Holland to allow ‘baby euthanasia’

Ahh no......Life is Black OR white, grey areas are created by man to try to cloud the truth. To quiet one's "id" and deny guilt.

I find it hard to believe you honestly think that.

What about your nation's disaster when Katrina struck. There are photographs and videos of people stealing food from abandoned stores to feed their family. Now, is this wrong because it is stealing, or right because they are doing it to feed their family?

See, grey areas exist.

~MFP

Originally posted by Blaine91555

originally posted by Bibliophile - Realistically, the severely handicapped are a drain on resources.

[1] Bibliophile - You’re doing a dance around your original assertion (see the quote). Would you say that this should apply equally to your family, your children, your parents, your friends???

[2] This is a hard conversation for me to enter into without emotion as I’m who you are talking about. It’s me that you want dead. It's me you are calling a "drain on resources". What about severely handicapped adults? Should we all be euthanized. Could you administer the lethal dose to an infant as you held it in your arms? Your statements are very similar to ones made by Hitler. The Aryan Nation agrees with you and your opinion. Are you also in line with their other beliefs?? I can not see you as anything other than evil. Did you torture animals when you were young?

1. Absolutely. My family thrives on common sense. We all have living wills that specify we be unplugged immediately. We recognize we have a responsibility to society not to burden it with unnecessary and unreasonable expense.

As for my quote, if you read this thread carefully and had a proper grasp of the English language, you would understand the caveat realistically. I am really tired of the necessity of repeating my statements for people who have not taken the time to carefully read the entire thread.

2. I do not have an issue with cleaning up the gene pool. Euthanizing a retarded infant is not a problem for me. So, in your opinion, this makes me evil. Good. I do not have a problem with being evil.

No, I did not torture animals when I was young. Actually, I prefer animals to people. Unlike humans they are guileless.

Since I am evil and doomed to continually repeat myself, I am retiring from this thread. I have said all I have to say on this issue.

By the way, playing the "pity me" card was a lame maneuver. Remember, I am evil, a completely heartless b*st*rd, so I do not care.

Labels -

Does anyone know of a recently published book about people who have defide the 'experts' and given birth to children they were 'advised' to (more like emotionally battered and lied to) abort.

I caught a bit of it on Australia's ABC 774 radio, with Jon Faine recently, the outstanding part of which was a bright, socially active and responsible young woman who's sever 'brittle bone' disease puts her on today's abort or euthanais list.

Don't you just love that others are 'educated', 'enlightened', 'just' and legally empowered enough to decide to 'relieve' you of your 'worthless' life.

Yet again I find ATS full of people who judge and condemn God for not living up(down) to their standards, yet don't condemn, and even advocate, the taking and ending of children's and babies lives.

ORANGETOM WHERE ARE YOU? I could so do with a dose of your gental wisdom right now.

Don't you just love that others are 'educated', 'enlightened', 'just' and legally empowered enough to decide to 'relieve' you of your 'worthless' life.

Yet again I find ATS full of people who judge and condemn God for not living up(down) to their standards, yet don't condemn, and even advocate, the taking and ending of children's and babies lives.

No, I'm mostly sick of the people who feel they have the absolutel power to provide the rest of us with an interpretation of THEIR god's word from a book translated into English by a monarch from a language few speak.

That's what I'm sick of.

~MFP

Originally posted by bsl4doc
No, I'm mostly sick of the people who feel they have the absolutel power to provide the rest of us with an interpretation of THEIR god's word from a book translated into English by a monarch from a language few speak.

That's what I'm sick of.

~MFP

Amen to that. If this is not the choice for you then do not do it. Its really that simple is it not? TO cloak this issue in religion or make it a religous issue as all the right winged zealots did during the Terri Schaivo incident smacks of the very dehumanizing many of you are calling this.

And many of you persist into making this law seems as if parents can and will do this at the drop of a hat. That is simply not the case. Pity that so many of you feel you have the moral right to judge these people when so few of you have EVER been faced with this scenario. How about you walk a few miles in thier shoes eh :shk:

Amen Ryan, somebody need's to speak for the weak. This is what get's to me about abortion and now this euthanasia thing- it's attacking the weakest, most defenseless segment of our society, think about how cowardly and evil this is. Attacking the weak. Really get's to me. Somebody need's to stick up for those who can't lift a sword, good work Ryan

Amen Ryan, somebody need's to speak for the weak. This is what get's to me about abortion and now this euthanasia thing- it's attacking the weakest, most defenseless segment of our society, think about how cowardly and evil this is. Attacking the weak. Really get's to me. Somebody need's to stick up for those who can't lift a sword, good work Ryan

So now doctors and parents are "attacking" fetuses? Wow. In the 8 weeks I did my clinical rotation in ob/gyn, I don't recall ever hearing a doctor say, "Now how can I convince this mother to let me abort her baby. I've got to rid the world of those little buggers..."

How about you stop playing with rhetoric and address some of the questions in this thread?

~MFP

Originally posted by Nakash
Amen Ryan, somebody need's to speak for the weak. This is what get's to me about abortion and now this euthanasia thing- it's attacking the weakest, most defenseless segment of our society, think about how cowardly and evil this is. Attacking the weak. Really get's to me. Somebody need's to stick up for those who can't lift a sword, good work Ryan

Someone is sticking up for them if you had spent anytime reading and UNDERSTANDING what this about. THose people were thier parents. How easy do you think it was / is / or would be for any of them. If my three year old was in pain and treatment options were hopeless I would not want to sit by while he suffers. How many of you could do that? How many of you have ever seen the pain these little ones are in? Most of you have no concept whatsoever and base your knee jerk reaction on God

All it takes for evil to triumph is for Good to cease fighting Your apathy and disdain for the whole issue is a contributing factor, if people didn't take some sort of bizzare pleasure in turning this into a political point/fight, and instead concentrated on the issue at hand (how to curb abortions, is abortion even neccesary or safe as a whole? what of the ethics involved in terminating a human life just because it's still not fully capable of fending for itself) we wouldn't have a million abortions a year.

Originally posted by Nakash
All it takes for evil to triumph is for Good to cease fighting Your apathy and disdain for the whole issue is a contributing factor, if people didn't take some sort of bizzare pleasure in turning this into a political point/fight, and instead concentrated on the issue at hand

We are talking aabout the issue at hand despite your 2 attempts to derail this into yet another tiresome abortion question. How is turning this into a political point (if you read this thread all the way through, its been more of a morality type debate) any differnet that your attempt to "Bibleize it into this battle of good versus evil. what next, are you going to throw passages at me? :shk:

Instead of your tiresome knee jerk rhetoric how about you actually look at the law. How many children who are suffering in a huge amount of pain does this effect? Millions according to what you seem to believe, but actually quite few. But hey its not your pain and suffering eh?

And please spare me any abortion talk if you want to try to smother us with your sence or morality, there are plenty of threads here on ATS for that. stick to the topic at hand eh?

Originally posted by Nakash
All it takes for evil to triumph is for Good to cease fighting Your apathy and disdain for the whole issue is a contributing factor, if people didn't take some sort of bizzare pleasure in turning this into a political point/fight, and instead concentrated on the issue at hand (how to curb abortions, is abortion even neccesary or safe as a whole? what of the ethics involved in terminating a human life just because it's still not fully capable of fending for itself) we wouldn't have a million abortions a year.

I don't recall doctors ever turning this into a political issue. I believe that is the main goal of the religious right, to turn it into a political issue and have abortion banned. I hate to break it to you, but abortios have always occured, are occuring, and will always occur for various reaons. I don't personally or morally agree with a woman using it as a form of birth control, I certainly would never do it, but I also realize that woman has a right to decide what happens to her body. What about cases of rape? Should the woman bear that child? Or what if the mother could die in labor? Should the go on with the birth then?

It's amazing to me, a woman, how many men want a say in this issue, as well as how many Christians assume they are the icons of morality.

~MFP

Fred, this is a more fundamental issue. Your looking at this through an utilitarian eye where the means justify the ends. How about considering the fact that if life begins at conception, we are effectively ending another human being's freewill out of convenience? I'm also tired of the pro-abortion crowds Knee jerk "oh, but the child will be poorly cared for",etc.,etc. who are we to make this decision for a human being? What sort of tyrannical mentality is this, who's next- the elderly on life support, the crippled who can't live by themselves, the poor, the "undesirables"? I mean please, think outside the box, your smarter than the people who give those phoney reasons. You should see who founded planned parenthood- Margaret Sangar a NAZI and KKK member with a racist agenda and the exact extremist viewpoint I just cited. Yes, you heard it- planned parenthood is a NAZI project. National-Socialist, the same people who killed 6 million jews now say it's a great idea for Americans to have a million abortions every year. Gee, I am *SO* glad I formed my opinion on this years ago instead of bowing down to the pc crowd.


[edit on 16-3-2006 by Nakash]

Fred, this is a more fundamental issue. Your looking at this through an utilitarian eye where the means justify the ends. How about considering the fact that if life begins at conception, we are effectively ending another human being's freewill out of convenience? I'm also tired of the pro-abortion crowds Knee jerk "oh, but the child will be poorly cared for",etc.,etc. who are we to make this decision for a human being? What sort of tyrannical mentality is this, who's next- the elderly on life support, the crippled who can't live by themselves, the poor, the "undesirables"? I mean please, think outside the box, your smarter than the people who give those phoney reasons.

You can't honestly be comparing a newborn who lives in constant pain and whose only memories of life are those of suffering with someone who is elderly and needs help getting around.

Please explain your comparison, and please give the logic behind your jump from having compassion for a suffering infant to snuffing out the elderly because of convenience.

I honestly think religions drains logic from people.

~MFP

So you acknowledge that it's a newborn and not a "fetus"? Good that's all I need. You are effectively saying that you have some (shall I dare say..divine?) right to end another human being's life. You my friend need to learn some logic. That is the mentality of a tyrant, not a logical thinking human being. The ends do NOT justify the means. We are human beings, not animals, we are above that sort of thinking.

[edit on 16-3-2006 by Nakash]

Originally posted by FredT

And many of you persist into making this law seems as if parents can and will do this at the drop of a hat. That is simply not the case.

The book I mentioned in my post contradicts your opinion and has nothing to do with religion but the cases of women and their surviving children who were brow beaten with man's 'morality', by those we're taught to treat and trust as 'gods'.

I posted on the issue of ethics and fully informed choise, and simply raised the bias many show against the Christian perspective when they can't/won't attack other faiths for practicing murderous evils against children but declare, null and void, our opinion on this issue (which I haven't actually shared with you 'hollier than thou', 'judgemental', 'nothing a Christian has to say is worth listening to' lot) BECAUSE we're Christian.

I think the book is called, something like, "Defiant Birth?/Life?" and from the snippets of the interview with the author I heared, is a must read for every woman of child bearing age, reguardless of which side of the religous/ethical fence they stand.

I posted on the issue of ethics and fully informed choise, and simply raised the bias many show against the Christian perspective when they can't/won't attack other faiths for practicing murderous evils against children but declare, null and void, our opinion on this issue (which I haven't actually shared with you 'hollier than thou', 'judgemental', 'nothing a Christian has to say is worth listening to' lot) BECAUSE we're Christian.

I don't have a bias against Christians. I have a bias against people who try to enforce their own religion and morality on everyone else.

And I hope you're no implying Christians are innocent in harming children. Can anyone say Catholics and backwoods southern baptist child molestors?

~MFP

Originally posted by Bibliophile
2. I do not have an issue with cleaning up the gene pool. Euthanizing a retarded infant is not a problem for me. So, in your opinion, this makes me evil. Good. I do not have a problem with being evil.

Gonna make a wild claim here.... But I would say these words right here just discredit you as a #ing human being. Sorry but you are one ignorant son of a bitch... Kick me off ATS I don't care. People like you make me sick to my stomach. If this post gets me banned... It was worth it. I can't believe a person like you still exists in modern society.

[edit on 16-3-2006 by LostSailor]

Originally posted by bsl4doc

I don't have a bias against Christians. I have a bias against people who try to enforce their own religion and morality on everyone else.

And I hope you're no implying Christians are innocent in harming children. Can anyone say Catholics and backwoods southern baptist child molestors?

~MFP

1. I wasn't trying to 'enforce' anything but give a lead to a book full of these cases, of people 'enforcing' their Godless 'morality' on mothers and their children.

2. I can also say; doctors and nurses using me as a sex toy from age 2 to 4, but it doesn't stop me from hearing out all the others, like those in my family.

Originally posted by LostSailor

Originally posted by Bibliophile
2. I do not have an issue with cleaning up the gene pool. Euthanizing a retarded infant is not a problem for me. So, in your opinion, this makes me evil. Good. I do not have a problem with being evil.

Gonna make a wild claim here.... But I would say these words right here just discredit you as a ******* human being. Sorry but you are one ignorant son of a *****... Kick me off ATS I don't care. People like you make me sick to my stomach. If this post gets me banned... It was worth it. I can't believe a person like you still exists in modern society.

I have to agree with your sentiments here but what scares me more is the lack of people who are moved to tell him off for "shoving his 'religion' down peoples throats".

et again I find ATS full of people who judge and condemn God for not living up(down) to their standards, yet don't condemn, and even advocate, the taking and ending of children's and babies lives.

You don't think this is in any way indicative of a religious agenda? Even in subtext? Wow. Maybe you're brainwashed by your American televangelists or the "Pay the Lord" channel.

Also, like I said earlier, just because YOU personally have had a bad experience with handful of medical professionals does not mean you have any right to make blanket statements about physicians. Just like any profession, there will be good and bad. There are bad doctors, bad police officers, bad priests, many bad politicians, etc. There are also good ones, but you seem to think there is no such thing as a good doctor.

~MFP