It's good! It's good! It's good...to be good

Originally posted by point
In my opinion,
The popular propaganda that there is no good or evil only serves those who gravitate toward evil and it only disadvantages those that aspire toward good.

If a thief can convince you that there is no such thing as theft then in your mind he is not a thief. He can now go right ahead and rob your house in front of you. I bet he's under no illusions about what he is.
You may even want to give him a wave (while sporting an idiotic smile on your face) as he casually leaves your house with your belongings.
Wake up and smell the B.S.

Yes, I'm really an evil guy out to get you all.

While there always will be people, as I already said, who have mental, psychological problem's in the brain, people wired to do literal harm against another person without much forethought put behind their actions ... what of a case of theivery that involves a starving homeless man stealing food so he can survive? No one's saying a thief who steal's your brand new big screen tv isn't doing something wrong. Obviously he's just being a greedy bastard.

Originally posted by Produkt
saint,

would you say I'm a bad person? Immoral? Evil?

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

Originally posted by Produkt
I don't believe in god, but I've lead a decent moral life imo. Does not believing in a god make me a bad person despite leading a devent moral life?

If I owned a water bottling company and handed you a bottle of water from my factory, then said, "Oh by the way, there was a sewer break yesterday and about 5% of that is sewage. Sorry about that, but 95% of it is still good". Would you still want to drink it?

Originally posted by IAF101
ONE FACT :

There is NO Good and NO Evil.
Good and Evil are archaic concepts in this world. What is there however is right and wrong, that are completely different from Good and Evil .

It is important not to confuse what is right to what is Good and vice versa.

Check you're "facts" friend, they're wrong.

Originally posted by saint4God
If I owned a water bottling company and handed you a bottle of water from my factory, then said, "Oh by the way, there was a sewer break yesterday and about 5% of that is sewage. Sorry about that, but 95% of it is still good". Would you still want to drink it?

No, of course not. That's just nasty. Now if you hadn't told me, you'd be nothing more then dishonest. I don't see how that pertain's to the topic of discussion on the perception of what's good and what's evil.

Originally posted by point
If a thief can convince you that there is no such thing as theft then in your mind he is not a thief. He can now go right ahead and rob your house in front of you. I bet he's under no illusions about what he is.
You may even want to give him a wave (while sporting an idiotic smile on your face) as he casually leaves your house with your belongings.
Wake up and smell the B.S.

I wouldn't smile as he left the house I would be casually convincing him with my fists/feet/heavy object/gun/knife etc to leave MY stuff where he found it and not to be a silly fecker. After all if theft is ok then what about GBH or murder?


G

Originally posted by Produkt
No, of course not. That's just nasty.

Exactly!

Originally posted by Produkt
Now if you hadn't told me, you'd be nothing more then dishonest.

Right and wouldn't do that because you'd discover it for yourself if you'd actually had a drink of it.

Originally posted by Produkt
I don't see how that pertain's to the topic of discussion on the perception of what's good and what's evil.

Ourselves are those bottles of water. We tend to think "Well, my good outweighs my bad", however as demonstrated by the bottled water example, even a 5% taint makes us impure. Given that Heaven is perfect happiness, with no pain, no sorrow, and no sin, how could even 5% of that be allowed in? The only way a person can earn or deserve heaven is this: "Be perfect, as your Father in Heaven is perfect". That leaves me out. Does that leave you out too?

No one's perfect, but does that make one evil as how it's viewed? No.

You can show me how your dishonest, greedy, immoral etc. But can you show me your 'evil'?

Can you show me how someone killing out of self defense is 'evil'?
Can you show me how the homeless guy stealing bread to feed his kids is 'evil'?

If you'd like I can think up more example's of how 'evil' is an entirely subjective view.

Like I said, no one is perfect. Then again, no one is 'evil' either.

Originally posted by Produkt
No one's perfect, but does that make one evil as how it's viewed? No.

It's a generalization to say people are good or people are evil. There is no-one in this world who is good. Nor do I think a person is capable of being absolute evil. What you get is the in-between mix. You, me, everybody is in the same boat. Neither you nor I are superior to anyone else.

Originally posted by Produkt
You can show me how your dishonest, greedy, immoral etc. But can you show me your 'evil'?

Ya, but I doubt you'd care to see it. That and dishonesty, greed, and immorality are the result of evil intentions.

Originally posted by Produkt
Can you show me how someone killing out of self defense is 'evil'?

If I could show you my heart, I would. In there lies the answer. All we can see is the final result, not the seeds or development thereof. Seeds and development can be evil even if the act of evil is never carried out.

Originally posted by Produkt
Can you show me how the homeless guy stealing bread to feed his kids is 'evil'?

I cannot show you what's inside another person...just as you cannot show me what's inside of you.

Originally posted by Produkt
If you'd like I can think up more example's of how 'evil' is an entirely subjective view.

It isn't subjective. Sorry. Word of the day to look-up: Relativism. It's after the word Reality which has an opposite meanings.

Originally posted by Produkt
Like I said, no one is perfect. Then again, no one is 'evil' either.

Evil resides within all of us. We're capable of producing it in our minds, hearts and even actions. All three places it exists.

[edit on 7-3-2006 by saint4God]

[edit on 7-3-2006 by saint4God]

All you've managed to show was your opinionated view's. Not actual evidence for evil and good being a reality.

relativism.

the view that truth is relative and not absolute. It varies from people to people, time to time.

Interesting. Isn't this pretty much what a few of us on here have been saying?

Originally posted by Produkt
All you've managed to show was your opinionated view's.

It's not MY opinion, check the Book. If I'm not in line, be a friend and let me know.

Originally posted by Produkt
Not actual evidence for evil and good being a reality.

It is not my job to provide evidence for good and evil.

Originally posted by Produkt
relativism.

the view that truth is relative and not absolute. It varies from people to people, time to time.

Interesting. Isn't this pretty much what a few of us on here have been saying?

Yes, but saying it doesn't make it correct.

[edit on 7-3-2006 by saint4God]

It's not MY opinion, check the Book. If I'm not in line, be a friend and let me know.

My bad, sorry for assuming you had a mind of your own.

It is not my job to provide evidence for good and evil.

You claim it, you prove it. Especially if you want other's to believe such a concept.

Yes, but saying it doesn't make it correct.

Uhh...

It isn't subjective. Sorry. Word of the day to look-up: Relativism. It's after the word Reality which has an opposite meanings.

Subjective, in this case... influenced by personal opinion. It is subjective. As we've even established through the definition of relativism as well. Perhaps these words are too big?

Originally posted by Produkt
My bad, sorry for assuming you had a mind of your own.

I certainly do. Would you like to hear MY opinion instead? Doubt it would help though.

You claim it, you prove it. Especially if you want other's to believe such a concept.

I cannot prove the earth is round by showing you. All my pictures are taken by someone else or can be "faked". Nor can you prove to me anything. Hopefully you're getting the picture. What I can do is help someone obtain their proof. It's up to them to accept or reject it.

Subjective, in this case... influenced by personal opinion. It is subjective. As we've even established through the definition of relativism as well. Perhaps these words are too big?

There's nothing above an 8th grade vocabulary here so nothing has been said "over my head". Linguistical paradoxes due to word-play aren't fun for me, sorry.

There is 'being good' and then there is 'doing good.'

The religious idea of 'good' is based primarily upon identity rather than the nature that motivates one's actions. What I mean is: it is said that only by being 'christian' can one access the power to do good for others in the name of Christ. Yet that is totally against what I know of God's priorities: God is no respecter of persons. Who you are is of absolutely no importance in the Higher Mind. Identity probably doesn't even have a slot for registration. You could call yourself anything and it wouldn't matter a bit. A name is not an enduring method in representation.

An action, however, is something that cannot be erased nor reversed. Once done, a deed is permanently part of the ethereal fabric of our shared human identity. Positive actions create beautiful weaves and patterns, that will not fall prey to moths and time. Negative actions have an effect similar to applying some sort of strong acid to cloth. Holes immediately appear, which continue to grow and devour the surrounding fabric.

The 'void' is 'evil.' The intact cloth is 'good.' People are not these things--these things are only one facet of the underlying duality upon which our world's fabric is built upon. The warp and the weave. Without one or the other, all you've got is yarn.

To 'do good' is to love others. Love is an action, not a feeling. Anyone can love, anyone can do for others--for the simple sake of another's need or desire. Calling oneself out of the common existence due to alliances or beliefs is not conducive to sharing positive energy--separatism is not a part of generosity.

To do good because it gives one a feeling of satisfaction is not actually 'giving.' It is 'taking.' To do something for another because of how it makes one feel is ultimately selfish in motivation and will not be counted as 'good' on the roster. It is cleverly disguised egoism and greed.

But to seek to do or acquire for someone else that, which they cannot achieve or accomplish on their own, with only the motive of filling holes where there shouldn't be holes, in the name of God's love (rather than in the name of one's own virtue and benevolence due to their so-called 'goodness')--that is a true 'good deed.'

Morality has nothing to do with virtue--morality is something we create in answer to the reflections we see in other people in response to our actions and behaviors. It is an instrument of social acceptance and government, and also has no significance in the Eyes that look upon us all.

If you think that the feeling inside just you thinking that "god has blessed you because you were nice"? i think that most people think they are having a good feeling because thats what the pastor told them was the right thing to feel...
just a question of theology, if God doesn't exist, then, why do so many people belive in him...
the answer: people are presuded in thier ingnorent young years to follow something with out any onher ideas being acknowlegded

--YOURS TRULY--

cooldude76

Originally posted by IAF101
ONE FACT :

There is NO Good and NO Evil.
Good and Evil are archaic concepts in this world. What is there however is right and wrong, that are completely different from Good and Evil .

It is important not to confuse what is right to what is Good and vice versa.

I agree, but right and wrong from whose perspective? An absolute right/wrong is just as illusionary as an absolute good/evil.

Though religion does have specific moral rules, it does much to promote the general health of a society. Its a fact; I believe, that most moral rules within society in human history come from religion. On the other hand while you don't have to be religious to do good if you will, non-religous societies have in general struggled with various social problems that have arisen in the anti-religious era. The psychologists are making a killing nowadays, with many people being depressed alone.

Originally posted by NeoQuest
Though religion does have specific moral rules, it does much to promote the general health of a society.

I think having purpose and 'things to do', so to speak, is far more healthy to a society's members. Too much thinking and not enough working with one's hands (figure of speech) is bad for the mental state.

On the other hand while you don't have to be religious to do good if you will, non-religous societies have in general struggled with various social problems that have arisen in the anti-religious era.

What exactly do you mean by non-religious societies? As in time periods? Or locations?

On the other hand while you don't have to be religious to do good if you will, non-religous societies have in general struggled with various social problems that have arisen in the anti-religious era.

Wha? Where is there a non-religous society? I'd sure as hell like to move there!

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by NeoQuest
Though religion does have specific moral rules, it does much to promote the general health of a society.

I think having purpose and 'things to do', so to speak, is far more healthy to a society's members. Too much thinking and not enough working with one's hands (figure of speech) is bad for the mental state.

On the other hand while you don't have to be religious to do good if you will, non-religous societies have in general struggled with various social problems that have arisen in the anti-religious era.

What exactly do you mean by non-religious societies? As in time periods? Or locations?

It's more than just having something to do. It's about having a discipline code with which to follow in life. Discipline societies are always stronger internally.

Originally posted by NeoQuest
It's more than just having something to do. It's about having a discipline code with which to follow in life. Discipline societies are always stronger internally.

Think about it:

'Having something to do,' and doing it--that's called responsibility.

Carrying responsibilities willingly builds self-discipline.

A society cannot actually be 'disciplined' except by government and that is not 'self-discipline.'

If all members of a society were self-disciplined to the point of self-government; resulting in an peaceful and productive community--well, that would be the first truly disciplined society.

Hasn't happened yet.