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posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by ForwardDrift
reply to post by undo
 


Undo,

I've been reading your thread and although I have some great reservation about your "theory" (mainly due to some common sense questions, like the glaring lack of physical evidence for some of this advanced alien technology? Also, whether geological records match up to some of your thoughts about the wide extent of the flood...


Heya ForwardDrift,

I might be able to assist somewhat with these questions.

Setting the geological records aside for a moment, consider that there was a mass extinction event at the end of the Pleistocene. It completely wiped out the emerging badasses of the time, the species of the 'fittest' that had (until that point) survived all of the crap nature could throw at them. This includes the mastodons, woolly mammoths, toxodons, sabre-toothed tigers, woolly rhinos, and the giant ground sloths, which are probably the most widely known of those species that perished. In terms of mammals, over 200 species were completely wiped out. 200 entire species represents a very, very large number of individual living things. And in parts of northern Alaska and Siberia, the permanently frozen tundra there is actually comprised of what is 'politely' termed "muck".

Muck is a fine silt and bits of gravel in water mixed with dismembered and disarticulated chunks of animals and shredded and splintered fragments of various plant material, piled in some cases hundreds of feet deep atop the actual ground surface, and frozen solid. Whole forests, and millions upon millions of animals, have been blended together and laid down and preserved in these deposits.
The existence and the expanse of the muck fields have been variously exaggerated and downplayed, declaimed as God's Truth and debunked as horse sh*t, etc., but they do exist, and they are extensive. The ivory in the Siberian muck accounts for over half the world's existing ivory supply--a great many piano keys and billiard balls are made from Pleistocene Mammoth tusks found there. During the gold mining in Alaska, the miners had to dig up tons of the stuff to get at the stream beds and gravel deposits containing the gold they were after, and the machinery would warm up the deep trenches, which would start the ice melting, which would drive everyone out of the trench in a hurry because the various dead things in the ice would begin the decomposition that had been put on hold for 10k years or so. It did not smell good, and could be deadly as it produced, among other things, ammonia vapors. It was a nasty job, and the term "muck raking" is still used today as a euphemism for digging around in filth.
In addition to the muck deposits, which are mostly in the arctic circle, massive piles of mastodon and sabre-toothed tiger bones were discovered in Florida (Valentine, 1969), while mastodons, toxodons, giant sloths and other animals were found in Venezuela quick-frozen among the mountain glaciers (Berlitz, 1969). In Michigan, the skeletons of two whales were found, 440 ft. above sea level. In Vermont, a whale carcass was found 500 ft. above sea level, and one in Ontario was found at 600 ft. These were all post-glacial deposits, btw.
In Alabama and other gulf states, the bones of a species of whale known as the Zeuglodon were found in such numbers in the ground that farmers piled them up and used them for fence posts. In Georgia, there are recent marine deposits found 160 ft. above sea level with walrus remains in them.
There are caves and fjords in Europe and the UK that were found to be crammed full of crushed and splintered bones and remains of many animals, that were not a result of long human occupation as there is no layering of the deposits, but rather one single jumbled mass.
This subject is a bit of a shaky ground for mainstream scientists, mainly because Catastrophism has been linked with the Biblical Deluge and therefore branded a religious myth suitable only for people who believe in things like bearded magic men in the sky, and not something a serious educated atheist should consider. Nevertheless, the facts are there, for those willing to sift through the BS, to rake through the muck for evidence of same. You might start here and here, and work outward from there. And I'll stop, because I'm out of characters, again.




posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 06:39 AM
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Originally posted by Timely

Sorry, all I am seeing is Samurai star knives.

Japan is an old culture; maybe there is a correlation ?


Err, you mean shuriken? As in ninja throwing stars?
Japan is an old culture. It is not an ancient culture. The bas reliefs and cylinder seals I was showing are ancient, so if there is a correlation between these symbols and the appearance of ninja weapons, it is the weapons emulating the symbols and not the other way 'round, and therefore a dead end in terms of seeking the original meanings and purposes of those symbols.
Meanwhile, shuriken are still cool weapons. And ninja are still everywhere, despite no-one having seen one for hundreds of years. That actually just proves that they are really, really good at the ninja art of concealment.



posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 06:51 AM
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reply to post by Tsurugi
 


My apologies. My childhood hero ( one of them ) was Shintaro a Samurai. His sidekick - Tombay was a
Ninja. I should have known better.


The resemblance is still there; albeit by coincidence.



Ninja?? Where ?
edit on 25-4-2013 by Timely because: (no reason given)

ETA: Nice thread. I still hate the fact that so many invading powers of the past; destroyed the
collective history of their conquests. If only ....
edit on 25-4-2013 by Timely because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by ForwardDrift
 


ForwardDrift,

I had intended to address both of your questions that I quoted, but I focused on the second question regarding evidence for widespread cataclysm and never got 'round to the first; I got stuck in the muck, as it were. So this post will focus on the first question of yours which I quoted, and here quote again:

...some common sense questions, like the glaring lack of physical evidence for some of this advanced alien technology?


Well. I want to attempt to address this question, but first I'm going to take a stab at clarifying the question itself, because it takes some rather large leaps of assumption, if you'll pardon my saying so (I'm sure you were in a hurry, or something).
For instance, it makes the rather bold assumption that advanced technology of an alien race would be recognizable as such to us. This is bold, assumption-wise, for several reasons: what makes you think that discarded or lost or forgotten gadgets of a completely alien species would look anything like something we would identify as "technology"?
I recently purchased a Samsung Galaxy S3 android device, it is a powerful multiprocessor computer with enough memory to hold huge libraries inside it, and it is invisibly connected to a world's worth of such libraries, it is an HD video camera or digital still cam, it connects me instantly to nearly anyone or any place in multiple ways in real time anywhere in the world, it talks to things in space and informs me of my exact location in real time and plots that on a world map of detailed images and crowd-sourced info, it includes a magnetometer, an accelerometer, a gyroscope, a multiparameter photometer, a proximity sensor, a thermometer, and a barometer in its sensor package; it has a zillion other capabilities, too much to list here, as I'm sure you are aware.
Turn it off and it is a featureless black oblong with rounded corners, about six inches long and three across, and a quarter inch thick. It's shiny, but that's about all it has going for it powered down. It's got a few characters on it, but they are iconic logos and thus are more art than script. None of the materials comprising its makeup would be recognizable to a human a few hundred years ago. Some of them wouldn't be recognizable 50 or even 25 years ago, and its innards are the stuff of dreams a mere decade ago. And this is to fellow humans.
So the question should say "...glaring lack of physical evidence for some of this advanced alien technology that we would recognize as such".
But this leads me to another unspoken leap in the question. Back to the phone...left out in the elements it is doubtful that it would still be functional after a week. In five years it would be barely recognizable. In 1,000 years it would be impossible to tell it had even existed, much less 10-15k years like we are talking.
So it should be "...glaring lack of physical evidence for some of this advanced alien technology that we would recognize as such, and that could survive to be recognizable as such for over ten thousand years."
Now that is a much more honest question...or rather it is, I'm sure, merely the complete and unabridged version of your original shorthand--but honest--inquiry.

Now that we've got that cleared up, I'm going to be even more annoying and respond with questions of my own. Please note that these are not intended as answers; I cannot answer this question. I can only address it.

So I ask, "What makes you think advanced technology must necessarily be comprised of physical materials?"
It is not outside the realm of possibility that future tech will be almost solely comprised of energy states, tightly controlled at the quantum level. In our own tech, as miniaturization continues, we have/are/will be coming up against barriers represented by the limitations of physical matter; this is starkly illustrated by advancements in microprocessing and the conducting limits of our materials. Which are leapfrogged by quantum computing using nonlocal phenomena, i.e., we have removed physical matter from the equation to solve the problem.

In addition to that question, and as counterpoint to it as well(and also in closing), I ask:
"What makes you think no such evidence has been found?"




P.S. "Common sense", usually isn't.
edit on 13/4/25 by Tsurugi because: BBCode fail.



posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 04:22 PM
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whew, great stuff!

as far as the anu and zoroastrian sky stuff, that's definitely referencing important dates/locations of planetary bodies and stars by the use of astronomy and astrology. the sun symbol on the table before anu is potentially an astrolab. note that anu is sitting in an enclosure similar to the enclosure osiris is depicted in, in the judgement of the dead images. that may be relevant as mesopotamian and egyptian cultures were intertwined.

theoretically, when the enclosure is on the right, it may be referring to the southern hemisphere of the sky, and when on the left, the northern. the southern hemisphere in this event, would be referencing the land of the dead, the underworld but not the underLAND, but rather the undersky, thru which the various deities travelled through out the night, via various gates, etc etc.

as far as advanced tech goes, my theory is that they understood and implemented natural forces like gravity, ley lines, magnetism and sound waves, via their use of stone and its placement. so what looks like an ordinary rock or stone, may in fact, be a piece of advanced technology



posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by Tsurugi
 



Excellent response---and to your questions, I don't know---I can't assume their tech would be anything that we would recognize. However, that doesn't meant that were aliens---and the only thing we have left to go by is ancient accounts and myths. And come on, to be perfectly fair and honest--I don't think we can use those accounts to either dismiss or accept the idea of ancient aliens or a previously advanced civilization.

As for the flood, sure I can accept there was a world-wide deluge---as you indicated--geological records can support it--however, that says nothing about whether there was another advanced species or aliens or whatever before the present time.

I agree that my question had too many assumptions, but that doesn't make the theory of previously advanced aliens/beings before our time correct. And based off your logic (which, is sound logic by the by) we could potentially never have any evidence---so we would be perpetually operating of hearsay and conjecture. That is why I can't agree with this theory. Not that it isn't possible, it just that we have nothing to go on but hearsay, a few ancient stories, that may or may not myth, and a few ancient drawings that may just be artistic in nature ,rather then shoddy attempts at describing "other-worldly" beings.

You see what I mean? That isn't much to go on.


One more thing: Well, the only reason I suggest that "no such evidence has been found" is because, if there is evidence proving this theory---I haven't had access or been privy to it personally. So, I have to go with what I've been given---I have to make the most rational assumption based upon the evidence given to me. And I'm assuming there isn't a grand conspiracy to keep this knowledge from the public.

But really, my lack of knowledge about what evidence is and isn't out there doesn't make this theory correct. You have to admit, that question is a bit unfair as I'm not the one coming up with the alternative theory. You have to prove it. It isn't my job to assume you're correct.
edit on 25-4-2013 by ForwardDrift because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by ForwardDrift
 


An excellent response from you as well!

As I have allowed myself to be sucked back into reading large chunks of this thread after posting earlier, I have not slept and am thus a tad short on logical, well-ordered thought processes (shorter than usual, I mean), so I will confine myself to a similarly short reply.
In regards to the geology, my reply is, "Agreed."

In regards to the rest about ancient aliens and antediluvial advanced civilizations, my intent was not to defend the belief that they existed but rather to disabuse the belief that they did not. I myself proffer no theories regarding that or anything else...well, that is not entirely true. I have one theory which I have a growing body of solid evidence to support, and that is my theory that I will never have a theory because in all of my searching I have found many lovely questions, but not a single answer.

In any case, I find answers to be slightly sinister things in one aspect: people who believe they have found them, stop asking questions.
I agree with you that the burden of 'proof' (if there is such a thing? The Scientific Method provides only the means for falsification, not proof) lies with the one setting forth a hypothesis; as far as I can tell, Undo has done a fantastically amazing job of holding up her end of that deal, and reading through the thread shows that she willingly absorbs new information and changes and adjusts her concepts to fit that new information as necessary; she is anything but dogmatic. She is perfectly capable of defending her ideas. I am decidedly not. My area of expertise is pointing out questions, which is what I did.



posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


(Undo, very interesting reply! Please excuse the wall of questions that follow, they are a product of curiosity only. I say this because they could easily be taken as an attack, if I did not.)

Wow...so it is that heavily symbolic? To include even the direction the enclosure is facing, etc., damn.
What is it that leads you to call the big guy Anu? That is not one of the many names of the two brothers Enki and Enlil, right? I thought Anu was the Father of those two, and a 'distant' figure who only made one or two physical appearances on earth? Or have I missed something...
The idea that it may be an astrolabe is intriguing...but how does that correlate to the same symbol when it's up in the skies with the other symbols, as it often is? And your mention of Zorastarianism sailed directly over my head, I guess I will have to find out what that is before I can understand the reference.

What did you think of the Hagar Qim Altar and the similarities of major design elements to the "Serpent Crown" and/or the heavenly hat symbol?



posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 08:39 PM
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that's a good question. i don't recall where i read that it was anu in that pic. may have been michael heiser during one of his sitchin debunks or it may have been sitchin's earth chronicles. what i thought was interesting to do with the layout of the image was comparative analysis. The similarity to the egyptian version, for example: the astrolab (???) on the table in front of anu, may correlate with the four sons of horus on the lotus blossom table, in front of osiris. WHEREAS, the symbol in the astrolab is the sumerian-akkadian glyph for the sun.

only the images that depict a guy in the sky in a winged vehicle, are zoroastrian.

i'm not sure what to make of the rest of your theory. it's fascinating, and that's always a good thing.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 10:22 AM
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as far as the deluge. i think it's more than one flood, melded together in the text. there's the ice age flood, and there's the black sea flood. one of them (ice age flood) sounds like they had to take samples of as many insect and animal species as they could, perhaps in the form of dna and the other is a bad flood but not on the same scale as the ice age flood, and as a result you have 2 conflicting accounts in the text. for example, noah takes the barnyard animals. big difference. it says noah was instructed to take 7 clean animals in pairs (14) + 7 birds in pairs (14) + 2 unclean animals in pairs (4), for a grand total of 32 animals. i 'm probably leaving some out but that's not even a remotely large sampling of planet life. however, this flood correlates with the one in the epic of gilgamesh, so i think we got a match,

the big problem is, there's more information that doesn't match at all, and in some places, it's like 2 different stories, both posing as the same flood. i don't think they are the same. for example, the ice age flood, i do believe is depicted in the opening paragraph of genesis. the water receeded to reveal dry land that was already there.

so theoretically, the ice age flood was known about in advance, and they prepared for it. how? they must've known the asteroid or meteorite, was incoming. they collected as many samples as they could, and when the ice receeded they re-terraformed and repopulated the planet with wildlife and thus you see the "creation" of the animals and so on, in the text.. high tech all the way.

edit on 26-4-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 11:38 PM
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thought i would add my own theoretical timeline to the thread.

10,000 BC and earlier: Pre-human civilizations, most destroyed in the Ice Age.
10,000 BC-3000 BC: The advent of post Ice Age homo sapiens and the rise and destruction of Sumer.
3000 BC-2800 BC Historical vacuum.
2800 BC-2600 BC Nimrod/Narmer/Enmerkar sets up the first post flood empire, stretching from China to Egypt and all points inbetween.
2600 BC-2013 AD A continuous series of empires, all loosely based on Nimrod's original.

edit on 26-4-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


If there was an impact event that resulted in the end of the last Ice Age(I personally feel this is the most likely scenario), then it would have actually resulted in at least two separate 'flood' events.
The actual point of impact would have been in the ocean, not on land, resulting immediately in immense tidal waves that would have bounced around the planet many times and resulted in things like massive erratic boulders on mountaintops or that are hundreds of miles north of where they should be(what glacier moves south to north, or over a mountain?), Lake Titicaca in South America at 11,000ft. elevation and having sea horses living in it, and of course the Alaskan and Siberian "muck" I was going on about earlier and the whale bones in high elevations.
After that calmed down there would be the long chain of events leading to a global climate shift and the melting of ice and the overall rise of the world sea level.
I'm on my mobile right now so I'll elaborate later...that is, if you feel this line of thinking bears further investigation.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by undo
only the images that depict a guy in the sky in a winged vehicle, are zoroastrian.


Ahh, ok. I've gone and done some reading on Zoroastrianism in the meantime, very interesting stuff.

However...I did not post any pics that contained a dude in a winged disk or vehicle, as far as I know.
edit on 13/4/28 by Tsurugi because: General editing.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by undo
what i thought was interesting to do with the layout of the image was comparative analysis. The similarity to the egyptian version, for example: the astrolab (???) on the table in front of anu, may correlate with the four sons of horus on the lotus blossom table, in front of osiris. WHEREAS, the symbol in the astrolab is the sumerian-akkadian glyph for the sun.


Egyptian version? Had no idea such a thing existed...would it be possible to post a pic of that? Meanwhile I will look for it myself.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by Tsurugi

Originally posted by undo
what i thought was interesting to do with the layout of the image was comparative analysis. The similarity to the egyptian version, for example: the astrolab (???) on the table in front of anu, may correlate with the four sons of horus on the lotus blossom table, in front of osiris. WHEREAS, the symbol in the astrolab is the sumerian-akkadian glyph for the sun.


Egyptian version? Had no idea such a thing existed...would it be possible to post a pic of that? Meanwhile I will look for it myself.


the winged discs you posted were from zoroastrianism (and ancient egypt. remember this because this theme will keep popping up repeatedly, the more you study this stuff (et.al, egyptian themes being slightly different renditions of similar concepts to the mesopotamian themes)

the scene being depicted in egyptian version is found in the weighing of the heart ceremony. check it out on google.

here's a page with the image
faculty.uml.edu...
edit on 28-4-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by undo
the scene being depicted in egyptian version is found in the weighing of the heart ceremony. check it out on google.


Okay. I found these (which I am posting as clickable links to the full versions because there's a lot of detail in these images).

Edit: Okay, I see you posted a link to it, I missed that earlier, haha. The first image in my list is what is shown in your link, I think.











edit on 13/4/28 by Tsurugi because: Missed stuff.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


I guess I don't know enough symbolism, because aside from the seated guys both facing left, I cannot see any connections.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Tsurugi
reply to post by undo
 


I guess I don't know enough symbolism,


i don't either, but what i do see is --

1. both are in enclosures
2. both are facing left
3. both contain lesser gods being presented to a seated, higher god.by a guide/representative
4. both contain tables holding significant artifacts associated with the higher god, situated directly in front of the higher god.
5. both display heavenly bodies for some reason. in anu's case, there's the moon, sun and star symbol, inside his enclosure. in the egyptian version, the entire scene is potentially a double for a constellations map.
6. both appear to be sitting on top of temple buildings of some kind.

edit on 28-4-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2013 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


Wow...well you know a lot more symbolism than I do, haha...lesser gods? Guides? I didn't know any of that. Thanks!



posted on Apr, 30 2013 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by Tsurugi
reply to post by undo
 


Wow...well you know a lot more symbolism than I do, haha...lesser gods? Guides? I didn't know any of that. Thanks!


well the egyptians believed their pharaohs were gods. i believe that level of authority was extended to their immediate families and priests that officiated their mummifications and burials. in the sumerian scene, which is probably later than sumer, a priest (wearing the funky hat (which sitchin called "the hat that makes one go far," from his translation of one of the texts)) is officiating the scene, the guy in the front is introducing the guy in the middle to anu, so he's acting like a guide.

in the egyptian scene, the person
(pharaoh) who's heart is being weighed, is being introduced by a guide (horus) to osiris. note also anubis (the wolf headed dude) is officiating the weighing of the heart against the feather of truth.

so you have priests officiating. guides introducing VIPs to higher gods.
in enclosures, with tables containing important artifacts.
looking left. on top of temples. lol

so they have very similar themes, albeit somewhat different in approach and complexity.
i don't think they would've went to the trouble to carve the sumerian one, if the person being introduced to anu, was not a VIP. in much the same way as a pharaoh was a VIP.

edit on 30-4-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)





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