny of kings was at an end, and that it would be replaced by constitutional democracies like the one they themselves were creating. This new type of freedom and liberty would be "a new order for the ages".


Questions
Who is behind the symbol on the dollar?


A Congressional Committee was formed in 1786 in order to present a Great Seal of the United States. Only one of the committee's members, Benjamin Franklin, was a Mason. The one which was later adopted (the one on the back of the $1 note) was created by the non-Mason members of the committee. Franklin's design was completely different.


What is the connection of the symbol and todays freemasons? The symbol represents the masons and is used by them. Why?


In Masonry, the All Seeing Eye is symbolic of the omnipresence of God, that He is always here with us, and sees everything. The Masonic lecture in the Third Degree, in explaining the symbol, says in part: "...and although our thougts and actions may be hidden from the eyes of men, that All Seeing Eye, whom the sun, moon, and stars obey, and under whose direction even the comets perform their majestic orbits, penetrates the inmost recesses of the human heart, and will reward us according to our merit."



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