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How to mess with the Kundalini power, without getting hurt.

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posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 05:48 PM
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Howdy cobbers !

There seems to be an unhealthy interest in the Kundalini in these environs so
I thought I'd add my thoughts on the subject . ( Smile)

If you choose to act upon anything that you read here, i would politely suggest
that you first click on to MerryMistressMaries 'Chakra Balancing ' thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...
which has some nifty drawings of the chakra system superimposed on the human anatomy and some diverse' back-story' gossip or do a quick google search on the chakras or Kundalini yoga, so you have a good idea of what I'm talking about.

I will irritate some people and say that Chakra system and Sephiroth of the Qabala may have correspondences but they are not the same thing.
These Systems come at the "same" thing from a slightly different angle.
That slightly different angle makes all the difference in the world.

I think I'll start by explaining the chakra system simply.
From my point of view.
WARNING ;
You will not find some of the information here in any Yogic or Tantric texts or manuals.

There is much that can be said about the Chakra System. I'm just throwing the basics out there.
Simply put;
Every person has more than one body or vehicle, many of them non-physical.

Or to put it in another way;

A persons physical,biological body is but one aspect of a multi-dimensional omni-body that has many aspects that deal with many or all different 'levels' of reality. Usually without the persons conscious awareness or knowledge.
One such ' body ' discovered- but not created - by the Hindu Yogins is the 'chakra body" or ' chakra system '.
It's ultimate purpose is to evolve the individual into what Yogins call "Kevalin" or "Beyonder" or "Transcender' through the agency of the individuals 'life'.
This will get me into trouble with the orthodox Yoga-crew but I say that "Kevalin" also means" fully conscious Atman" or "God' or "Goddess."


Simply put again ;

The chakras are 7 wheels or globes of force located in,or corresponding to, different parts of the body or parts of the spine corresponding to, or parallel with certain parts of the body.
Each Chakra deals with a certain aspect of the "Life/reality" of a person.
1) Muladhara Chakra.
Most people agree that it is located at the base of the spine.
It deals with many matters.
We'll just call it Safety and Security.Centeredness.Integration.Synergy. Discernment and Discrimination. Dignity and Freedom.
And Fun.

2)Svadisthana chakra.
Located in the genitals or in the part of the spine paralell to the genitals.
Inspiration, Passion,Art etc

3)Manipura chakra.
Located near the belly-button.
Will.Force.Destiny etc

4)Anahata chakra
Located in the heart.
Compassion.Love.Self-Love.Harmony. Gnosis.Knowledge. Power. etc

5) Visudda chakra
Located in the throat.
Voice. Choice. Dominion.Command. unfettered Free Will. etc

6) Ajna chakra
Located just above the eyes.
Intuition . Knowing what you need to know and the power to act upon it. Knowledge of Otherworld and hidden knowledge of Self. Success etc.

7) Sahasara chakra
Some have called it " 1001 petalled Lotus " because,among other things, it is the source of all chakras.
Located at the top of the skull.
Imagination. Unfettered creativity etc.

KUNDALINI YOGA :

Before I say Anything ; Let's get the scary warning out of the way.
Best not to mess with the 'Kaula' or 'Kula' or " Kundalini" force unless you know what you are doing.
If you are not successful in activating the Kundalini, nothing will happen.
If you are successful in activitating the Kundalini and you don't know what you are doing, prepare to be deluged in drama. ( sometimes survival-threatening)
in other words, if don't know what you are doing, you can get hurt or killed.
Unlikely, but it can happen.

The "Kundalini' or' Kaula' is a force that can be found and activated within the heart or core of each chakra. It's purpose is rapid accelerated Transformation or if you prefer, 'Evolution' of the individual . Through the agency of the individual's life.

A QUICK GUIDE TO DABBLING WITH THE KUNDALINI POWER SAFELY, WITHOUT GETTIN' HURT.
[ For the idle ,the curious,the criminally reckless,the profane and the infidel. ] :

Right then; we did the 'scary warning' bit.
You and I know that some of you will not heed that warning.
Good. I never did.
This quick users manual is for you. So you don't get hurt, among other things

All chakras in practical terms correspond to and are holististically and holomically and holographically intergrated with each other.
To put it in another way;
For example.
Muladhara chakra has a Muladhara aspect and function and Svadisthana aspect and function and Manipura aspect and function and Anahata aspect and function and Visudda aspect and function and Ajna aspect and function and Sahasara aspect and function...all within the great chakra that is Muladhara.

Svadisthana chakra has a Muladhara aspect and function and a Svadisthana aspect and function and a Manipura aspect and function etc..
And so forth with all the other Chakras.

As I said before, the Kundalini power can be found and activated in the heart or core of all chakras.
If you want awaken the Kundalini, it's best to use a specific chakra. Muladhara chakra.
The Yogins knew this.
Where they and I disagree is in the area of all this being hard work.
I don't think that it should be hard work. I think that it should be enjoyable.

The reason for activating or awakening the Kundalini force first within Muladhara(Earth)chakra is simple.
If the Kundalini is activated within Muladhara(Earth) chakra, the rapidly evolving "Muladhara consciousness' will deal with the unfolding TRUE nature of the individual totally safely and securely.
Mine and orthodox Yogins methods differ.

Real adventure arises out of Total safety. All else is but a glimpse of adventure. Maybe some of you remember this from when you were a child.

SAFE AND FUN METHOD OF ACTIVATING THE KUNDALINI POWER :

WARNING : You won't find any of this in a Yoga text or manual. It's totally safe and it should work for 99.5% of the planets poulation. If you are one of the 0.05% for whom it doesn't work,nothing will happen. That's all.
Here we go, then.

There is a force. An unstoppable force of Transformation and Harmony. What I have said is not a definition but a description.
Some have called this primal force of Harmony and Transformation.... Love or Gratitude.Specifically, it is a person or an individuals Gratitude towards and for Themselves.
Love does not hurt. Love heals. Your Love was not meant to hurt. It was meant to heal you. And it will heal you if you want it to.
If it hurts, it isn't Love.
Gratitude-to-and-for-yourself is an aspect of Love. Therefore, GRATITUDE-TO-AND-FOR-YOURSELF heals.

An aspect of this GRATITUDE-TO-AND-FOR-YOURSELF (Love) force shows itself in the chakra's and some have called it Kundalini or Kaula or Kula power..
How faster and more powerfully do you think you would begin to run if you had Gratitude TO and FOR yourself regarding the speed and power of your running?
One thing's for certain.
You'd feel better about the whole buisness of your running.

The method is a simple visualisation technique. It can be done anywhere.
P.S: When we make-believe or daydream, we call it 'daydreaming'. When we deliberately daydream or make -believe in order to make something happen, we call it 'Creative visualisation'.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

1) Sit quetly,with your eyes closed.

2) Imagine that you can see your Muladhara chakra - a wheel or globe of Light- located at the
base of your spine. (Cocyx)
2b)You have just altered your consciousness suitably enough for your purposes.
You don't need a "deep" Trance-state. Don't make a big deal out of it. The Kundalini will do that later. (grin)

3) Now imagine that you can appear or materialise at the very heart and core and center of this chakra just because you want to and then do it.

4)You are now within the core of your Muladhara Chakra. Imagine that you can see a dormant spark of Light that is your GRATITUDE-TO-AND-FOR-YOURSELF. waiting to be activated...to be awakened.

5) You can awaken it simply by imagining that the dormant spark has become an all-consuming fire or flame.
An all-consuming fire that heals and does not burn. And constantly grows and becomes more powerful... Forever.

6) Watch the fire of your GRATITUDE-TO-AND-FOR- YOURSELF rapidly expand and "consume" all of Muladhara chakra. When it has "consumed" all of Muladhara Chakra, you should know that the Gratitude-fire will rise and expand and Consume/Evolve all other Chakras.
With harm to no one and with wrong to no none, including you.

If it harms no one and it wrongs no one,including you, then you have the right to be successful, don't you ?

6b) Remain in the Muladhara chakra, watching the Gratitude-Flame consume/evolve/transform Muladhara chakra for at least 1 minute.You can actually stay in your Muladhara chakra for as long as you want. No harm will come to you. Quite the contrary.
The longer you do your Flame of Gratitude visualisation the more amplified the effects will be.
You can do this visualisation more than once a day. The more you do it, the more amplified the effects will be. If it begins to become uncomfortable,stop.
Come back later. This is supposed to be an enjoyable endeavour.

7) Step out of the chakra and into your everyday consciousness.

8) Know that you have done all that you need to do.

Do this exercise for at least once a day. That'll do.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

If this visualisation works for you, you will find lots of resistances and reasons not to continue doing it everyday. I would suggest that you continue doing it.

I have no idea how rapidly this will work for you. It will work rapidly. I would say that it is likely that your life will have changed significantly, within a month. Maybe even spectacularly.
The Gratitude-Fire will burn through your blockages and your weaknesses and your limitations and what Yogi's call your " subconscious deposits" like a laser through butter. In ways that are safe and enjoyable for you.
Making the right decision or choice,regarding any situation or issue will become easier and easier and more enjoyable for you.
You will be successful in all areas of your life and you will deal with all issues in your life with greater and greater ease .
Some people define success as having lots of money. Some people define Success as making their personal relationships work. You will find yourself knowing what you want ...and then getting it,with less and less effort.
You will become a frighteningly and annoyingly confident and decisive person who does not hesitate, once you've made a decision.
Life will become a game which you know you're always going to win. Because you are you.
All this and other things will happen.
I would suggest that you keep on doing this visualisation every day until the secret of Sahasara and Muladhara Chakra is revealed. And when you have unlocked the secret of Muladhara and Sahasara Chakra, keep on doing the visualisation.

At some point Muladhara Chakra will have evolved to the extent that you will know and fully understand your Chakra System and what it is for.
In short you'll know what I've been hinting at.
And then you'll send me a Christmas card. (Smile)

Ciao for now.


mod edit to add link for the "chakra healing" thread


[edit on 12-3-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]




posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 02:38 AM
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long text, but you can some it up a lot easier.

If you try to delve into the Kundalini use the methods used in the East, can't get any safer then that. Do NOT use western interpetated practices under the same name. This is why many yoga, reiki, chakra, tantric, meditation techniques do not work properly. They are butchered by western society to make Eastern techniques work in the West. So anything you learn from western texts about these topics can be considered as a load of BS.

And I know for I have practiced both East and West and they differ more then people think they do. There is nothing unhealthy about trying to activate and learn to work with the Kundalini energy.

There is an extensive FAQ about Kundalini available at this website. Go to the section called Articles and you'll find "Kundalini FAQ" on the right side.

[edit on 4-3-2006 by Enyalius]



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 03:01 PM
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My dear Enyalius,
You missed the point Enyalius.
Why ?
Because you didn't bother to read my post,that's why !

You're not making the right noises that someone who has any practical or scholarly
knowledge or experience of any branch of Yoga - Western or Eastern - let alone
Kundalini Yoga, would make.
I am willing to take you at your word, regarding your yogic experience. For now.

Therefore I must assume that you speak from ignorance because you have'nt
read my .....er...article.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't mind if people say that I'm talking rubbish.
Just back it up with some proof, that's all.

Jeez, what did I say ? (Grin)



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 04:44 PM
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I just tried this, and first i had trouble keeping my eyes closed. Soon i felt a strange heat, that was almost felt like it was a sunburn, but it was a good feeling. It slowly spread up from the bottem of my spine, till it reached my elbows(it didnt go over my legs)Also, when i opened my eyes a little heat would go away.. Is this all of this a normal reaction? what other methods can i use to improve my skills? Can i do it more then one time a day? How many times would you recomend?


You said "
Before I say Anything ; Let's get the scary warning out of the way.
Best not to mess with the 'Kaula' or 'Kula' or " Kundalini" force unless you know what you are doing.
If you are not successful in activating the Kundalini, nothing will happen.
If you are successful in activitating the Kundalini and you don't know what you are doing, prepare to be deluged in drama. ( sometimes survival-threatening)
in other words, if don't know what you are doing, you can get hurt or killed.
Unlikely, but it can happen."

Where how do i know if i "know what im doing" Is there a threat i may know what im doing and just dont know i know what im doing?



Also, i was just looking here

heartseva.com... and it kinda creeped me out. WHat else can i do to prevent this? Why doesnt the method u described have these effects.

Thanks
--Enigma--

[edit on 4-3-2006 by Enigma12321]

[edit on 4-3-2006 by Enigma12321]



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 08:53 PM
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Howdy Enigma12321
If you used the ' Flame of Gratitude " visualisation as written above, you have nothing to worry about. Relax. Enjoy the show .

YOU SAID:

" just tried this, and first i had trouble keeping my eyes closed. Soon i felt a strange heat, that was almost felt like it was a sunburn, but it was a good feeling. It slowly spread up from the bottem of my spine, till it reached my elbows(it didnt go over my legs)Also, when i opened my eyes a little heat would go away.. Is this all of this a normal reaction? what other methods can i use to improve my skills? Can i do it more then one time a day? How many times would you recomend? "

MY REPLY :

If you used the flame of gratitude technique then yes, it's a nice result. No worries.How did you feel with the warmth emotionally ? How do you feel now ? The technique should always be accompanied by a feeling of wellbeing - sometimes subtle ,sometimes "loud " - sooner or later.
I reckon you should re-read my thread starter. It answers the rest of your questions.

YOU SAID :

"Where how do i know if i "know what im doing" Is there a threat i may know what im doing and just dont know i know what im doing? "

MY REPLY :

There is no threat. You don't have to know everything. The flame of Gratitude technique will take care of the details for you. That's what it's for.

YOU SAID :

"Also, i was just looking here
*heartseva.com... and it kinda creeped me out. WHat else can i do to prevent this? Why doesnt the method u described have these effects. "

MY REPLY :
IF you did the "Flame of Gratitude' visualisation according to the instructions, you have already done all that you needed to ,in order to prevent any negative or harmful effects.
I'm not sure what you mean by ' why doesn't the method u described have these effects". What effects ? Negative or Positive ?
As far as the heartseva article is concerned, I liked the scare stories. Very detailed and specific.

It's interesting to note that such a 'helpful' person doesn't give you which specific technique
that caused all the trouble in the first place and which school or teacher he studied with, either.
There are many schools of Kundalini Yoga.
The author also doesn't tell you which unsuccessful methods he/she used in the attempt
to solve his/her so-called 'Kundalini" problem.
The author was not very specific about what constitutes an " Ideal Kundalini Awakening"
Deliberately vague,in my opinion.
When it came to backing it up with any facts the author wasn't specific about anything.
Except the nifty scare stories.
Why ?
The whole article doesn't stand much scrutiny does it ?

I personally always consider WHY somebody is saying something, before I consider taking
WHAT they are saying seriously.
I reckon you should apply that rule to everyone,including me, Enigma. It won't hurt.
(Grin)

Hmnn....." Ideal Kundalini Awakening "

Sounds like some Guru's $ale$pitch, to me .



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 09:04 PM
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When I was 18 I traded my chakras for a six pack of beer and a Duncan yo-yo. (how the hell was I suppose to know i'd need them later?)

I guess I should appoligize now. I'm sorry. I don't mean to make light of something that many find fascinating. I just don't understand why spirituality has to be so complicated.

For me the spiritual is there every day and I know this because I actually feel it flowing thru me. I don't have to awake anything or meditate into my 3rd eye. There is an old sikh saying, "If you can't see god in everything then you can't see god in anything."

I can relate to that saying much more then I can relate to my chakras.

I hope you will forgive my intrusion into your conversation.

Love and light,

Wupy



posted on Mar, 5 2006 @ 09:22 AM
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thanks! you answered all my questions, and in responce to your question
How did you feel with the warmth emotionally ? I felt ok, but it seemed more physical. I accually asked a friend if my back was sunburned, because it felt as though it was (but it was a good feeling) Im going to contiune doing this, and hope for the best!

---Enigma---



posted on Mar, 5 2006 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by DrakeDouay

My dear Enyalius,
You missed the point Enyalius.
Why ?
Because you didn't bother to read my post,that's why !

You're not making the right noises that someone who has any practical or scholarly
knowledge or experience of any branch of Yoga - Western or Eastern - let alone
Kundalini Yoga, would make.
I am willing to take you at your word, regarding your yogic experience. For now.

Therefore I must assume that you speak from ignorance because you have'nt
read my .....er...article.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't mind if people say that I'm talking rubbish.
Just back it up with some proof, that's all.

Jeez, what did I say ? (Grin)


I don't mind reading long posts, but this was too much even for my standard. I just gave my point of view concerning Kundalini, nothing ignorant about it. If it was mention in our post so be it, if it wasn't same. Not attacking you or taking down your views, just stating something which just is. What people do with the information is upto them.

as for my knowledge en experiences go i leave them in the middle. not going to back my statements up. I've stopped doing that a long time ago on these boards. Let people figure it out themselves and they'll come to the same conclusions I have...in due time.



posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by DrakeDouay

It's interesting to note that such a 'helpful' person doesn't give you which specific technique
that caused all the trouble in the first place and which school or teacher he studied with, either.



Hello DrakeDouay:

I've enjoyed reading this thread thus far. Very interesting and technique you describe. I must ask the obvious question, of course: What school or system did You study with to learn the Flame of Gratitude visualization? It makes such sense and I really, really like the simplicity of it..
-Its all about the Love! lol


MMMarie



posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 03:43 AM
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I took the time to read this time, bored at work so time enough hehe. There is nothing new or evolutionary in what you present. It is the same thing many other new-age groups talk about.

You say that there are 7 chakra's. Fine, but it is only so in the system that YOU work with. There are several different belief systems concerning chakra's. Instead of looking at "what may be the one true system" I suggest you look at each system and find the similarities to get a better understanding of it all. I've learned there are no chakra's to begin with. They are just aiding tools people can refer to in order to help themselves. People are energetic beings and can utilize all whether they use chakra's or not.

In every system the similarities are that each chakra symbolizes certain aspects of the individual and it's relation to emotions or evolutionary change from within. All talk about psychological change in a controlled and concious way. You can visualize the heart chakra in your pinky toe if you want, as long as it holds the same visualization and symbolism to you then it'll achieve what you want.'

The life threatening isn't odd. This is so since the beginning of time when the first people, called shamans, working with energie and spiritual development. They too underwent hardships which often lead to (near)death sitautions. This stands for being reborn as a new being. You will see things in a new daylight since you've grown in awareness and let go of old issues. This is something I underwent as well, I literally was dead for a few minutes.

People talk about the kundalini as the Fire Serpent resting at the base of your spine. When you found balance in your life, between the male and female aspects and more...then the Serpent will awaken and crawl up your spine burning open all your chakra's untill it reaches your mind. Making you open to universal conciousness...which people refer to as enlightentment.

People like to spice things up and make it more special with fireworks while in fact it isn't like that all. You will feel warm inside and free in the sense of being in balance with everything and not feeling drawn to the extremes of dualities. The same how the two pillars in the mystical kaballah are presented. The two pillars show every duality in life we have, but the middle tree is that of balance and balance is what we seek. This feeling is quite addictive so be carefull in this regard.

As for the methods you use. Well if it works for you then use it. However there are more then one ways to do things. Best is to try em out with someone. And always look further then just the excercises and knowledge presented. There are always more meanings hiding behind what you're shown.

You say that the Tantric Chakra system and the Mystical Kaballa Chakra system are different, but they are not(except in use of Terminology and application). The only difference is that the Tantric system uses 7 instead of 10 chakra's. They both define each chakra on 4 levels meaning the psychological, emotional, elemental and the universal/astral realm. Only difference is that I prefer the kabbalah method because it is more organised and lets me focus on one aspect on 1 layer at a time so that I can get the fullest experience and awareness/growth. And next to these 2 systems there are even more such as the New-Age chakra system in which 13 (not the 7 chakra system they stole from Tantrism, but the system they claim to be in use since the Aquarius age arrived) are used. What about Free Masonry System with about 33?

[edit on 6-3-2006 by Enyalius]



posted on Mar, 12 2006 @ 06:21 PM
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Howdy Enigma 12321
You say that the sunburnt feeling is a "good" feeling. If you say that the sunburnt feeling is at least 80% pleasurable, then I'm happy. Prolonged discomfort or struggle of any kind is not a sign of your progress with this particular method.

Either way, if you have been using the " flame of gratitude" visualisation daily,
the "sunburn" effect should have disappeared by now.

TO MRWUPY ;
You've missed the point, mrwupy. And you obviously didn't bother reading the thread-starter.
Who said anything about " Spirituality " ?
I didn't.
The 'Flame of Gratitude' visualisation is a magical technique for the purpose of making an
individual " powerful ". Spiritually is always implicit in anything to do with the chakras
and Kundalini but it wasn't the .line on this occasion.

Hmmnn... You are willing to take the time to write a couple of paragraphs
in ' reply " to my post but you are not willing to read the post that you are replying to.
What's all that about, then ?

Since the subject's come up, by my definition of spirituality, one cannot crack open a can
of beer or watch a Marilyn Monroe movie or watch a boxing match without " spirituality "
being implicitly or explicitly involved.

YOU SAID;
"If you can't see god in everything then you can't see god in anything."

MY REPLY;
Nice Sikh platitude. If you don't make it work in the "real world ", it remains
merely a platitude. Some Sikh or Sufi fella said that, so you would ask questions.
And then ask some more questions. Not just say it and then congratulate
yourself for saying it .

I have an obvious question: Where do you see god in the perfect left hook that
Joe Frazier delivered unto Joe Bugner, thus rendering him unconscious for a
few minutes ?

Watch it. That's a trick question. ( Grin )


TO ENYALIUS ;

My dear Enyalius.
You've missed the point , Enyalius.

I gave you an " out ". You weren't interested.
So I gave you another " out ". You again simply refused to quit while you were a..
Some of your errors look like they are on the verge of becoming dangerous and incorrect
information for the ' public '.
Very well....

YOU SAID ; " I don't mind reading long posts, but this was too much
even for my standard."
MY REPLY ;
What ? Even by the ' standards ' of your 12 to 14 page loooooo-oooong epic post, entitled
" What is a Magus" ?
YOU SAID:
"You say that there are 7 chakra's. Fine, but it is only so in the system that YOU work with."
MY REPLY ;
Obvious. I was interested in the 7 chakra system for certain reasons.
YOU SAID :
"Instead of looking at "what may be the one true system" I suggest you look at each system and find the similarities to get a better understanding of it all."
MY REPLY ;
Who said anything about " One true system ' ? Either a technique or a paradigm works or it doesn't. A person can always use the flame of gratitude visualisation to find out what the other chakras are for if they want.
YOU SAID ;
" The life threatening isn't odd. This is so since the beginning of time when the first people, called shamans, working with energie and spiritual development. They too underwent hardships which
often lead to (near)death sitautions. This stands for being reborn as a new being. You will see
things in a new daylight since you've grown in awareness and let go of old issues. "
MY REPLY :
Peculiar logic. Just because a bunch of lemmings jumped off a cliff, does that mean that we all
have to do this ? There was a time when getting across the Atlantic Ocean was a life-threatening
experience , involving a lot of suffering and struggle. (yawn)
YOU SAID ;
"I took the time to read this time, bored at work so time enough hehe. There is nothing new or evolutionary in what you present. It is the same thing many other new-age groups talk about. "
MY REPLY ;
From another persons point of view, it remains to be seen whether what I say is evolutionary or not.This is done simply by testing the " Flame of gratitude" technique, for themselves.
However, what I'm saying is without doubt, " New ".
You should know that. If your yogic credentials are to be taken seriously.

'Gratitude TO or FOR yourself " as " Kundalini ' ?
You've never heard that ANYWHERE. If you have, prove it. Let's have
the documentation and the hot-links that you are usually so eager to provide, please.
If you CAN prove it, this is very good news.

As I said, you were not making the correct eastern or western yogic noises.
Yoga is for the purpose of " Union with God/Source etc"
One of yogas main purposes is to obliterate the Ego in order to get this union with" god."
Most yogic schools consider the ego to be either the personality of an individual or 90% of the personality of an individual. One of yogas main purposes is to obliterate 90% of all desire.
Any more and that's Buddhism.
"Ascetic" is another way of saying that you shouldn't have any fun being a man or a woman.
Yoga is not about acquiring power for any other purpose except union with "god".
That is one of the first lessons of Yoga. Most certainly practical Yoga.
You should know this.

The flame of Gratitude visualisation is about acquiring power and getting what you want. With harm to none and with wrong to none, including YOU. Because you want it. It is about a person consciously creating their reality and themself. It is about eventually Transforming a man or a woman into a God or a Goddess.
If you want it, union with "god" or "God/Goddess/All That Is etc " would become an available
practical choice.

I do not agree that the Ego is either the personality of the individual or even part of the personality of the individual. It just looks like it. It just resembles the personality.

The Ego is incapable of Gratitude TO or FOR oneself.. Geddit ?

I do not agree that the personality or desires of the individual must be eliminated or obliterated in order to have " union with God " .
I don't agree with most things that yogins say.
I said, basically, within the first couple of paragraphs, that the purpose of the chakra system was to evolve or change a person into a "god" or a "goddess."
'Change a person into an individualized 'god or Goddess? " Without obliterating the personality ? That's yogic blasphemy. On both counts.
You should have noticed that. Anybody with one hour of practical
yogic experience would have noticed that.

The terms " God " and " Goddess" among other things describe an Archetypical or Ultimate
Magician. There can be more than one.

Chakras+Kundalini= Magician ? That's yogic blasphemy. You should have noticed that.
That's yogic bla...oh I said that, didn't I?

I ALSO SAID;
" 1) Muladhara Chakra.
Most people agree that it is located at the base of the spine.
It deals with many matters.
We'll just call it Safety and Security.Centeredness.Integration.Synergy. Discernment and Discrimination. Dignity and Freedom.
And Fun. "

Muladhara chakra associated with " Synergy,Dignity and Freedom and Fun" ? You've never heard that ANYWHERE. You never heard this in NEW AGE YOGA either. If you have, prove it.
It also implies that the personality and having fun as a man or a woman matters most of all. That's yogic blasphemy, on both counts.
You should have noticed that, Enyalius.

ANYBODY who has had even 1 hour of practical experience with Yoga would have started to notice that and all the other " blasphemies" that I've pointed out..not to mention a few that I haven't pointed out...
within the first few paragraphs.
And they would have said so, too.

YOU SAID :
" You say that the Tantric Chakra system and the Mystical Kaballa Chakra system are different, but they are not(except in use of Terminology and application)."
MY REPLY ;
No I didn't. I said the the Chakra system and the Qabala system had close correspondences, but that they were not the same thing. Not the exact same system.
I know absolutely nothing about the Mystical Qabala chakra or Tantric chakra systems.
Tantra is a very,very big word. Tantra and Qabala are not the same thing.
One may incorporate Qabala into Tantra method. That's why it's Tantra.
(Grin)
Yogins don't like Tantra. 70% percent of eastern Yogins used to think that
Hatha Yoga was Tantra or had too many Tantric leanings. Maybe they still do.
Little bit of gossip, there.
' Mystical Qabala? " What about the "Magical Qabala ' ? Nobody ever seems to mention that .

Howdy MerryMistressMarie:
Nice to meet you (Grin)

I reckon I've already answered your question. OK, maybe not.
I don't think much of Yogins.They are not as effective as they could be.
I don't think much of Yoga.
It's not as effective as it could be,,,,,with a slight change of paradigm.
I don't think much of Gurus. I reckon you might have gathered that already.

I have never studied with any Guru and have only used Yoga and some of its techniques in order to
get to the essense of it and find out how it works. And more importantly, how it would best suit my purposes.

I invented the Flame of Gratitude technique, myself .
(Smile)

Ciao for now



posted on Mar, 12 2006 @ 06:33 PM
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Whoops !.... Hit the post button instead of the preview button.

Actually I've got a great deal of respect for Yogins.
I don't agree much of most of what they say, is all.



posted on Mar, 12 2006 @ 07:03 PM
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Soft Frozen Yogin


Originally posted by DrakeDouay
Actually I've got a great deal of respect for Yogins.
I don't agree much of most of what they say, is all.

Do you think it is possible for you to disagree with someone who could nonetheless be right?



posted on Mar, 12 2006 @ 07:20 PM
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Howdy Majic,
I'll let you answer that..Do YOU think it is possible for you to disagree with someone who could nonetheless be right?
Hawhaw



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 01:19 AM
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Turnabout


Originally posted by DrakeDouay
I'll let you answer that..Do YOU think it is possible for you to disagree with someone who could nonetheless be right?

Absolutely. I do it all the time.

But I asked you the question because I want to know what you think.

Do you think it is possible for you to disagree with someone who could nonetheless be right?



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 01:28 AM
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Stunning thread. Great Literature. keep up the good work DrakeDouay...



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 01:38 AM
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Forgot to ask the question.

DrakeDuaoy,"What if you cant see the Chakra or you cant image the spine?" I know this sounds absurd, but is there a technique?



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 06:40 AM
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Majic,

IMO this is not about who is right or not.. It's about what works. Practical excersizes that work or don't work. Very simple. No Dogma involved in that.



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 09:26 AM
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Indeed Bandit.

I keep getting called "ignorant" and that I misunderstand what is being said. How ironically, because Drake does the same what I write. Why should I "quite when being ."? Are we playing some game I'm unaware of? And what makes yoy think that you know more/have more experience then I do?

At first I didn't want to read your post fully, because when I skimmed it through there was nothing NEW mentioned. It was nothing but a summary/copy paste action of which is shown on many websites and books. That made the text feel as if it was longer then it actually was...a bore to read. What you say isn't new because similar techniques cause the same events to occur.

You claimed at first that there were only 7 chakra's and that another system was "wrong" and didn't work. By doing so you implied that there is only 1 system that works. So I kept showing you that there are multiple systems which can be used. Giving more directions and options for other people to consider.

Lemmings jumping of a cliff is a poor analogy. It is a natural course of evolution that people experience similar events once they reached a certain stage of development. This shows to me that you have only delved in the Yogic systems while there is a lot more paths to walk on which you haven't explored yet. The time of rebirth is something we all experience, some more drastic then others. Some have a natural near-death experience, others inflict self damage to get in a trance due to the pain and there are other ways and experiences which have the very same effect of being reborn and looking at the world differently.

Gratitude for yourself/kundalini is what almost EVERY new-age believer shouts out. This includes showing self love, self respect and more. It's all about embracing yourself in a positive mindset instead of discouraging/disrespecting oneself and their suroundings. Just because you choose different wordings/terminology doesn't change the underlying message that you think is NEW.

And what documentation/hot links am I eager to share? I rarely do such things nor have I claimed in this thread I wish to do só. Are you trying to place words in my mouth once again?

Also where did I claim or spoke of the purpose of Yoga as a whole? I don't remember stating that it is used for personal power and egotistical gains? Have I? So how can you claim that I did or did not posess the knowledge of what Yoga truly is meant for when I never gave an indication of how I looked at it except from the psychological effects that chakra's have.

I suggest you use your own advice as in "I don't think you understand what I'm saying". Also try to stop placing words in other peoples mouths. Combine that with the many asumptions you make and it is near impossible for me to find something fundamental to reply to



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 02:18 PM
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Right Versus Right


Originally posted by TheBandit795
IMO this is not about who is right or not.. It's about what works. Practical excersizes that work or don't work. Very simple. No Dogma involved in that.

I know.

I'm asking the question because there seems to be a difference of opinion on this point.




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