Holland to allow ‘baby euthanasia’

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posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 12:19 AM
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Why is it not ok to help someone in terrible pain die mercifully, when it's perfectly acceptable to do everything to keep them alive, even if it means artificial respiration, and feeding tubes? Isn't that like playing God too?




posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by denial28
Why is it not ok to help someone in terrible pain die mercifully, when it's perfectly acceptable to do everything to keep them alive, even if it means artificial respiration, and feeding tubes? Isn't that like playing God too?


I would agree with you. Bu tthe extreme 'right to life" crowd thinks differently on the matter. Take the sad Terri Schaivo case.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 01:12 AM
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Everyone seems to be argueing about sanctity of life, abortion, whether we should allow this...allow that.....

It is my personal OPINION as a man that a decision should be made by the parents, particularly, the mother. The state, the doctors, etc should respect such a decision concerning "euthanasia" so long as it is done humanely.

Lets get back to basics. If everyone was capable on an individual level of asking themselves "Is this good for us?" and answering it realistically, we wouldn't need to come up with laws applying to EVERYONE that protect the rights of those FEW INDIVIDUALS who are inherently stupid. We wouldn't have to tear off those warning labels off everything we purchase (Do not stick fork in eye, may cause pain and/or blindness, etc) It would also help if people would take responsibility for their own actions instead of trying to blame others (Mcdonald's coffee cups come to mind).



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by ivansusanin
i completely agree with bibliophile.

The united states government is an elected theocracy...We all have to conform to what the government believes in; they think religiously, therefore euthanasia is illegal. What about us atheists? Nihilists? Agnostics? We are misrepresented.


I disagree with your stand on the misrepresentation of the stated minorities. If you vote, then your voice is heard. One could argue that the Electoral College might lead to some misrepresentation. However, their job is to represent the majority.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by denial28
Why is it not ok to help someone in terrible pain die mercifully, when it's perfectly acceptable to do everything to keep them alive, even if it means artificial respiration, and feeding tubes? Isn't that like playing God too?


It truely scares me that life can be so cheap. Regardless of how one views it origin, LIFE is a miracle. Look at all the other planets in our solar system.........NO life. Yet on this little world it is so abundant that the "superior" species can just toss it away without a second thought?

The entire purpose of "medicine" is to prolong life. Period! Otherwise why have it at all.

For those who missed the point.......Steven hawking had a genetic disorder that caused his colapse. What if his parent had decided not to let him "suffer" (if they had the technology back then). How many babies have be murdered that could have cured HIV/AIDS or found a technology to render nuclear weapons "inert". No one knows.

The basic differences in the "sides" in the thread is "Hope". If the world has lost "Hope" perhaps we should all just check it in..............



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 07:37 AM
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The entire purpose of "medicine" is to prolong life. Period! Otherwise why have it at all.


Actually, one of the first purposes of medicine was herbal abortions. Animals do it, and our ancestors here in Italy and Greece noted which plants the animals ate and used the same herbs. It was used in the case of a woman who was ailing, or in some instances, when the baby was a product of rape. We discussed this in my medical seminar first year in medical school.

I don't know where you got the idea that medicine is ONLY for prolonging life. Abortion is medicine. Euthanasia is medicine. Both of these have been around for a long time. As another poster brought up, you can see mercy killings in many animals and cultures. So, just because you want to enforce your religion on the rest of the world through rhetoric, thermo, doesn't mean you're right. Don't you think you're acting a little bit like Islamic extremists here, ignoring all views other than your own and demonising your opponents?

~MFP



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 07:46 AM
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Originally posted by bsl4doc
Animals do it.............


You know where I could go with this comment right? I won't even bother though, as I am sure you already know what I would say about it.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 09:13 AM
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You know where I could go with this comment right? I won't even bother though, as I am sure you already know what I would say about it.


What could you say? That we are animals as well and are subject to the laws of nature? That we are one of the few animals, if not the only, who kills out of anger and lust? That we see ourselves as "above" nature even though we can only function within its bounds? Or perhaps that morals and religion are something of human fabrication, not ingrained in our nature?

Were any of those what you were going to say?

~MFP



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by Bibliophile
Quality of life should always take precedence over quantity. Realistically, the severely handicapped are a drain on resources.

The Dutch are a progressive people. They think long-range and shape their policies accordingly. Their take on the value of human life and the importance of human dignity is not all that unusual for Europe, a scientifically advanced area of the world.

It is unfortunate that the US is still so mired in mysticism that it, proverbially, cannot see the forest for the trees.

So, using your logic, my sister who was born with what the doctors stated as a severe form of cerebal palsy should have been "put down"?
We were told she would never walk, never talk, etc...
Funny, she is now 8 and she talks just like you and I, she can walk with the help of a walker but normally uses her wheelchair, is extremely intelligent etc...

She will be able to work and "earn her keep" even tho the doc's said she would not.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by FredT

Some families have elected to stop treatment and allow thier child to recieve pain medication and die in the love and warmth of thier parents embrace.
To me this is NOT euthanasia, this is simply letting nature take its course with compassion in regards to the pain meds.

Yet I draw the line at actively killing ANYBODY simply because they have become an inconvience. I recently burried my grandfather who battled alzhiemers for several years, in h is last few days he had periods where he was lucent and knew what was going on, he shared with the family more in those last few days than he had his entire 89 years previously. Every life is a gift, every life teaches us a new lesson, some good, some bad but its still a lesson that many times we fail to learn. The lesson may be compassion, understanding, who knows, my point is, we as a society as a whole are moving faster and faster towards doing what is more convienent and easier than what may be difficult or inconvienient and personally that scares the hell out of me.

quick spelling fix

[edit on 8-3-2006 by Striker8441]



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 09:52 AM
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I love how this thread is now discussing "convenience" killings.

It takes a pretty cold hearted person to end the life of someone because they deem their life unworthy. I think we were origionally talking about infant suffering, and now we are debating putting retards out of their "misery?"

I have a friend with severe palsy, and he is far from suffering. Arguably, he is having more fun with life than most of us are. Just because someone can't walk, or use the rest room without help doesnt mean they are suffering. A baby born with an incurable birth defect that will cause severe pain until untimely death and a person with a mental/physical handicap are completely different.

[edit on 8-3-2006 by DaFunk13]



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 10:38 AM
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My point was this, how long before we condone convience killings. I did not say it was that way now. As for the baby in the OP, if I was the father (I have 3 kids) I would more than likely pull any lifesaving measures, medicate against pain and allow nature to take its course, I would NOT tho cause the death of the child by introducing drugs that would cause death.

I hope that makes sense



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by bsl4doc
What could you say? That we are animals as well and are subject to the laws of nature?


Speak for yourself. I am no animal.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 11:39 AM
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But that is just it...we ARE animals. We are here to grow, breed, raise the next generation, and die, just like the rest of the life on this planet.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 12:33 PM
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quote: Originally posted by bsl4doc
What could you say? That we are animals as well and are subject to the laws of nature?


Speak for yourself. I am no animal.


An animal, by definition, exhibits eukaryotic cell structure, is multicellular, lacks cell walls, uses O2 and produces CO2, among other criteria. You are, in fact, an animal, unless you consider yourself outside of nature, which is a paradox considering the process by which you were created is as organic as granola.

~MFP



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by thermopolis
Many great scientist like Steven Hawkings would never have a chance.

This baby would never live anywhere near as long as hawking. They are talking about having euthanised a baby that was not going to survive for any appreciable length of time.

Also, what business is it of yours? The parents made this decision, its their child, its their decision, not anyone elses. If the state made this illegal, would it then give that child the support it needs? Of course not. I doubt that the care it was given was paid for by the state. So society and the state have no right to make any claims to this child.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by bsl4doc
You are, in fact, an animal, unless you consider yourself outside of nature, which is a paradox considering the process by which you were created is as organic as granola.


Organic yes... Am I an animal? No. Look, you can spout off the medical scientific terminology that you want. I am obviously speaking of something deeper than you could possibly understand... Or refuse to.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 04:07 PM
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And what, exactly, is this "deep" thing that apparently only YOU know about that removes you from nature?

Emotions? No, animals have been shown to exhibit these to an extent.

Tools? No again, apes create these.

Hmm, I'm sure you'll say it is the soul, but we're not in the fantastical land of religion right now, we're in the realm of science, you know, that place where you have to have evidence before you can make ludicrous claims contradictory to years of research and evidence?

~MFP



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 04:24 PM
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I am not a religious man... Just so you understand this. It's something that can't be explained. You either know it or you don't. Tough to think that something can't be explained isn't it?

You really can't differentiate yourself from an animal? I must be living in a fantastical world of make believe...



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Striker8441

Originally posted by FredT

Some families have elected to stop treatment and allow thier child to recieve pain medication and die in the love and warmth of thier parents embrace.
To me this is NOT euthanasia, this is simply letting nature take its course with compassion in regards to the pain meds.


Yes it is! A compassionate and loving manner yes but the adminstering of pain medication in often large enough doses to cause repiratory system shutdown IS how it is practiced and that is Euthanasia.






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