Stargates are real

Undo what are your thoughts on Jesus Christ?


And to the above poster that used the scripture from gen. regarding "us" you should read about the Trinity instead of trying to come up with many different gods. John 1:1 comes to mind. "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" John 1:11 "and the Word became manifest and dwelt among them" The Word is Christ.

Hi everyone

I am pleased to announce that Undo will be my guest on the show on Friday April 21st, and nearer the date I will be opening a thread in the Now THAT'S Weird forum here on ATS for you to post questions I will put to her during the interview.

Its a fascinating topic, and an interview I am greatly looking forward to.

Ross

[edit on 12-3-2006 by nomadrush]

Good reading, good writing. I haven't gone into your e-books yet, but I have worked my way through the entirety of the thread, and I'm generally pleased and awed.

The first place I want to take my post is the most negative one, and that's your present disagreement with Indellkoffer.

I'll comment on it through an anecdote. I dabble in theories about theoretical physics. In no way am I a trained physicist - I am a graduating High School student, who happens to have a bit of an aptitude for it. In general, some of the broad sweeping themes in what I think of can end up being very good - I presented a general theory of all the things I've thought and assimilated to my physics teacher, and asked him to tell me the most basic thing I had to fix. He submitted that he was considerably more active as a particle physicist than as a cosmological or theoretical astrophysics physicist - but that in his general knowledge and general interest, he didn't see anything that jumped out and said "I'm wrong, fix me" - and he thought that it was definitely an interesting perspective.

I was rather proud at this, and still am. However, the devil is in the details. I had a fairly good general system. A general set up for the Universe that made Gravity an indirect effect of a force that is acting in 6 dimensions (That is, 6 spatial dimensions). Then I tried to make a lot of the smaller pieces of things I knew fit into it, and this is where it became convoluded and I became stuck.

No longer was I defining, in broad terms, the universe as it can be known - now I was defining, very specifically, individual interactions as they are known. And here I would get several conflicting ideas, take only things I liked/felt I could use, and ignore the things that just did not work.

Indellkoffer appears to hold a degree in History with some specific specialization - and as such, while she has been trained in the system, it does not mean immediately that she is not valuable, or is unable to think on her own. Consider that she over the age of 35 (I assume, as she references herself being a Grandma as of last year) and has been posting here, at a site known as the "Above Top Secret Conspiracy Community" for nearly 2 years. She can't be too in-the-box and closedminded.

You definitely have some amazing, amazing insight into this - the amount of research you've done is phenomenal, and the conclusions you've drawn in the broad sweeping strokes seem staggeringly plausible. For a great, great part of what you've said, I wholeheartedly agree. I've waded through literally hundreds upon hundreds of threads in here, and while I didn't really like the way this has started, this has been one of the best ones I have read to date. It is only beginning to show signs of serious stress at about 10 pages, it and hasn't been invaded and ruined by idiots. Additionally, you have a remarkable ability to read people's posts, and to write answers to them, in a coherent and readable manner. It's great.

But you seem to have done the same thing I did, and that is, got caught on a minor issue. Something that you particularly liked that made perfect sense when you first saw it, you're fitting it into the infrastructure you've already built out of your knowledge, and the few things that work you're taking over the massive amount of stuff that just doesn't fit. The most particular thing here is the impregnating/first born business. While there was something to it at first, there isn't necessarily any more. The First Born would generally be the oldest, and the greatest help to the parents, as they are most able to work - if you kill them, you severely damage the family. Also, not every family has 2 kids yet. Sure, most have 4,5,6 or more - but new ones might only have 1. If you kill First Born as opposed to 3rd born, you hurt the greatest number. Also, you remove the person who has been trained as the heir.

Indellkoffer has given some very good skepticism in this, and it would seem that the theory that the Annunaki (either directly, or through the greatly influenced Osiris/et al guy) impregnated the wives-to-be before the husbands could get there, is going out of our view of plausibility. It doesn't demerit your general theory at all, it just crosses a few things out. It could come back, given some new evidence - but don't expect it to. Clinging to it and holding to something that was only tenuously supposed in the beginning is a good mixture for making yourself look less knowledgeable than you are. You need to adapt to this situation, take it in stride, stop focusing on the children/firstborns, and spend more time with the folks in this thread and the elongated heads issue. If that begins to cave, move back to the general stuff.

It will save you a lot of time and a lot of thinking to allow your theories to be shelved when someone poses a serious threat to them - I'm not saying don't fight, I'm just saying don't cling beyond reason.

I had more to say, that was actually on topic (goodness I'm sorry if I sounded really condescending, I didn't mean to) but I have to go for the moment. Truly great read thus far.

Originally posted by rich34
Undo what are your thoughts on Jesus Christ?


And to the above poster that used the scripture from gen. regarding "us" you should read about the Trinity instead of trying to come up with many different gods. John 1:1 comes to mind. "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" John 1:11 "and the Word became manifest and dwelt among them" The Word is Christ.

Jesus is my Savior. Thanks for quoting that verse, btw. John is a very good book.

Viendin,

Thanks for the kind words. The hints are when she says the skulls are normal. Those are not normal skulls. Have you ever seen anyone with a skull like that? Neither have I. And yet all those mummies have elongated skulls and they weren't head binders in Egypt. Nor was it the result of disease. Nor was it the result of inbreeding. the only explanation they have for it is interbreeding but they have no clue what kind and with what group, would cause elongated skulls like that, because none of the other races have elongated skulls.

For it to be "normal" you would think someone would've met somebody with a head shaped like that.

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by rich34
Undo what are your thoughts on Jesus Christ?


And to the above poster that used the scripture from gen. regarding "us" you should read about the Trinity instead of trying to come up with many different gods. John 1:1 comes to mind. "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" John 1:11 "and the Word became manifest and dwelt among them" The Word is Christ.

Jesus is my Savior. Thanks for quoting that verse, btw. John is a very good book.

Yes, He is mine too. John is a very good book and imo the first book that someone should read that is just now coming to know Christ.

Another comment on the "Us" reference. The Bible also uses this reference when God came down and confused the people by changing the languages at the tower of babel. Imo and probably your's it's the Godhead. The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by rich34

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by rich34
Undo what are your thoughts on Jesus Christ?


And to the above poster that used the scripture from gen. regarding "us" you should read about the Trinity instead of trying to come up with many different gods. John 1:1 comes to mind. "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" John 1:11 "and the Word became manifest and dwelt among them" The Word is Christ.

Jesus is my Savior. Thanks for quoting that verse, btw. John is a very good book.

Yes, He is mine too. John is a very good book and imo the first book that someone should read that is just now coming to know Christ.

Another comment on the "Us" reference. The Bible also uses this reference when God came down and confused the people by changing the languages at the tower of babel. Imo and probably your's it's the Godhead. The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.

Well I know for certain the Angels were involved in the Tower of Babel because ... well have you read anything by Michael S. Heiser? He's got a great write up on the Divine Council. Here's another one that basically says the same thing (read this!!! honestly, trust me on this one!!!)
users.aristotle.net...

Originally posted by undo
Let's just say I think you're stuck in a rut, a careful, calculating, well-documented rut, but a rut nonetheless. However, you have this tendency to ignore major themes, which I think is the result of learning history from only a select group of scholars and nothing else matters.

But, aren't you picking and choosing evidence from the same scholars I am? I used your sources and simply read them -- the texts about "watchers" were there for you to read. All you had to do was look at the symbol, see that out of the thousands of examples that word was used one time, and then click on the word itself to see that it came from a letter about grain shipments. Click on THAT and you can see the original letter (in all its glory)... click on the words themselves and you can see that it's about soldiers and protecing grain from evil.

I wasn't using any sources other than the ones you used.

You're in some kind of denial. This is the problem with history today. The big guys don't want to back pedal so we are stuck with the mess history is in today, such as the incorrect dates given for the egyptian civilization based on only half the information they had available at the time because those other books mentioned supernatural events.

Maybe you might change your mind if you'd met some of my mentors and professors. I think you'd like them, and I think you might come to very differnent conclusions when you see how they research things -- as compared to the very superficial research done by a lot of websites.

"How could the Greeks have preserved authentic histories reaching back 2000 years before the time of Christ, if they did not even know how to write till the seventh century before our era?"

Yeppers, them're the first skeptics using their noodles. And today, we still have to live with their fudged up timeline because they don't want to backpedal.

Okay... now, do the research: Pick something with an oral tradition (songs) and look at all the existant versions of the very oldest folk songs. Here we've got oral tradition handed down for thousands of years. But if you start researching these songs (or the tales or the myths) you find out pretty soon that when they arrive in a different area, they start taking on the flavor of that area. This happens in Egypt with the blending of the gods.

But, a good example is the old medieval folk song about Lady Isabel and the Elfin/Elf Knight. One variation is Outlandish Knight then there's Seventh Sister, Pretty Gold Leaf, Young Jimmie, Mary's Parrot, one variant of Pretty Polly, Willow Tree, one variant of King's Daughter, and Salt-Water Sea (to name a few.) There's no way to tell the first version though we can kind of piece it out with "how different are the tales" and we can sort of figure out the music as it was originally written.

Now, a lot of the things you're talking about were written down by the people. But the evidence includes more than just the few things you're looking at. If you only look at a few things, you can tweak the story however you like. But when you start looking at everything -- at the humble little things, you get a different picture.

That's the difference between your research and the research of my teachers: they didn't look at something and say "oh! That's it! It fits with my theory!"

They went back to the real words and to all the other documents from that time.

The story of Hathor, for instance, shows up in a number of contexts... and the bit about Ra's Eye... well, he had two. Hathor and Bast.

And Ra is not the oldest god, by the way. The first one recognized was Horus. Horus, Hathor, and Bast are the three oldest and Bast isn't the fluffy-sex-kitten goddess written about by that dear old gossip, Heroditus.

Reading Heroditus will show you just how badly in the ancient world can misunderstand what they're writing about in another area of the world. He's considered a popular source, but if you read him and then read other writings, it's pretty evident that he showed up in an area and they said "oh goodie! Tourist with money!!! Let's show him all the fun stuff and make up stuff so he's entertained!"

In fact, if you read the histories, you find they make up stuff or are in error. Tacitus, (I think it was Tacitus... one of the historians of Rome) writes about a woman who gave birth to a calf in the middle of the Forum. Others write about African tribes that had no heads and had mouths in their stomachs.

A good researcher never sneers at what's been done before. Even the myths are enlightening (like the old folksongs about Lady Isabel that I mentioned) because they can teach you about times and places and things and what people liked. A good researcher doesn't just pick out little things that support their idea and present that as fact. My teachers always insisted that we read up as much as we could of the original texts and culture and who was trading with who and when this was (yes, those timelines you don't like and can't resolve).

And my Bible history teacher always made us look at the Bible AND culture and archaeology. You would have hated that course, I think, but it made us aware of what was going on in the Holy Land in the 1950's and how they matched timelines up with the Bible (and what stuff didn't match. Back then, they had no record of King David anywhere except in the Bible and so he couldn't honestly be placed in history. And it would have been dishonest to invent a time fo him.)

Anyway, I wish you could have learned from the wonderful teachers we had. I think you might do your research very differently (have you ever had to slog through the Latin Vulgate with dictionaries to answer a question about what a Bible verse REALLY said? I have! What a pain!!) I think you would have found them wonderful and eye-opening, and I think you might have a very different view of scholars.

...and a very different view of Sitchin, too, particularly after you checked his translations with the words that were really written and the other contexts that they appear in.

A

Originally posted by undo
Jesus is my Savior.

That's interesting, given the subject matter of the thread.

May I ask, sincerely, how you reconcile your belief in Christian mythology of Jesus as the incarnate Son of God with your belief in aliens, interdimensional travel and the other themes of your Stargate work?

Originally posted by VelvetSplash

Originally posted by undo
Jesus is my Savior.

That's interesting, given the subject matter of the thread.

May I ask, sincerely, how you reconcile your belief in Christian mythology of Jesus as the incarnate Son of God with your belief in aliens, interdimensional travel and the other themes of your Stargate work?

Sure. First, I don't believe Jesus is a myth. Secondly, I don't believe the ancient texts of the various races are myths. I think they are all historical. And for the clincher:

God created angels and humans. The major difference between us, is we are two different creations. The fallen angelic beings are from other places in the universe, other planets, et.al, they are stuck with us in this physical dimension. I believe God, Jesus and the "Holy Angels" are in a different "Dimension" than us. The "Holy" angels can traverse across the boundaries between these dimensions. The fallen ones no longer can. That's my working theory. So I believe, essentially, that fallen angels are aliens who can traverse the reaches of space, but not the other "dimensions" (whatever those are). I don't, at this point, believe in duplicate dimensions, such as those depicted in the show "Sliders" where the same people were living various lives in various alternate versions of reality. Rather I think the other "dimensions" are actual separate places, which you are not a part of until you go there. The end game of that is, that when you pass on from your physical body, you will have access to the alternate dimension, the one your physical form cannot be in because of your current composition. I hope that made sense.

Indelhoffer,

Have you even read anything I've said or just assumed I'm Sithcin in disguise or something? Did you actually LOOK at the skulls? If your teachers think those skulls are normal, they are lying to you.

undo,

could you please send me the info needed to read your books? I would greatly appreciate it. thank you

Rather I think the other "dimensions" are actual separate places, which you are not a part of until you go there. The end game of that is, that when you pass on from your physical body, you will have access to the alternate dimension, the one your physical form cannot be in because of your current composition. I hope that made sense.

You know, that actually makes alot of sense. If the soul/spirit is what I think it is (energy), then that would explain how we could then travel at faster than the speed of light without all the negative effects of space travel (cosmic rays, no air to breathe, extreme tmperatures, etc.). Very interesting...I can't wait to read more on this. You have alot of knowledge Undo, very nice thread, again.

I meant to quote you on that Undo, sorry.

I've never seen Starg Gate SG1...or stargate...is it any good? Is it worth it to watch it? And the books? Will somebody fill me in please...I am lost...

Originally posted by whitelightwolf
I've never seen Starg Gate SG1...or stargate...is it any good? Is it worth it to watch it? And the books? Will somebody fill me in please...I am lost...

Stargate the movie and the TV show are about the same concept but with a slightly different turn. The heroes of the show take on the role "Nimrod" played at the Tower of Babel, that being that humans can fight the "gods," with human technology, such as the aliens in the movie and TV show, or even technology from other alien races who supposedly support humanity. In the show, the supportive race of aliens look like greys but with reddish skin. Greys are bad news, for the record. They've hurt entirely too many people. I don't see how it could be suggested that they are nice aliens, with our best interests at heart. Sorta like the brilliant idea of teaching us how to make weapons.

The e-books are mine. They aren't about the movie or TV show, Stargate. But they are about a piece of technology that harnasses and creates a wormhole.

[edit on 12-3-2006 by undo]

Originally posted by bambam272
I meant to quote you on that Undo, sorry.

No worries.

Originally posted by johnny bravo
undo,

could you please send me the info needed to read your books? I would greatly appreciate it. thank you

the links are in this thread, around the fourth page, I believe. posted by Beer_Guy

[edit on 12-3-2006 by undo]

It was going so well untill people started mentioning that Jesus Guy.

You know it is possible to discuss a subject without asking people if they have accepted Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour although you wouldn't think so reading many ATS threads.

By all means believe what you want to believe but sometimes I get the feeling there's a band of militant Christians sat in front of a computer somewhere waiting to meddle in any subject that might possibly cast doubt on or question the Bible of their faith.

Show me any evidence that the Christian Jesus bares any relation to the historical one and then we'll talk, but untill that time let's stay on the path of this rather excellent subject and save the Evangelical ranting for another day.

Originally posted by Hammer of God
It was going so well untill people started mentioning that Jesus Guy.

You know it is possible to discuss a subject without asking people if they have accepted Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour although you wouldn't think so reading many ATS threads.

By all means believe what you want to believe but sometimes I get the feeling there's a band of militant Christians sat in front of a computer somewhere waiting to meddle in any subject that might possibly cast doubt on or question the Bible of their faith.

Show me any evidence that the Christian Jesus bares any relation to the historical one and then we'll talk, but untill that time let's stay on the path of this rather excellent subject and save the Evangelical ranting for another day.

Well, my Jesus rant is slightly different. I believe pollution, war, pretty much everything you can name that's wrong with the world, is the result of people in high places following the guidance of the fallen angels, either directly or via some kind of mental suggestion. I believe Jesus is going to fix that. Permanently. I don't think there's anything wrong with believing in Jesus, but there's something wrong with how people put that belief into action. We're faulty, and if observing any particular group of religious OR non-religious people doesn't convince you of that, you aren't looking.