This topic was very good until mix with religion. I believe Christian believes are limiting undo's views and perception and are moving her research in wrong way. Reason for that is that she uses controversial book of Revelation, which IMHO is just a fictional book, not part of the original bible.

Of course there are connections between all major religion and Sumerian culture which has affected all of them as it pre-dates them and it comes from nearby territory, but I believe that research should be focused on Sumerian only without the author trying to make biblical connection to satisfy her own religious needs.

Also just to note that I've read only first 25 pages, and I doubt that I will finish the rest as whole story shifted into religion.

Originally posted by vietifulJoe
This topic was very good until mix with religion. I believe Christian believes are limiting undo's views and perception and are moving her research in wrong way. Reason for that is that she uses controversial book of Revelation, which IMHO is just a fictional book, not part of the original bible.

Of course there are connections between all major religion and Sumerian culture which has affected all of them as it pre-dates them and it comes from nearby territory, but I believe that research should be focused on Sumerian only without the author trying to make biblical connection to satisfy her own religious needs.

Also just to note that I've read only first 25 pages, and I doubt that I will finish the rest as whole story shifted into religion.

Those are historically valid texts. If we didn't have them, more than half the picture would be lost. They also contain prophetical writings. Do you believe prophecy is impossible? I'm concerned that some folks are tossing out the historical value of the bible because it's popular to do so at the moment. Just because it's the "in" thing to do, doesn't mean it's correct.

Originally posted by vietifulJoe
This topic was very good until mix with religion. I believe Christian believes are limiting undo's views and perception and are moving her research in wrong way. Reason for that is that she uses controversial book of Revelation, which IMHO is just a fictional book, not part of the original bible.

Of course there are connections between all major religion and Sumerian culture which has affected all of them as it pre-dates them and it comes from nearby territory, but I believe that research should be focused on Sumerian only without the author trying to make biblical connection to satisfy her own religious needs.

Also just to note that I've read only first 25 pages, and I doubt that I will finish the rest as whole story shifted into religion.

I was wondering if anyone else felt that there seemed to be a heavy biblical emphasis. I don't mean to step on your toes, undo because you have obviously done so much more homework on this topic than I have but as I non-Christian I often found myself lost... I don't even have a bible. I think it would be great to include more cross-cultural references. It would be a good way to appeal to a wider audience (the more of us there are who are working on this, the better) and further bolster all the hard work you've invested in building this case.

Perhaps the reason why half the case falls apart is precisely because most of the connections you discovered happen to come from biblical sources. The bible is an attractive source because it is accessible to a wide western audience and older than many other sources at our disposal. I don't want to tell anyone how to do their research but I think any ultimate theories are more likely to gain wider acceptance if they are based on a variety of sources from around the globe. I certainly plan to contribute from sources other than the bible when I can but it would be nice to have some help. I envy you for being able to invest so much time in this endeavor, undo.

Can we try to connect the Sumerians to other sources? I don't even know how reliable the bible is but I have heard that it was edited several times and that a LOT of things were cut from it before it ever reached the public masses. I have a hard time taking what I have heard from it literally so I've been trying to envision biblical quotations in terms of phenomenon that would have existed at that point in history-- but it's more guesswork and imagination than the acquisition of factual knowledge for me.

By the way, I don't believe in prophets. I believe in charisma.

[edit on 29-5-2007 by X-tal_Phusion]

Originally posted by tungus

Here is the quote from the original post about the talking wall that gives advice. It's on the first page of the thread actually, I thought it was buried somewhere.

Yes I knew about undo's talking wall in the ziggurat... I just never connected that with the Wailing wall concept

Originally posted by airtrax007
I think the ancients were a little confused with the description

Yes I agree with that assessment... they tried to mimic what they heard about or maybe even saw, but could not understand. And thus real events get told as "religious symbols" because they could not make it work so only had fragments of the truth

Without the biblical and extra-biblical (Enoch, Jasher, etc) writings, we would have no clue what Enki and Enlil were actually up to, what the Anunnaki were doing, and how all this impacted the human race. We would have only the mainstream view of their time. The problem is, the humans were slaves and had to maintain their history via oral tradition for thousands of years. This is why Moses tells them to ask the respected elders, their fathers and grandfathers, etc, about the past, as it was their job to maintain the oral records until such time as it was written down. Take away the bible, and Sumer becomes a big, jumbled up, battle between the "gods", that half the time makes no sense.

For example, in the Akkadian/Sumerian version of the events leading up the mesopotamian flood, Enlil had a hissy fit because people were too noisy and so he decided to destroy the planet. The term "noisy" is incorrectly translated. It wasn't that we were too noisy, it was a reference to massive pollution - genetically, environmentally, morally, etc. Humans had almost been entirely bred out of the population by wars and hybridization, when the "sons of God" (the fallen ones in this instance), saw the daughters of men were "fit extensions." And later, when the pollution grew so bad, the food sources ran out, and the hybrids in the first known survival of the fittest scenario, ate the humans for food in a scenario not unlike "Solyent Green."

Without the biblical and pseudopigraphical texts, we wouldn't know this. We would think Enlil was some crazy guy made up in someone's head.

[edit on 29-5-2007 by undo]

Originally posted by vietifulJoe
This topic was very good until mix with religion.

I don't see how you can separate the two... as the religions were created from the ancient stories, that would make research have to include religion in the picture. We all have our own religious (or non) views, but I do not see how you can leave it out of this investigation

And as far as I can see it was mixed with religion from page one My stargate thread was originally on the more technical aspects and the theory that the show SG-1 is trying to tell us something..

Perhaps mixing the two causes some confusion, but since we began, my research and Undo's has overlapped on several key points

Originally posted by vietifulJoe
This topic was very good until mix with religion.

I don't have a problem with religion. I'm just happy that they don't burn people at the stake anymore.

Although, some religions still burn buildings if they don't like what others say or draw rather.

[edit on 30-5-2007 by tungus]

Originally posted by zorgon
Yes I knew about undo's talking wall in the ziggurat... I just never connected that with the Wailing wall concept

Really? I thought you were being sarcastic at my feeble attempt to move the discussion away from the toilet fixation of some of our friends.

I don’t really know why people bang their heads at this particular wall (The Wailing wall), why not bang your head at any wall?

My thinking went something like this:

Imagine stray cats at the door of a benevolent homeowner. They would soon learn that if they cried, food would appear at the doorstep after some time. So they teach their young to do the same. Now imagine that “Thou shall cry at the door” becomes a religion for the countless generations of cats after the homeowner moved away. So the present day carts continue to wail at the doorstep of an empty house, because they were taught that by their elders.
Although,the cats in my analogy would have moved on long time ago.

[edit on 30-5-2007 by tungus]

Originally posted by tungus
Really? I thought you were being sarcastic at my feeble attempt to move the discussion away from the toilet fixation of some of our friends.

Yes really, we chat on the phone a lot late at night... and Zarniwoop already volunteered toilet duty to get a ride on our spaceship (funny thing is... we never put one into the design yet , slight oversite)

I don’t really know why people bang their heads at this particular wall (The Wailing wall), why not bang your head at any wall?

As far as I know it is the only surviving piece of the ancient wall of Jerusalem.. so perhaps they feel closest to God there.. I shall ask a friend of mine... he is a Rabbi

Although,the cats in my analogy would have moved on long time ago.

That only proves what the Tibetans have said all along... Cats are smarter

I have a theory on this... that I need to work on... It was enhanced today by a video someone sent me... I will try to put it "on paper" tomorrow after I am awake... its like one of those DOH moments, but to me it answers a whole lot of questions related to just what we are talking about. I want to run it by Pegasus people before posting for opinions

But I think we are on to something here... Talking Mirrors, talking to the Arc, Talking to Ziggurat walls, etc like they expect an answer.

It seems likely then that at some point in history there really WAS an answer, and now, like your cats, we are going through the motions.. and write about it in fairy tales

The Universe works in mysterious ways... thanks for opening this door


[edit on 30-5-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by undo
Those are historically valid texts. If we didn't have them, more than half the picture would be lost. They also contain prophetical writings. Do you believe prophecy is impossible? I'm concerned that some folks are tossing out the historical value of the bible because it's popular to do so at the moment. Just because it's the "in" thing to do, doesn't mean it's correct.

It is your wish to move this into religious research, but before we proceed any further, let's talk first about Book of Revelation.

From all text that can have historical value, you're citing Revelation, which is known to have been written long after main part of the bible. Visions were given to someone who was in exile. Real reason of exile is unknown, and person referred to him self as John. IMHO this never should have been part of the Bible, but was added later in revisions. (something we know today like patches and updates from Microsoft) Now, are you trying to tell me that previous Bible wasn't good enough and was in the need of updates? Also why updaets stopped? Why new updates were not added later??

You asked me if I believe in prophecies, and answer is no, I don't. I believe that Bible is holding a lot of historical facts, like King's list, but that's not parallel account but just re-written account from Sumerian historical books. Same goes for other major religion. Note that most of the big ones come from places that are very close to the Sumerian culture, which is good sign that Sumerian influenced them all. There are just to many signs of plagiarism that is hard to assume that they had parallel accounts.

So, IMHO if you like to make links to Bible as source of historical facts, then don't use fictional (or prophetical) part of it. It is weakening scientific base of your research.

Of course, I'm not thinking about what audience you're targeting, and I'm aware that this book (meaning your third book) might do well in Christians religious communities.

Hope I'm not spoiling your topic. Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate your research, but I think that it might have been much better if you exclude your own religion out of it.

Originally posted by tungus
I don't have a problem with religion. I'm just happy that they don't burn people at the stake anymore.

Although, some religions still burn buildings if they don't like what others say or draw rather.

Because of religions humanity lost great number of lives, great people were killed because they thought different and more advanced then their time, buildings and artifacts have been destroyed... Anyone remember those Budha statues in Afghanistan or Solomon Temple...

But there are good aspects of religions. They give people more moral lessons in the time humanity needed them. Let's not forget that ancient cultures include a lot of barbaric customs... Still, apparantly God wasn't clear enough...

Let's for end quote Isaak Asimov on religion:

I don't believe in an afterlife, so I don't have to spend my whole life fearing hell, or fearing heaven even more. For whatever the tortures of hell, I think the boredom of heaven would be even worse.

"...if I were not an atheist, I would believe in a God who would choose to save people on the basis of the totality of their lives and not the pattern of their words. I think he would prefer an honest and righteous atheist to a TV preacher whose every word is God, God, God, and whose every deed is foul, foul, foul."

Originally posted by undo
Without the biblical and extra-biblical (Enoch, Jasher, etc) writings, we would have no clue what Enki and Enlil were actually up to, what the Anunnaki were doing, and how all this impacted the human race. We would have only the mainstream view of their time. The problem is, the humans were slaves and had to maintain their history via oral tradition for thousands of years. This is why Moses tells them to ask the respected elders, their fathers and grandfathers, etc, about the past, as it was their job to maintain the oral records until such time as it was written down. Take away the bible, and Sumer becomes a big, jumbled up, battle between the "gods", that half the time makes no sense.

This would make sense if Sumerian, Egyptian and for example Chinese culture didn't develop writing much before Moses told that.

Someone else early suggested that your time line are wrong and suggestion that Bible is wrong while prophetic part of Bible you're talking for correct is not helping.

I don't have a problem reading about Sumer without bible. More correct would be to say that if you take Sumerian culture out, Bible would have a lot of empty space.

magnito_student, you have actually hit the nail right on the head there. Go to the Top of the Class.
Close Encounters of the Third Kind, StarGate(the film), StarGate SG1(the T.V. series) are actually based on real events that happened. They are all part of the Security Agencies programme of dis-information in which they attempt to hood-wink us all into believing that it's just Science Fiction and not Science Fact.
I will give you three quotes from prominent individuals of high rank. These will throw some light and credance on my view-points.
Firstly from, Ben Rich, former Head of the Lockheed Skunk Works at a lecture; We already have the means to travel among the Stars, but these Technologies are locked up in Black Projects and it would take an Act of God to ever get them out to benefit Humanity.
Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do.
Secondly, from, Paul Czysz, Ph. D. Professor of Aeronautical Engineering at McDonnell-Douglas; When I was at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, we had Flying Saucers that covered the distance from Columbus to Detroit at the equivalent of 20,000 miles per hour. Zero Point Energy represents about 40-50 megawatts of power per cubic inch of space. That's a lot of power. If you couldtap it at will, then no one would have to sell gasoline or oil anymore.(The quote goes on further).
Thirdly from, Victor Marchetti, former Special Assistant to the Executive Director of the C.I.A.(1979); We have already been contacted by Extra-Terrestrial Beings and the U.S. Government, in collusion with other National Powers of the Earth, is determined to keep this information away from the General Public. The purpose of the Inter-Nation conspiracy concerning the reality of UFO's is to maintain a workable stability amongst the Nations of the World and for them, in turn, to retain institutional control over their respective populations.(The quote further goes on)
These quotes are from twenty pages of quotes from individuals of similar standing and can be found at; www.paradigmresearchgroup.org/QuotesPage
Happy reading of the full quotes.

Thanks for that link. Seems a lot of good material there..

But their task was complete...

The sheeple are compliant and it will take an act of God or an Alien Invasion to wake them up

the stargate show and the military? i have heard on ats from threads and members that stargate is the only sci fi show that has to consult the military on what it can show.any help with a link would be nice,for i am a link novice.

Originally posted by vietifulJoe


This would make sense if Sumerian, Egyptian and for example Chinese culture didn't develop writing much before Moses told that.

Someone else early suggested that your time line are wrong and suggestion that Bible is wrong while prophetic part of Bible you're talking for correct is not helping.

I don't have a problem reading about Sumer without bible. More correct would be to say that if you take Sumerian culture out, Bible would have a lot of empty space.

Did you notice the writing is all from the royals and their scribes, of the time? The royals were hybrids and their scribes were their offspring, who were therefore, also hybrids (just not as much). The bulk of the people on the planet, were human, or rather human slaves - this includes the hebrews, btw.



[edit on 31-5-2007 by undo]