You assumed I was something based on your preconceived notions.
My conclusions are different to yours. You cant really derive wide sweeping conclusions about my motives and beliefs from such a few paragraphs.
I disagree subz. I had no preconceived notions of you at all. While I do appreciate that this thread may not have given me enough information about
you to make a sweeping accusation, my assumption was based solely on your writing and not on anything else. I am not one of those folks who'll wildly
accuse others of bigotry just because they criticize Israel. Hopefully we can move on from here.
if you compared the Middle East of the time you are referring to with Europe at the same time, the Middle East would of been more accommodating.
Well, in that case we are in agreement. However, it is telling that one could consider the oppression that occurred in the ME tolerable only because
it pales in comparison to the atrocities that happened in Europe. I think it adds credence to the idea that there existed a real need for Jews
worldwide to find a lasting solution to centuries of persecution.
My anti-Zionist stance has nothing to do with Judaism. It simply is my view that Zionists are racial/religious bigots who literally believe they have
a God given right to do what they want with a large swathe of the Middle East.
Interesting. I had been wondering what it was about the basic tenets of Zionism that could make you so resolutely anti-Zionist and refute the movement
so wholeheartedly. I think we've gotten to the root of the mystery though.
Unfortunately, I think you are probably guilty of making the same kind of assumptions based on limited evidence that you just accused me of. While
there are certainly religious Zionists in existence who stake their claim to Palestine on the notion that it was divinely bequeathed to them they are
in no way representative of the vast majority of modern Zionists. More importantly, this view was completely absent from the philosophy that the
original Zionists created in their quest for self-determination. In fact, the historical figures who played key roles in defining the Zionist
philosophy and turning it into a viable movement were not only generally secular, but Socialist. The Socialist underpinnings of Zionism are evident in
the governing philosophy of the Kibbutzes and collective farms that served as the backbone of the Zionist movement in British Mandated Palestine.
Even the father of Zionism, Hertzl, originally did not care to make a Jewish state in Palestine, preferring an alternate plan to base the nation in
Uganda. To say that the ideals of Zionism lie in the belief that Israel was bestowed upon the Jews by God is just completely incorrect.
In fact, within the Jewish community there remains one group who resolutely disagree with Zionism and it is no coincidence that they are
ultra-Orthodox. The very religious believe that only God himself can give Israel back to the Jews. To try and take it back by force before the Messiah
comes is tantamount to blasphemy.
There is a religious Zionist movement who are outspoken in their belief that Israel is theirs by divine right, they unsurprisingly make up a large
percentage of the settler movement. But to say that the belief of this small, fringe group is shared by most Israelis or is the dominant reasoning
behind Zionism shows a fundamental misunderstanding of both the motives behind Israel's creation and the history of how Zionism came into being.
I am blown away that there are people out there who really think that religious zealotry was the driving force behind Zionism. Where have you been
learning about Israel's history that you would accept this kind of gross distortion as an accepted fact? Really, I am genuinely curious, what kind of
stuff do you read on this topic? Is this view of Zionism something specific you learned somewhere or is it a conclusion that you came to yourself?
