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F-14 Tomcat: Everyones Favourite Fighter?

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posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 12:30 PM
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Well, I do like the F-14... it is a nice fighter... but you all know that I think that the F/A-18 looks the best...


And yes... The Blackbird isn't stealthy... It was designed purely to go fast... take a look a it... it doesn't repell a single radar wawe...




posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 03:25 PM
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One of the original design changes from the A-11, which was a finalized design, to the A-12 (and the YF-12 and RS-71, yes, RS-71) was the addition of radar mitigation elements: the chines, which incorporated RAM sandwich materials in the triangular segments of the substruture, the inward-canted vertical stabilizers and the use of composites and ferric paint to reduce returns. The D-21 drone was able to take these elements further, due to its size, the lack of provisions for humans and advances in RAM composites in the years between the start of Oxcart and Tagboard.

On the topic at hand...

Few realize that the F-14 was designed as a strike-fighter interceptor from the beginning. In addition to the AWG-9 radar and the AIM-54 missiles developed from the YF-12, F6D and YF-108 programs, the aircraft was to have a limited air-to-ground role. That role, along with the Navy's participation in the Derivative Fighter Engine program (which produced the F101 for the F-15) were killed by SecDef Elliot Richardson and again by Harold Brown. Few realize that the TF30 engine was only supposed to be a stopgap through the 9th pre-production aircraft. Instead, the Tomcat was saddled with a terrible, unreliable engine until the late 1980s.

Once the Tomcat had finally received the Air-To-Ground software upgrade (every single Tomcat was built with the A/G wiring in place), the aircraft demonstrated a ground attack proficiency that rivaled the F/A-18, but had the advantages of longer unrefuelled range, longer loiter times over targets and a more lethal defensive capability with a bomb load. The addition of LANTIRN in 1998 made the Tomcat a more potent precision A/G platform than the F/A-18A/C, which was unable to self-designate without sacrificing payload and lacked the ability to recover aboard the carrier with more than two Mk82 500lb (or one Mk83 1000lb) bombs aboard a carrier.

As for it's air-to-air abilities, the Tomcat's low wing loading, combined with the F-14D's F110 engines made Grumman's last fighter unbeatable against all but the most modern 5th Generation fighters. F-14D's flown against NFWS and NSWAC aggressors, including F-16N's, F-5's, A-4's, F-21's and F/A-18's showed levels of maneuverability that were unbelievable, given the Tomcat's size. Furthermore, F110-powered F-14B's and D's possessed an incredible delta-Vee capability, at cruise, while retaining long loiter abilities over targets and on CAPs.

The argument that the Tomcat's only talent was as a missile platform is predominantly advanced by members of the Navy and the civilian leadership who preferred a smaller, less effective, shorter-legged option that many believed would be less expensive – the F/A-18 – which has been a disappointment from the start... an expensive disappointment.

Furthermore, when the Navy withdrew its interest in a naval ATF, Grumman offered to restart the F-14 production line on a redesigned, upgraded 'Tomcat 21' priced at $40 million (FY1991 dollars) for 233 new-build and $21 million for 257 remanufactured F-14B/D models. the Navy balked at the price projections, instead choosing McDonnell Douglas' proposal for an updated/fixed F/A-18 for a fly-away cost of $23 million (FY1993) per aircraft. That "updated" Hornet recently entered the fleet, with less than 8% commonality between the F/A-18A/B/C/D and the F/A-18E/F, at a fly-away cost of approximately $60 million (FY2003), and still less range and bring-back than the F-14D which it is replacing. Not to mention the loss of the most heavily-used tactical reconnaissance platform of both Allied Force, OEF and OIF with the retirement of TARPS. There is no comparable operational system on the Super Hornet?

And, lastly, for why the F-14 doesn't possess stealth characteristics, two reasons: 1) it wasn't necessary or feasible when the aircraft was designed in 1968 and 2) the maintenance of RAM materials in a marine environment posed an extreme challenge until material breakthroughs in the mid-1990s (part of the reason that the F-117N never materialized and a partial explanation as to why the disastrous A-12 Avenger II/'Dorito' program cost nearly $5 billion and never even produced an airplane).



posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 12:45 PM
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Wonder how long the Iranians will keep the F-14 Tomcat? Anyway here are some nice F-14 images.

www.au.af.mil...

Does this one really exist?
www.jimbrooks.org...

www.voodoo.cz...

www.yellowairplane.com...

Nice sight!
www.mipagina.cantv.net...

www.military.cz...

The only substitute for a Tomcat
www.ilexikon.com...







[edit on 9-3-2006 by Browno]



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 01:35 AM
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good question Browno, to answer that it will be in service probably till 2015. But because its that long is the reason for us to re-engineer it which we are very close into doing
.







[edit on 11-3-2006 by Mehran]

[edit on 11-3-2006 by Mehran]



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 04:09 AM
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Originally posted by waynos
A lot of these 'stealth' claims have been retrospectively applied to the Blackbird by people basically looking at it and drawing their own conclusions. If there was any stealth design applied to the aircraft then it failed utterly because my mate has tracked it on radar for the RAF many times and it is the one of the easiest planes to track, only the B-52 is easier (apart from transports and the like). At least that is what he tells me. he says its as hard to see as a flare at midnight, lol. He is not given to gratuitous slating either, as he put it "seeing it coming is one thing, easy peasy, doing something about it is another matter".

As I said ,high and fast. It is obvious that the performance parameters of the SR-71 are incompatible with stealth technology, and they CERTAINLY were in 1959! Again, look at the F-117 - that was designed for stealth in the 1970's.

[edit on 7-3-2006 by waynos]


This is absolutely correct. The SR-71 is not in any way "stealthy" and even today the technology simply does not exist to make a mach 3 aircraft even slightly "stealthy". IR alone is enough to see it against the cold blackness of space like a giant meteor.

Just because its black doesnt mean its stealth.



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 05:23 PM
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As far as I know the 3 seater tomcat was an internet hoax made by some crafty photoshop wizz, it has been discussed here on ATS somewhere.

The Tomcat is indeed a good looking aircraft, and the "Super Bug" is not too bad, it almost looks like a Tomcat with it's 2 seater configuration.

But ofcourse nothing can beat the looks of the Tomcat, the Swing Wings, the sheer size...may it live for a while longer in the hands of the Iranians even though they are not so popular at the moment.



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 06:50 PM
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Who has some informations about simulative dogfight of F-15 with F-14 in early years? please help to give some links or tell me some details about it. It is the best to even give me a video. thanks!



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 07:42 PM
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The F14 would never dogfight an F15. A dogfight implies an up close encounter and in such the F14 would be at a serious disadvantage. However, the radar on the F14 would see the F15 quite some time before the F15 could see it and during that time difference the F14 could get off a phoenix missile and take the F15 out before it ever got within dogfight range.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 03:21 PM
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For anyone interested tonight @ 10PM the history channel will be playing a modern marvels episode about the F-14 Tomcat



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by orca71
This is absolutely correct. The SR-71 is not in any way "stealthy" and even today the technology simply does not exist to make a mach 3 aircraft even slightly "stealthy". IR alone is enough to see it against the cold blackness of space like a giant meteor.

Just because its black doesnt mean its stealth.



Maybe today it's not stealthy but wikipedia would leead me to believe it was harder to see on radar than other aircraft of the time, but maybe not?

"he SR-71 was one of the first aircraft to be shaped to have an extremely low radar signature."

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 03:39 PM
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Re SR-71 stealthing.

according to Ben Rich's book "Kunk Works":
"The Defense Department's Advanced Reaserch Prodjects Agency has invited Northrup, McDonnell Douglas, and three other companies to compete on building a stealthy airplane. They're getting a million bucks each to come up with a proof of concept design, trying to acheive the lowest radar signatures across all the frequencies. If one works, the winner builds two demonstration airplanes. This is right up our alley and we are being locked out in the cold."
"Kelly Johnson received permission from the CIA to share the previously highly classified radar-cross-section test results on the SR-71/A-12, which was sent to Dr. George Heilmeier, the head of DARPA, together with a formal request to enter the stealth compitition."
- From www.f-117a.com...

That implies that the SR-71 was lockheed's reason for being ahead of most manufacturers when it came to understanding stealth. Elsewhere, it is generally said that early attempts at RAM where used on the SR-71.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 03:47 PM
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I think the F-14 was a mediocre aircraft for most of its career in terms of performance and looks, but it was good for the role it was originally intended (fleet defense). I never really cared for its general appearance as a fighter, but it was one of the best looking tandem two-seaters I've seen.

I like the clean lines of the F-15C, and I suppose I'll always be partial to that aircraft since I was a Crew Chief on 81-0025 at Langley AFB, VA for a couple years!



posted on Mar, 25 2006 @ 06:35 AM
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The F14 has one advantage over the F15 in a dogfight. It can turn just as fast as a F16. The F15 however has a faster rate of roll. If the F14 has Phoenix missles then the F15 would need to use some kind of tactic to defeat this. The F15 only has a chance if it gets in Amraam range which is 50 km. While the Phoenix has scored hits of up to 200 km.



posted on Mar, 25 2006 @ 10:19 AM
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The F15 only has a chance if it gets in Amraam range which is 50 km. While the Phoenix has scored hits of up to 200 km.


Umm... I seriously doubt any Phoenix missile has hit a target from 124 miles away, in fact even the Aim-54C didn't have a range of 124 miles. And the Aim-120 has quite bit more range then the 31 miles you’re giving it.



posted on Mar, 25 2006 @ 11:12 PM
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The longest actual shoot down by a phoenix fired from an F-14 that I'm aware of is 89 nautical miles. They may have tested it on out to 100 nm or so, but I'm talking about an actual combat shoot.



posted on Mar, 25 2006 @ 11:15 PM
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The SR-71 used many features to make it stealthier. They put lead in the leading edges, the shape itself gave it a lower head on, or aft on radar cross section, and several other things were done. It had a much lower cross section than most other planes smaller than it.



posted on Mar, 26 2006 @ 07:53 AM
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Hmmm the information i had about the range of the amraam is old. I guess it was the A version not the current C version which has a range of 50-70km. However that is still not as long as the phoenix. While its true it never made a combat hit of 200 km tests have proven it is possible to hit a target which is 200 km away.



posted on Mar, 31 2006 @ 06:21 AM
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Originally posted by Jehosephat
The F-14 was mainly designed to carry the Phoenix Missile, and act as an interceptor for Russian long range bombers carrying nukes.
It's size makes it a less then stellar Fighter Jet which was quickly eclipsed by the USAF F-15 in performance and abilites.


I couldn't Disagree More! The F-14 was truly an awsome fighter. How did you reach the conclusion that the F-14 was quickly eclipes by the F-15? The F-14 has some capabilities an Eagle pilot could only dream of: 50+ miles BVR engagement capibility, the ability to track 24 individual targets, ability to engage six aircraft simaltaniously.

What are these areas where the F-15 quickly surpassed the F-14? You were jokeing, right?


Tim



posted on Mar, 31 2006 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Did the people behind the F-14 have no clue of the stealth advancements of the SR-71?




Well, it would make sense, considering that the F-14 was Northrop-Grumman, and the SR-71 was Lockheed Martin.


[edit on 3-31-2006 by Loki]



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 12:20 PM
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The combat record of F-14 Tomcat


Air victories: 134 + 1 missile


09.1980 F-14A (USN) - 1 x F-4E (Iran)
7.09.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Mi-25 (Irak)
14.09.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Su-20 (Irak)
- 1 x MiG-21 (Irak)
23.09.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x MiG-21 (Irak)
- 2 x MiG-23 (Irak)
24.09.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 3 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
5.09.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
- 3 x MiG-23BN (Irak)
2.10.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-23MS (Irak)
12.10.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Su-20 (Irak)
13.10.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-23BN (Irak)
18.10.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x MiG-23BN (Irak)
20.10.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
22.10.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
25.10.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Su-20 (Irak)
26.10.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
29.10.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 4 x MiG-23MLA (Irak)
- 1 x Tu-22B (Irak)
10.11.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-23BN (Irak)
21.11.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21 (Irak)
27.11.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
2.12.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
10.12.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Su-20 (Irak)
22.12.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x fighter (Irak)
30.12.1980 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
7.01.1981 F-14A (Iran) - 3 x MiG-23BN (Irak)
29.01.1981 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Su-22 (Irak)
21.04.1981 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-23BN (Irak)
15.05.1981 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
19.08.1981 F-14A (USN) - 2 x Su-22 (Libya)
22.10.1981 F-14A (Iran) - 3 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
- 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
11.12.1981 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
- 1 x MiG-21 (Irak)
12.12.1981 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
14.12.1981 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
1982 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-25RB (Irak)
21.07.1982 F-14A (Iran) - 3 x MiG-23MF (Irak)
16.09.1982 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-25RB (Irak)
10.10.1982 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x MiG-23BN (Irak)
7.11.1982 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Su-22 (Irak)
21.11.1982 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x MiG-23MF (Irak)
- 1 x MiG-21MF (Irak)
1.12.1982 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-25RB (Irak)
4.12.1982 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-25PD (Irak)
21.01.1983 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-23BN (Irak)
28.07.1983 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
6.08.1983 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-25RB (Irak)
31.08.1983 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x Su-22 (Irak)
09.1982 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x Su-22 (Irak)
10.1982 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Su-22 (Irak)
25.02.1984 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x MiG-21bis (Irak)
- 2 x fighter (Irak)
1.03.1984 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Su-22 (Irak)
25.03.1984 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Tu-22B (Irak)
6.04.1984 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x Tu-22B (Irak)
26.07.1984 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Super Etendard (Irak)
03.1985 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x MiG-27 (Russia)
26.03.1985 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
1986 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-25BM (Russia)
15.02.1986 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-25RB (Irak)
14.03.1986 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Mirage 5SDE (Egypt)
12.07.1986 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-23ML (Irak)
3.09.1986 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-25RB (Irak)
7.10.1986 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
14.10.1986 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-23ML (Irak)
24.10.1986 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Su-22 (Irak)
18.02.1987 F-14A (Iran) - 3 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
20.02.1987 F-14A (Iran) - 3 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
24.02.1987 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-23BN (Irak)
- 1 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
24.06.1987 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x SA321 (Irak)
29.08.1987 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
31.08.1987 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
11.11.1987 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-25BM (Russia)
15.11.1987 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
02.1988 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
9.02.1988 F-14A (Iran) - 3 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
15.02.1988 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
16.02.1988 F-14A (Iran) - 2 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
25.02.1988 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Xian B-6D (Irak)
- 1 x C601 missile (Irak)
1.03.1988 F-14A (Iran) - 1 X Su-20 (Irak)
3.03.1988 F-14A (Iran) - 1 X Su-20 (Irak)
18.02.1988 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
19.03.1988 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-25RBS (Irak)
20.03.1988 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-25RB (Irak)
22.03.1988 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x MiG-25RB (Irak)
24.03.1988 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
4.05.1988 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
15.05.1988 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
14.06.1988 F-14A (Iran) - 1 x Mirage F1EQ (Irak)
4.01.1989 F-14A (USN) - 2 x MiG-23 (Libya)
6.02.1991 F-14A (USN) - 1 x Mi-17 (Irak)


Losses in air to air combat: 5

12.1980 MiG-21bis (Irak) - 1 x F-14A (Iran)
11.08.1984 MiG-23ML (Irak) - 1 x F-14A (Iran)
17.01.1987 MiG-23ML (Irak) - 1 x F-14A (Iran)
19.07.1988 Mirage F1EQ (Irak) - 2 x F-14A (Iran)




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