Holland to allow ‘baby euthanasia’

Well as you haven't read it or heared any of the stories (that include some horrible pressure from "health professionals") and chosen to 'debunk' all of 'the other sides' argument based on one review (or my recomendation?) then I can only assume you are the one with a 'firm agenda'.

Going by your pathetic attempt to discourage others from reading it (comparing me to a "spin for profit" merchant and the claim of a bad review. The link didn't work) then I will encourage everyone to put you on 'ignor', as your posts have had many 'bad reviews'.

Before you accuse anyone else of 'spin' you should study up on the doctors who kill. They usually support ideas like 'mercy killings' and eugenics. And work for people like Hitler....wow you are the first person to inspire me to use that cheap shot...sorry readers.

There is one doctor, Australia in trying to bring back from the U.S. to charge at the moment. In word anyway, as they sent him out of the country before many whistleblowers could finally get him charged.

I also noticed that you won't admit that there is no board to weed out Death Cult devotees from gaining medical qualifications. Just as some paedophiles become priests to access children, some 'death cultists' become doctors to kill.

Suzy, you honestly have left me speechless. I can't even imagine an answer that would even come close to describing how horrified I am that people out there may take something you say seriously.

Death cult members? Screening medical students for DEATH CULT MEMBERS? Are you serious? You think that should be a standard question on the medical applications? "Are you or have you ever been a member of the cult of Kali or other "death cults"? "HAHA! That would sure make my day. Don't you think 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of medical school, and 4 years of residency is a bit long just to kill a few people when the "cult member" could just kill people on the streets without a degree in anything?

I'm sorry, but when you bring up Hitler, and death cults all in one thread about whether a child should suffer or not, I really have to doubt your sanity. Can you provide me any documentation about these doctors who work for Hitleresque people? Or even some documentation about such Hitleresque people themselves? Or are they part of this underground death cult, as well?

Also, I never discouraged anyone from reading the book. From what I understand from several reviews of the book, it addresses the infant death issues in China and India, a very important issue in my opinion. That is a case of infanticide a world removed from the case we are discussing, however.

Also, are you aware of the case against Dr. Kevorkian, or Nurse Charles Cullen currently going on in the United States? It's making world news. America is prosecuting medical professionals for assisted suicide. Doesn't that fly in the face of what you are saying a bit?

Or are you still living in your imaginary world where death cult members would rather go through 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of medical school, and 4 years of residency just to kill a few people instead of going out onto the street and shooting them?

~MFP

P.S. Next time, take the blue pill.

Uh, Nakash, apparently your hotshot school isn't so hotshot....Hitler didn't discriminate when it came to gassing his victims.

As far as the "my school's better than your school" HOO-RAH crap, that intercollegiate rvialry stuff adds nothing and can start a flame war as fast as anything else.

Whether or not we study history around here, I'd appreciate a clean discussion on the topic of this thread. Keep the puches above the belt and no rabbit-punches. If I say go to your corners, break and go to your corners.

*Bell Rings*

You just won't let the other side of this issue be discussed.
You know all.
You know what's right.
You insult and belittle all posters of any opposition.
WHY?
It's a big bad world out there but you only see it in those who won't worship your 'god of medicine'.
The real life experiences of those who love life, despite their suffering, are valid and would be respected (even if disagreed with) by anyone who isn't a 'know all' bigot.

Oh, and I can only feel compassion for any parent offered this decision, but to encourage anyone to do so without learning and concidering ALL views, of what a 'good', 'valid', 'productive' and 'justifiable' life is, along with just how often even the best of doctors (and unseen lab. workers and researchers etc.) 'get it wrong', is past arrogant, it's evil.

I knew a very old man who never 'did' anything with his life other than be delightfull, inspiring company, despite a lifetime of great pain. As a very young child he had half his scull and a third of his brain chopped out with an axe. He was only 'patched up' as an 'experiment' and not intended or expected to live, yet defied all and was greatfull for every long year of it.

There are plenty of people to 'push your agenda', like those who brought in the law, yet 'the other side' gets very little hearing.

Like this aspect; IF it is a 'compassionate kindness' to kill these children, when will people like you create a 'Worlds Best Practice', 'scale of the saveable', and take the decision away from parents, by charging them with abuse if they don't agree with very fallible doctors?

I believe, very soon, and your agenda is to help bring it about by brainwashing people into worshiping your 'god of medicine' and hating anyone who doesn't, for being 'ignorant'.

My key point for the 'other side' is; the science and practice of medicine is falible, and not only rarely.

I think this is a good thing.
If my child would have of had something similar like this, I probably would have of done the same thing.

Why prolong the babies suffering? If life expectancy is very, very poor or if the baby is severely invalid, the I think this is an option.

Originally posted by Nordman
I think this is a good thing.
If my child would have of had something similar like this, I probably would have of done the same thing.

Why prolong the babies suffering? If life expectancy is very, very poor or if the baby is severely invalid, the I think this is an option.

Again, how quickly many of you have been "programed" to just accept a doctors opinion.

Doctors are not "Gods". I find it amazing that anyone can say for certain a 6 month old baby is in some sort of untreatable pain.

These "vermin" feed on the emotional human nature in such issues. Stop feeding these animals whom murder babies when ever possible.

Think for a minute and stop "reacting" to emotion.

If a baby is in such a condition that one sees that the baby is suffereing that is completely different than if the baby is just fine and a doctor tells you that it's not.

If you can SEE that the baby is not ok, then what's the problem?!
I'm not saying that it would be an easy decision, but I feel that it would be a right one. Why bring such a baby into this world? When the baby grows up, it would not survive and it would be such a burden to the parents and to itself, if it was awasre of itself.

I mean, how do you feel about euthanasia? That is different yes, because we are in charge of our own lives. If I was in an accident that only my head would move, I'd want euthanasia. I would want to be merciful towards a baby as well. Yes, it would not have the right to determine it's life, however I reckon that no one would want to live in pain or to grow with out a proper future.

prove that the child is in pain? don't take a commitee of doctors for their words??

prove to me that a baby in it's third trimester, feels the pain of a partial birth abortion!!

the baby is crying constantly, just touching her inflicts pain!! gee, how about you proving to me that jumping off a four story buidling might be painful!

Suzy Ryan, you're dodging my questions. Can you please provide me with evidence of the death cult members, their Hitleresque mannerisms, and the Hitleresque doctors you said they follow?

I assume you you have evidence to back all your claims up. I would hate to see you've made it all up.

~MFP

Ahh, if you're not aware of Hitler's eugenesis doctors who 'studied' healthy children to slow, torturous deaths, and that same culture being exported around the world by those who 'escaped' (with the assistance of) the allies, why would you take in any others I mention, like those during my babyhood in a hospital that still employs paedophiles on the run from charges in other countries.

Would you like to come here and let me introduce you some people who every agency in this town know are involved in such practices but are protected by powerfull people. I doubt anyone in their current neighbourhood would care enough to report their kiddy brothel and cause them to be moved again.

If you really wanted to know anything instead of just looking to discredit those who disagree with you, you'ld look it up. You are on the net aren't you. Or better still you could choose to work with survivers of SRA and maybe grow eyes that see and a heart that feel. It seems you lack them now.

Ahh, if you're not aware of Hitler's eugenesis doctors who 'studied' healthy children to slow, torturous deaths, and that same culture being exported around the world by those who 'escaped' (with the assistance of) the allies, why would you take in any others I mention, like those during my babyhood in a hospital that still employs paedophiles on the run from charges in other countries.

Would you like to come here and let me introduce you some people who every agency in this town know are involved in such practices but are protected by powerfull people. I doubt anyone in their current neighbourhood would care enough to report their kiddy brothel and cause them to be moved again.

If you really wanted to know anything instead of just looking to discredit those who disagree with you, you'ld look it up. You are on the net aren't you. Or better still you could choose to work with survivers of SRA and maybe grow eyes that see and a heart that feel. It seems you lack them now.

Yes, I'm aware of Hitler and his doctors. They're dead, or at least in their late 100s. Until you provide some sort of evidence regarding these "death cult" members, I'm just going to assume you've admitted you're wrong and are just full of hot air.

~MFP

As I posted in the other thread the back and forth bickering needs to stop NOW!

Thanks
Fred

I'm not bickering. I asking suzy ryan to provide evidence for her claims of an underground cult of death in the medical field. I don't think that's bickering, I think it's a chance for her to not sound crazy if she has evidence.
~MFP

Those beliefs didn't die with those people, infact eugenics, even with it's darker side, is on the rise. A great deal so in practice, without using the name, but even publicly, people are arguing for it.

There are other threads on SRA that have what you claim I can't provide. It exists and is growing, mainly due to people denying it rather that tackling the problem.

Night all.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Those beliefs didn't die with those people, infact eugenics, even with it's darker side, is on the rise. A great deal so in practice, without using the name, but even publicly, people are arguing for it.
..

The saddest aspect of Darwinism and its bastard step chld, Eugenics, is that the proponents of this dark religion know d****ed well they're in the wrong and know even better that it's completely irrelevant, this is about power, and ultimately, if they succeded legalised murder would primarily be used to dispose of dissenters - in the widest sense, mind you.

Don't fall into the oversensitive response trap, though, if you keep shouting wolf, no matter how justified it is, people will turn callous over time unless there are undeniable cases which make the news, even if the media® tries to conceal them. Unfortunately, last time i checked, investigations regarding 'euthanasia' in a New Orleans retirement home during the flood failed to produce any significant results (even though i don't doubt the allegations for a second) dozens of people killed by medical personell would have been a prototypical case.

Originally posted by Long Lance
Unfortunately, last time i checked, investigations regarding 'euthanasia' in a New Orleans retirement home during the flood failed to produce any significant results (even though i don't doubt the allegations for a second) dozens of people killed by medical personell would have been a prototypical case.

Nice reminder there LL. Typical mass media to just forget that happened. Kill'em before they drown...........great logic............especially when they could have been evacuated

Originally posted by thermopolis

Originally posted by Long Lance
Unfortunately, last time i checked, investigations regarding 'euthanasia' in a New Orleans retirement home during the flood failed to produce any significant results (even though i don't doubt the allegations for a second) dozens of people killed by medical personell would have been a prototypical case.

Nice reminder there LL. Typical mass media to just forget that happened. Kill'em before they drown...........great logic............especially when they could have been evacuated

Yes I fell out with a relative who's been a geriatric nurse for decades, because they constantly talked about the 'hastening' of the death of patients, but wouldn't turn whistleblower.

What was most disturbing was that being a 'bothersome' patient had more to do with it than any suffering of those 'relieved' of their lives.

Bottom line on this is that 'the bottom line' dictates that investigating the death of every old person isn't 'cost effective' so just doesn't happen and 'acceptable proof' disapears.

Uh, Nakash, apparently your hotshot school isn't so hotshot

err...Excuse me, but Canada's best medical School, and the best in North America second only perhaps to John Hopkins or Mayo Clinic *isn't* hot ? Damn, I better find something to put in that resume than (maybe having debated David Icke on ATS will be cool). OK, Bsl, I'll tell you that mentioning Hitler was indeed a cheap debating trick, and I ask for your forgiveness on that one (and if I was also rude).

Nakash, how dare you!

A medical student from one of Nth. America's best medical schools and you haven't learned to, straight up, advocate all medical ending of life?

How will "they" convince the world that NOT KILLING is IMMORAL, with people like you getting about and opening their mouths?

You may want to learn to lie about your opinion untill you get that ticket, lest "they" create a reason to fail you.

It comforts me to know you are at least aware that there is a 'slippery slope' and warn others to watch their step. I know that to be the behaviour of a good man, but it seems there are so few left, folk don't recognise them anymore.

Yes, Nakash, suzy ryan is right. How dare you betray the medical community by not bowing down to the death cult we apparently follow? And how DARE you have an opinion of your own? You know as well as I do that when you get a medical degree with your name on it, you are forever brainwashed and can never ever ever disagree with any other doctors! None of us ever give second opinions or disagree because then we couldn't convince people to kill babies, like suzy ryan says. Gosh, I wish we were ALL as smart as suzy ryan and knew everything in all places of eternity forever and always.

::sarcash off::

~MFP

Hey suzy, my granny was a gynecologist for 60 years, and she NEVER performed an abortion. People with ethics exist, and the medical community is far from lenient on the abortion issue. I'd say it's a 50 50 situation. I will shut until I get my degree, lest the man try to pull one on me

[edit on 18-3-2006 by Nakash]