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Supreme Court upholds military recruiters on campus

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posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 09:25 AM
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Breaking news:
The Supreme Court has upheld that colleges that accept federal funds must also accept military recruiters on campus. This despite the objections of many colleges to the military's policy on gays. More details to follow as they come out.


www.cnn.com...
U.S. Supreme Court rules colleges that accept federal money must allow military recruiters on campus, despite university objections to Pentagon's policy on gays.




posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 09:31 AM
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More info on the (unanimous) ruling:


Ruling
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court ruled unanimously Monday that colleges that accept federal money must allow military recruiters on campus, despite university objections to the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays.

Justices rejected a free-speech challenge from law school professors who claimed they should not be forced to associate with military recruiters or promote their campus appearances.

Chief Justice John Roberts wrote the decision, which was unanimous.





posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 12:14 PM
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This brings up an odd situation though. THe schools must accept the military as a condition of accepting federal funds. Also, in most cases, you must accept gays in order to accept federal funds.

So why does the military get to reject gays, shoudlnt' they be forced to accept them, just like the schools are forced to accept the military?



posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 12:20 PM
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Personally, I think the "gay" issue was a smoke screen. That is the question the colleges wanted asked by bringing it up. Truthfully, I think the colleges wanted the military off their campuses for a different reason. Going to sound a bit harsh here... But college campus' in general aren't the most military friendly institutions.



posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by LostSailor
Truthfully, I think the colleges wanted the military off their campuses for a different reason.

Sure, I agree. However, the point, however insincere, is made, no?



posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by LostSailor
Personally, I think the "gay" issue was a smoke screen.


I actually agree with you. I think for the most part, the college campuses who wanted the recruiters out just wanted them out and used the gay discrimination fact to bolster their argument.

Nygdan, you bring up an excellent point! The military is a special case, not only allowed to discriminate against gays, but their discrimination is protected by the government! But then the government (supposedly) isn't allowed to discriminate... Strange, indeed!



[edit on 6-3-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 12:59 PM
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It is my sincerest hope that some ROTC super-joc types "bump" into the taliban yahoo at YALE.


(author now does small cheer in the honor of John Roberts)



posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
So why does the military get to reject gays, shoudlnt' they be forced to accept them, just like the schools are forced to accept the military?

The military has the totally undecipherable policy of "don't ask, don't tell", which permits gays to serve only if they keep their sexual orientation to themselves. Which to me, brings up a whole passel of questions and scenarios.



posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
So why does the military get to reject gays, shoudlnt' they be forced to accept them, just like the schools are forced to accept the military?


This military isn't asking to be "accepted" by the schools. The military is simply asking for access to the students who attend those schools, in an equal fashion that other corporate oganization enjoy.

And since we are talking about colleges, we can assume that the student body is comprised of rational, objective adults who can make their own decisions about life and politics, and do not need the greybeards who run our colleges to decide what they do and do not need in their futures.

Quite frankly, I am particularly galled whenever I hear about Whatchamacalit University accepting millions of dollars of grant money and then turning around and bitching about recruiters on campus - as if they have only just been showing up in the last few years. These are the same class of wealthy, left-wing do-gooders who supposedly champion the little guys, but scream and shout if you try to build a halfway house on their street, or raise their property taxes.

Its all about NIMBY. They all want the benefits of a free country so they can lead the lifestyles their accustomed to, but they do not want to contribute to the system that provides them with said lifestyle. In this case, the campus is just another version of their back yard. S'OK to go recruit drop-outs in Kansas City, or dock workers in Mobile, or farmers from Butte.....but Freshmen at Harvard or Yale? Egad, man! How terribly common!



posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
The military has the totally undecipherable policy of "don't ask, don't tell", which permits gays to serve only if they keep their sexual orientation to themselves.


You sure the military doesn't ask? Well, even if they do, I think it is just something they are trying to avoid. It is my opinion that sexual preference shouldn't matter. But, I also think the military looks at it with the view of if you don't tell... We don't care. The military has bigger things to worry about than who you sleep with. They want to train you to survive in wars... They want to avoid the whole gay movement altogether, and the lawsuits that may arise from homosexual behavior maybe?

Men, in close proximity to each other... Showering together... Sleeping next to each other... Living day and night together... I'm just fishing... Searching for an answer...

Not to mention... The inevitable unacceptance of homosexuality by many others in the military. You have to admit, the stereotypical soldier that joins the military probably isn't to supportive of homosexual behavior. They are trained not to think... What's next? Tolerance training during boot camp?

I think many might argue that these reasons justify not letting admitted gays in the military.

Your argument about accepting gays for government funding is a valid one Nygdan. But, are you sure it is really a good thing to have openly gay men/women in the military?



posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by Pyros
and do not need the greybeards who run our colleges to decide what they do and do not need in their futures.

Indeed. One can perhaps almost make a case for high schools and the like, where the students are young stupid kids, but by the college level, its really got to be up to the students.
But, of course, they are objecting on the fact that the military discriminates against gays. There point, even if insincere, is a difficult one to argue with.
Not legalistically though, legally, apparently, the army can discriminate against gays, and the college has to accept / permit recruitment for the army as part of a package with the federal money.



posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Not legalistically though, legally, apparently, the army can discriminate against gays, and the college has to accept / permit recruitment for the army as part of a package with the federal money.


Is it wise to compare the military to colleges?



posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by LostSailor
You sure the military doesn't ask? Well, even if they do, I think it is just something they are trying to avoid. It is my opinion that sexual preference shouldn't matter. But, I also think the military looks at it with the view of if you don't tell... We don't care. The military has bigger things to worry about than who you sleep with. They want to train you to survive in wars... They want to avoid the whole gay movement altogether, and the lawsuits that may arise from homosexual behavior maybe?

No, I'm not sure at all. It's just that when I think of all the possible scenarios, I get dizzy.

Anyway, I believe that the college's objections are more anti-military than they want to admit, and the gay thing is just a red herring.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 10:59 AM
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The US military has no business on college campuses. THey say they look for the best and brightest, really they are looking for recent graduates who hate themselves, hate the major they obtained or have no immediate plans for the future.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by Frosty
The US military has no business on college campuses.


You don't think there could actually be bright and intelligent people that would join the military?



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 01:44 PM
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Well the way things are going with our young in colleges and the increases in tuition and students loans they are becoming a very nice and educated target to the military.

If you are in debt even before you have a job the military will offer you no only a scape to the debt but a nice officers rank if you serve.

I am against this? no I am actually not against it, I think that will take care of what is becoming a growing trend with our college students that are not as fortunate as the wealthy students.

The can have a way to pay for their debts, but then again I blame the government for all these.

Education is becoming very hard to achieve by the poor in our nation and only the middle class and wealthy can afford it.

So let them have choices they are adults already in college so is their right to chose.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 01:49 PM
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Sailor, bright and intelligent people know where they can go to join.

These guys roam around recruiting under the guise of career acceleration. Everyone my age has heard the song and dance.

I am all about making military service an easily accessable option, or career, but these guys are feeding kids bs just to get that signature. I know a couple guys that were dumb enough to getting duped into joining right before 9/11. They thought there was no chance of conflict. They were getting a GI bill and 4 years of worldly experience. We all know this is no longer the case, hence the huge drop in recruitment numbers.

I think the recruiters are better off trying to recruit in colleges. That way at least we know the people that sign up are intelligent enough to know what they are getting themselves into. Too many poor, stupid kids get "duped" into service when they are approached in malls and high schools. I would rather have a military full of guys that know why they signed up, and are full aware of what they are soldiers for.

Soldiers should be just that, SOLDIERS; Fighting for their country. Not mercenaries that only join for signing bonuses worth thousands, or free college.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 02:05 PM
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I think the don't ask don't tell policy is the best way (now) to handle having gays in the military. I think it'll probably change in the near future to "open sexual orientation".....and that's cool.

There's nothing wrong with having gays in the military but the truth is that todays (and tomorrows) youth are just not ready to accept it. In a way the policy protects gays in the military.

Another reason could be that many times service members have to live in and use squad bays, open barracks, community showers, open stalls, etc..etc... the list goes on.

[edit on 8/3/2006 by SportyMB]



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 02:18 PM
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Off topic a little....


Originally posted by DaFunk13
I know a couple guys that were dumb enough to getting duped into joining right before 9/11.

So what makes them dumb for joining before 9/11? Is everyone that joined before 9/11 dumb?



Soldiers should be just that, SOLDIERS; Fighting for their country. Not mercenaries that only join for signing bonuses worth thousands, or free college.

Some people did'nt do so well in school and want a second chance to do something besides work at Mcdonalds or some department store...maybe mom and dad can't afford college. So what's wrong with enlisting straight after HS?

What's wrong with joining the military for the GI Bill and 100% tuition assistance? What's wrong with joining just for the experience? I know many people 2 years into college that wanted a change in scenery so they enlisted for a couple year just to see what it's like. Are they Dumb?




[edit on 8/3/2006 by SportyMB]



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 02:29 PM
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No I didnt mean to imply that anyone that joins for reasons other that patriotism is dumb. But my pals are the first to say that they were dumb to join with only free college and a signing bonus in mind. The burdon of actual military service, ie. conflict, is seldom weighed by many in times of peace.

The guys I mentioned joined for $$$. IMO, this is the wrong reason. A bonus and GI bill should be just that...a bunus on top of the satisfaction you get for serving your country. Do you disagree? Would you rather see an army of mercenaries, killing for a paycheck, or an army of patriots doing a duty for their country? This is my point.

And yes, flame if you will, but a majority of people I know who are enlisted are rather dumb, at least when pertaining to politics, and US foreign policy. This doesnt make them bad servicemen/women. We dont need political scientists looking down the sights, we need soldiers. I just sleep a lot better knowing the people fighting overseas understand why they are fighting. They dont have to agree, just understand.

I am not here to roast the country-ass-hick or the ghetto-thug who joined for whatever reason. I am against the system that keeps these people ignorant so they will never understand the real scenarios underlying the bombs and bullets they are so familar with.



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