Originally posted by Beachcoma
Frosty, are you involved in the petroleum industry? I noticed you continuously trying to discredit 'green' alternatives. First in my thread, now in this thread? What gives?

No. Nothing, so far, has been presented that convinces me that any of what you people are saying about these oil alternatives are true. I am not a mechanical engineer, but why is it that everyone here on the board seems to think they know more than mechanical engineers? Do not you people think that at least one out of tens of thousands of ME here in the US would realize that a commercially feasible oil alternative exist for power production and for transportation (auto)?

Originally posted by StellarX


When was the last time you actually had a positive attitude towards change in this world on ANY topic? All i ever see is you shouting that ' it-can't-work' whatever the topic or your ignorance of it. What's different this time and do you for once know what your talking about?

Stellar

Please, because I do not enthusistically jump off the deep end everytime an 'oil alternative' is presented here on ATS or I am not 100% enthused by the idea and instead remain suspicous and skeptical and examine ccertain question which might need to be addressed does not indicate that I do not have a positive attitude towards change in the world.

I wouldn't be in school right now if I did not think that the material I am learning and will learn would not help me find a job and become productive.

What is different this time is nothing. I still do not see anything that convinces me that these methods are feasible. Maybe if the smell of a rendering plant were drastically cut back, they could work. But these problems and problems associated with other energy production methods need to be addressed, I don't see any concern for solving problems by a lot of ATS members.

If you want to solve the worlds energy problems, bickering with me is not going to help, neither is reading wikipedia or popular science magazines, instead go to school, learn something and then come back and embaress me with your knowledge and creativity.

until then...

Nothing, so far, has been presented that convinces me that any of what you people are saying about these oil alternatives are true.

Care to give specific examples, rather than a blanket dismissal...

Originally posted by Frosty
Please, because I do not enthusistically jump off the deep end everytime an 'oil alternative' is presented here on ATS or I am not 100% enthused by the idea and instead remain suspicous and skeptical

Well your aim seems to be to stay suspicious&skeptical whatever is being on whatever topic and that is what i find disappointing. You just seem uninterested in whatever is presented if it's not already accepted by the science community and thus in production or operation. No revolutionary you are.

and examine ccertain question which might need to be addressed does not indicate that I do not have a positive attitude towards change in the world.

You do not actually do that as much as try find reasons not to give what is being said a fair hearing. Your aim seems to involve great effort to find reasons NOT to think about the topics ( how ineffective they have been on numerous occasions in response to me) instead of just giving the topic at hand a fair chance by investigating it without running off to go find some scientist who disagrees.

I wouldn't be in school right now if I did not think that the material I am learning and will learn would not help me find a job and become productive.

Well if you want to be productive i suggest you leave school and just work for someone at minimum wage. The only thing school will do is teach you that questioning the world around you does not pay. Ever tried arguing with what the text book/teach says is reality? Formal schooling is a great scam that teaches our kids that questioning accepted standards is not profitable and that the experience is not at all 'nice'.

What is different this time is nothing. I still do not see anything that convinces me that these methods are feasible. Maybe if the smell of a rendering plant were drastically cut back, they could work.

And you keep being bothered with the small issues it seems. Do you really believe that it's the 'smell' that keeps this technology from being exploited?

But these problems and problems associated with other energy production methods need to be addressed, I don't see any concern for solving problems by a lot of ATS members.

And you do not seem concerned with thinking in general when it comes to reevaluation your prior assumptions. Problems can not be solved if they are not talked about and the solutions proposed can certainly not be implemented untill people know about it. We spread the knowledge for a reason.

If you want to solve the worlds energy problems, bickering with me is not going to help, neither is reading wikipedia or popular science magazines, instead go to school, learn something and then come back and embaress me with your knowledge and creativity.

I did not need any of that to embarrass you even if that was never the reason for me getting involved. If i can not defend my views against uninformed people such as yourself then that does not say much for me so that IS one of the reason i try to infom the likes of you.

until then...

well the education you will get will only lead you further from learning anything useful in this world so i am trying to help you before the systems beats the little self respect you retain out of you. They after all want someone who will believe anything his told as long as it's 'peer reviewed' ( we-agree-that-you-must-wrong-since-we-agree-we-can't-be) and widely touted as 'factual'( i doesn't point out any serious flaws in accepted doctrine).

Stellar

Well if you want to be productive i suggest you leave school and just work for someone at minimum wage. The only thing school will do is teach you that questioning the world around you does not pay. Ever tried arguing with what the text book/teach says is reality? Formal schooling is a great scam that teaches our kids that questioning accepted standards is not profitable and that the experience is not at all 'nice'.

You cannot smash assumptions without first knowing the basics that those assumptions are based on. I'm going into Nanomechanical Engineering, a field that has nearly infinite applicability to just about every aspect of Human life. How is that NOT practical or profitable? Stuff happens in the Nano-world that defies common sense pretty much every day.

You seem to wanna change things but don't want to do any actual work to achieve that change. Posting on ATS and spreading the meme's is a very limited avenue.

My view of Science and to a lesser extent Engineering is to do stuff no one else has done before, to question assumptions constantly, and to keep an open mind(without throwing out logic).

I wouldn't be in school right now if I did not think that the material I am learning and will learn would not help me find a job and become productive.

If that is the only reason you're continuing your schooling then I feel sorry for you. The point of life is what you make of it. You want to become a good productive member of society. Well so do I, but the way I want to be productive is not by living from within current paradigm(in my head that is).

Reality is what you make of it. The glass is either half-full or as is the case with you, half-empty.

I always assume I CAN do something until it's reasonably proven that it's not possible with current knowledge.

[edit on 5-4-2006 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by StellarX

You do not actually do that as much as try find reasons not to give what is being said a fair hearing. Your aim seems to involve great effort to find reasons NOT to think about the topics ( how ineffective they have been on numerous occasions in response to me) instead of just giving the topic at hand a fair chance by investigating it without running off to go find some scientist who disagrees.

I am not trying to find anyone who disagrees (especially not scientist), I am trying to find a reason that convinces me. What convinces me is not talk and specualtion about what if, but instead about what is being done. Who is building these large scale energy production facilities?
Most of these links are given to a college research project.

Well if you want to be productive i suggest you leave school and just work for someone at minimum wage. The only thing school will do is teach you that questioning the world around you does not pay. Ever tried arguing with what the text book/teach says is reality? Formal schooling is a great scam that teaches our kids that questioning accepted standards is not profitable and that the experience is not at all 'nice'.

How are you going to argue with a textbook in the first place? I have absolutley no idea what you are refering to or talking about, and frankly it does not make since. Textbooks are filled with facts, for a large majority of their content.

And you keep being bothered with the small issues it seems. Do you really believe that it's the 'smell' that keeps this technology from being exploited?

Yes! Chemical plants already smell bad enough refining oil, how bad do you think hundreds of tons of dead animals across from your yard is going to smell?

And you do not seem concerned with thinking in general when it comes to reevaluation your prior assumptions. Problems can not be solved if they are not talked about and the solutions proposed can certainly not be implemented untill people know about it. We spread the knowledge for a reason.

No one here is trying to identify a problem. Everybody seems intent on praising the newest link given to a sight about some sort of oil alternative. So what? Why aren't these ideas used on a large scale commercial application?

And if you know that they are such great ideas, why aren't you applying these ideas?

In my opinion there is no need for bio-fuels or just solar cars or anything else for that matter. Has anyone ever sat down and thought how much kinetic energy is not buing utilized by a car in motion and when it stops? Right now some of that energy is being retained in gas/electric hybrid cars when the vehicle is being stopped from the brakes. But how about when the car is in motion? The wind rushing over and around the car could be used to help power the electrical generator in the car. The roof and windows of the car could be used to capture solar power and the rotation of the wheels of the vehicle could also be used to help generate power. I'm not saying that no fuel such as gas would be needed but with these other factors in place that fuel consumption could be significantly less. Just an idea.