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Students walk out in protest of teacher suspension

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posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by YIAWETA
Folks , this is all inflated blather that the Neocon's want you affixed to.


Don't worry, I'm on it.
I just love to debate and this subject turned out to be quite an enjoyable debate for me. I'm not affixed to it or taking it too seriously. It's the LEAST of what's going on in the nation and the world today.

Jake, your last comments made me realize that there really are (at least) 3 issues here.

1. We have the question of whether what Bennish did is right or wrong from a moral perspective. (I think "right")

2. We have whether or not Bennish broke the rules of the school. (In my opinion, that is yet to be determined.)

3. We have the issue of inequality of subject matter allowed in classroom forum by law.

The law allows teachers to discuss politics, but not religion, on a personal level. Should we allow ALL subjects to be discussed in the classroom? Sex? Prostitution? Abortion? Should a gay teacher be allowed to 'preach' about his views on homosexuality?




posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
TOBACCO:



Bennish Transcript
What part of our country grows all our tobacco? Anyone know what states in particular? Mostly what's called North Carolina.



North Carolina
The Tarheel state continues to rank number one in the production of tobacco






There were two parts to the question. The first question he asked was "who is the worlds largest producer of cigarettes and Tobacco"? his answer was the US and that is wrong China is the largest producer of Cigarettes and Tobacco.



[edit on 3/9/2006 by shots]



posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 01:24 PM
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BH, do you have children?

Please, tell me, honestly, what would you do if your child came home and was upset with something that their teacher had told them? Would you take the side of the teacher, especially if you had similar views? What if your views were different.

I am not bieng judge and jury, I am stating facts and trying to get some answers to some simple questions that you seem to ignore.



posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by shots
Russia is the largest producer of Cigarettes and Tobacco.


Russia is not even MENTIONED in your source. :shk:



Your source
"While China, which is both the largest grower and the biggest consumer of tobacco in the world...


I'm sorry, but you lost all credibility with me several pages ago.

The United States is the second largest, after China. Russia is not mentioned in any of the sources I read.



The World Tobacco Industry

Tobacco is grown in more than 100 countries. China is the world’s leading producer. Other principal suppliers are the United States,
...
China accounts for 30 per cent of world production and consumption of cigarettes by volume. At 12 per cent of the total, the United States is the world’s second largest producer.


Bennish perhaps made a mistake. Off by one. You feel he should be fired for it. Fine.



posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71
BH, do you have children?


No.



Please, tell me, honestly, what would you do if your child came home and was upset with something that their teacher had told them?


If my 16-year-old came home, upset with something his teacher had told him, I would remind him that he doesn't have to believe everything someone tells him. I would remind him that all people have a unique perspective and that many times, two people believe different things and neither one has to be considered wrong. I would tell him that the teacher is entitled to have and voice his opinion, just as my son is.

I would ask him if he and his classmates had a chance to voice their opinions. I would question him to help him realize what his own opinions are and encourage him to question and evaluate his ideas and not worry so much about what the teacher's opinions are. I would do my best to answer any questions he might have.

I am not into controlling other people. It's a frustrating and useless endeavor. And I don't think it's right. I am into dealing with "what is" instead of trying to make my world conform to what I think it should be. And I would do my best to explain this concept to my son.

Of course, if he was being physically hurt, or not allowed to express his opinions, if there was something I felt was unjust going on, I would first approach the teacher.



I am not bieng judge and jury, I am stating facts and trying to get some answers to some simple questions that you seem to ignore.


What questions am I ignoring?



posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 03:00 PM
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You summed it up by stating that you do not have children. Your life and views change the minute you have a child. The first day you send them to school, and you realize how much of their little psyche is impressed with the person that they are entrusted to listen to, the teacher.

If my child came home and told me he had a teacher that was spewing right or left wing comments in class that had nothing to do with the class, I would be concerned and may inquire with the teacher. If it was a AP(honors) class, and it was topical to the course, I would talk to my child about it a little more and show him both sides, something the teacher did not due.

Where it goes wrong, is the kid who does not have a parent or someone else to go home too, and his only view is the one role model figure he has. So he beleives and know only what this teacher says, does no alternatve reasearch, and winds up with blinders on.

It is not a teachers job tp preach, but to teach.



posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 03:01 PM
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Why cannot we go back to how schools were like decades ago when it was a more academic program and teachers actually taught students. Now we have liberalism and unions controlling the schools in order to spread their political views for their own self-serving benefit eg. higher pay and less work in every contract while students obtain weaker and weaker educations.

Student testing in recent years proves that students are not learning what they need to survive and thrive in the future nor are teachers doing a good job but yet they have time to spread liberalism in the classroom at every opportunity.



posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by SportyMB
These are high school students. They have NO RIGHT to leave school in protest.


You have no right to tell other human beings what their rights are. Neither does your federal government.

The guy wasn't preaching his personal beliefs anyway, let alone was he stating them as fact as the punk with the recorded alleges. His own freaking tape refutes that. How many of you have listened to the actual tape? He stated very clearly that he was not saying Bush was Hitler, but comparing certain policies, and they are very valid comparisons. And this was only a segment of the whole class anyway.

[edit on 9-3-2006 by bsbray11]



posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71
You summed it up by stating that you do not have children. Your life and views change the minute you have a child. The first day you send them to school, and you realize how much of their little psyche is impressed with the person that they are entrusted to listen to, the teacher.


While I obviously don’t know everything there is to know about raising children (who does?), I’m not sure I agree that not having a child invalidates my opinion on this matter. After all, I once was one.

And keep in mind, we're talking about a 16-year-old here, not a kindergardener. I would hope most foundations would be established by then. And I doubt I'd be as protective a parent as you seem to be. You can speak to how you changed having kids, but you cannot accurately speak to how I would respond.

If my child came home and told me that a teacher was spending significant amounts of time discussing subjects that were not relevant to the class, I would have a problem with that, without regard to what those subjects were.


Originally posted by esdad71
Where it goes wrong, is the kid who does not have a parent or someone else to go home too, and his only view is the one role model figure he has.


There’s no reason that my child should be denied a good, interactive education because some other child doesn’t have a good parent or a parent at all. I wouldn’t want a teacher to censor himself or herself because some other kid doesn’t have an active roll model.

What you're advocating is teaching to the lowest common denominator and I happen to think that's a lot of what's wrong in the public education system today. If more kids had stimulating, passionate discussions in their classrooms, they'd be learning to think for themselves.

And while obviously not everyone agrees with me, I think that's a good thing.



posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic



Originally posted by jsobecky
And it does no good to bring in an opposing viewpoint the day or week after. It's only fair that s/he be there to counter Bennish's arguments as they are made.


Why? Who made the rule that the opposing voice cannot present the next day or the day before? Where do you get these strict guidelines?

And how do you (or anyone) know that Bennish or someone else didn't present an opposing voice on the very same day? This has not been discussed, except that Bennish says he did. During the other 30 minutes that mysteriously weren't taped, he says there was plenty of opposing discussion.

It's obvious that the only "opposing discussion" came from the students.

It's also obvious why it is important for someone to oppose his viewpoint as it is being presented. Wait till tomorrow, and the challenger has no way of knowing whether he has addressed all points that Bennish brought up.




So…
We have Jake, unable or unwilling to say what specifically Bennish did wrong.
We have Shots, mistakenly accusing Bennish of errors in his lecture and that’s what HE thinks Bennish did wrong - Make mistakes - and therefore shouldn't be teaching.
We have Jsobecky, who made up some arbitrary rules that Bennish didn’t follow and (as far as I know) that’s what she thinks Bennish did that was unquestionably wrong.
And we have esdad71, playing judge, jury and school board, claiming a guilty verdict without ever having been in contact with anyone in the case, but by hearing one 20-minute tape of one 50-minute class and apparently soaking up FOX news' reporting of the story.

And you guys are all eligible for jury duty in this country?

I made up no arbitrary rules. I was referring to the school district's rules which require an opposing viewpoint.

You admit that what the teacher did was to deliver a left-wing rant.
Yet you ignore the fact that he has gone against school policy in providing an opposing viewpoint.
You also minimize the fact that the teacher has had prior complaints.
You cannot explain why you think the student was "at fault".
And you wrap it up with an ad hominem attack.



posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
It's obvious that the only "opposing discussion" came from the students.


In that 20-minute segment, yes.



It's also obvious why it is important for someone to oppose his viewpoint as it is being presented. Wait till tomorrow, and the challenger has no way of knowing whether he has addressed all points that Bennish brought up.


But this is just your opinion. The school has no such regulation (or did I miss something?) And no, it's not obvious to me.



I made up no arbitrary rules. I was referring to the school district's rules which require an opposing viewpoint.


The school's rules say the opposite viewpoint must be presented the same day? If not, then you made it up.



Yet you ignore the fact that he has gone against school policy in providing an opposing viewpoint.


I'm not ignoring it, I don't know that! In the 20-minute tape, no, there wasn't much of an opposing viewpoint presented. Do you happen to have the school's regulations where it says that the teacher must present opposing viewpoint?


Originally posted by jsobecky
You also minimize the fact that the teacher has had prior complaints.


By saying that every teacher gets complaints? Yes, he had some complaints 3 years ago. They were reconciled. It was worked out. How long shall we hold that against him?



You cannot explain why you think the student was "at fault".


Sure I can. He taped only an 'incriminating' special lecture instead of the whole day or several days and presented a one-sided argument, not to the teacher or the principal or the school district, but to the conservative sensationalist media on the other side of the country.



Source
Allen claims he was taping his teacher, Jay Bennish, in order to have better notes. But, as Alan Colmes asked, why did he only tape 20 minutes of the class? Allen claimed it was because that was the only part that contained the teacher’s lecture.
...
If he's so upset about the teacher that he had to get the word out on talk radio, why would Allen want the teacher to continue?
...
Allen: "I’ve just been trying to get back to being a normal high school student but every time they come out with more false attacks… I feel to a very great extent these people are trying to divert attention from the situation.”


Now he knows how his teacher feels.


I actually feel sorry for the kid. For both of them. This could have been resolved in the school. Allen didn't know just what kind of crap he would stir up.

On Bennish and Allen:


Source
He's been suspended, his students miss him, his dad has been threatened; the kid has to change schools mid-year and that's never easy even under good circumstances. All this fallout because a teacher challenged tenth-graders to think about their world and that didn't sit well with someone. No thinking in school!



posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 05:48 PM
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Why did Sean tape this again? To study? For his father?



Source
Sean, who appeared on Rosen's show Wednesday morning, said in an interview he had been disturbed by the "political rants" he heard in Bennish's class. He added that he wanted to tape the session for his father, who later shared it with the media.


:shk: Sounds like he and his father wanted to stir up some trouble...



School Policy on Controversial Subjects
To keep consideration of vital and controversial topics out of the schools is to handicap students in getting facts, discussing problems and reaching conclusions on their own, both in school and in later life. Freedom to learn is an implied right in a democracy.
...
He also has the obligation to be as objective as possible and to present fairly the several sides of an issue. Although he has the right to express his own viewpoint and opinions, he does not have the right to indoctrinate students to his views. Controversial issues are to be presented with good judgment, keeping in mind the maturity and background of the students.


I don't find anything about the necessity of opposing viewpoints being presented on the same day or at the same time.

My judgment is that Bennish could probably be more objective and fair in presenting both viewpoints, but that's just a guess. He may come in the next day with a pro-Bush bumper sticker across his chest and his hair tucked up under his hat and talk about how important it is that we spread democracy and freedom across this great land of ours! Oh, and kill all the terr'ists, too!



posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 06:07 PM
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It would appear that there will be no solution to this matter at least not today. The meeting ended in a political dispute.




Spat over Bennish ends school board meeting

Angry members of the State Board of Education abruptly ended their meeting today in a partisan dispute over whether to condemn Overland High School social studies teacher Jay Bennish.
Board member Bob Schaffer offered the motion condemning Bennish, saying his tirade against Bush and U.S. foreign policy before a captive audience of students was irresponsible.

Schaffer, a Republican, had the support of his three GOP colleagues on the board. The four Democrats on the board were opposed.

Republicans refused to let the meeting proceed unless the motion was heard. At the same time, the Democrats refused to let the meeting proceed unless the motion was omitted from the agenda.




Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Let me get this right did I just say political dispute? Yes, sad to say, that is just what I had to say. It would appear we no longer have humans running our schools that base their decisions on school board rules/policies, nope can't have that, now we have to make out decision based on our political parties. :shk: :shk: :shk: :shk:

How Despicable Can They Get?



[edit on 3/9/2006 by shots]



posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The school's rules say the opposite viewpoint must be presented the same day? If not, then you made it up.


I never said the policy required opposing viewpoints be presented the same day. I said that would be best in the interest of a fair discussion. You know that.


I'm not ignoring it, I don't know that! In the 20-minute tape, no, there wasn't much of an opposing viewpoint presented. Do you happen to have the school's regulations where it says that the teacher must present opposing viewpoint?

I have the word of the superintendent:

Superintendent Monte Moses, who received a copy of the recording on Monday from 850 KOA-AM radio show host Mike Rosen, said it appears "a breach of district policy" occurred.

"Our policy calls for both sides to be present...in the interest of intellectual discourse," Moses said. Bennish's presentation appeared to be unbalanced, he said.
www.denverpost.com...

Notice the super's choice of words: present, not presented. So the super's words support my suggestion.





You cannot explain why you think the student was "at fault".



Sure I can. He taped only an 'incriminating' special lecture instead of the whole day or several days and presented a one-sided argument, not to the teacher or the principal or the school district, but to the conservative sensationalist media on the other side of the country.


That doesn't make him at fault. And he regularly taped lectures, in Bennish's class and others.



posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 11:34 PM
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and for those students, such as my son, there is gifted or advanced placement classes. Public is only as bad as you make it.



posted on Mar, 10 2006 @ 12:01 AM
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Day 1: George Bush isn't just like Hitler. It's just his policies and beliefs that are like Hitler. He still doesn't have a little moustache. It wasn't America that led the war against Germany, anyway, it was England. Can anyone point out where England is?

Day 2: The Jews are idiots for believing they were slaves in Egypt. The truth is, they were Canaanites who wanted to steal the land from other Canaanites, so they killed everyone who opposed them and came up with a new history and based a false religion around it. Can anyone point out where the Jew controlled England is?

Day 3: Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Republicans are evil. They just want to kill you by destroying the environment and put businesses in charge of every waking hour you have, give them rights to your home, and give them rights to your children, as well. Can anyone point out where the Republicans all come from, England?

Day 15: So really, America had no right to rebel against England formerly in 1776, and it has been a rebel nation ever since, killing anyone who opposes its will. Can someone in the class point out where England is?

Day 16: Ok, I hope you all did your reading. As you read, Mr. Moore explains that business is actually what drives all political decisions by the Republican party, whereas the Democrats try to look out for the little guy. Can anyone find England today?

Day 47: So in reality, Hugo Chavez is looking out for the good of the world. That's why he's made such comments about America. He knows that America is the worst thing to strike the face of the Earth, and he is a true humanitarian in trying to muster support to topple the evil empire. Now, instead of pointing out where Venezuela is, let's see if anyone's found where England is yet.

Day 83: Now be sure to get this definition down. Socialism is the ultimate form of government, causing all people to be both happy and equal. Capitalist societies thrive on inequality, racism, and hatred. America is what? Well, yes, Cindy, America is a horrible land, but what style of government is it? Right, Jim, it's an evil capitalist fascism. Now yesterday, Jill was able to find England on the map! Can anyone else point to where it is?

Day 112: Ok, so, to review the quiz. Will someone read question 4?
-Who is Condoleezza Rice?
And does anyone know the answer?
-The Secretary of State!
No, Jill. Condoleezza Rice is not the Secretary of State, she's an "Uncle Tom". I gave you that definition last week, you really should have gotten it down.

Day 156: So on the final, 30% of your grade will be based on one essay question. I want you all to be able to describe for me what is horrible about America. I expect some research to be done beforehand, since I'm giving you the exact question a week in advance. This is a big part of your grade, people. Be sure to look into it.

Day 162: Tomorrow's the final. For review, we're going to finish watching Fahrenheit 9-11, since most of the final is covered in the movie. Since it seems Jill is the only one who can find England on the map, I've taken that question off of the final, so don't worry about that. Focus on your essay question, who the real people were who bombed the world trade center, what Ms. Rice is, and our other definitions. Mr. Moore will go through a lot of them during the film.

Day 164: Well, class, I haven't finished grading all of your finals, but it looks like the class passed with flying colors! Way to go! Now, in the interest of fairness and because a capitalist evil Republican government forces me to, I should tell you, there are some crackpots who don't agree with some of the things I've been telling you. They're wrong, but foolishly they ignore all the facts and disagree with what I've told you. For instance, some people would claim that Mr. Bush and Uncle Rice didn't bomb the World Trade Center. I know, I know, but they've convinced themselves that it was Arab terrorists so they could hate, thus breeding more capitalism.

[edit on 3/10/06/10 by junglejake]



posted on Mar, 10 2006 @ 04:27 PM
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Well, the teacher, Bennish, has regained his place in the classroom. This is Breaking News, not many details available yet.

Unfortunately, the biggest loser seems to be the innocent student.

Edit: link to the story:
www.foxnews.com...




[edit on 10-3-2006 by jsobecky]



posted on Mar, 10 2006 @ 07:12 PM
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Heck, when I was in high school if there was word going around there was a walk out to support a teacher. Most of my friends would have done it to skip school, and not in support of the teacher.

I feel the teacher should teach the class, and not his political beliefs. Teenagers are smart, but the teacher is a teacher not a preacher. If he wants to preach, the Catholic church needs some priests I bet.

I hate when someone in a position of power uses it for there means to minors. Even in there eyes they feel it is the right thing to do.

It is like when a police officer feels they are the law, when instead they are a representitive of the law. There is a huge difference



posted on Mar, 10 2006 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
Well, the teacher, Bennish, has regained his place in the classroom. This is Breaking News, not many details available yet.

Unfortunately, the biggest loser seems to be the innocent student.

Edit: link to the story:
www.foxnews.com...



JS you should have used this link since it fits him to a T.

Commie Teacher, Jay Bennish Reinstated

There is no doubt in my mind the outcome was not based what is best for the students but on the threat on a lawsuit and party affiliations of the members of the board. :shk:

May be we might get lucky and others will file a recall petition






[edit on 3/10/2006 by shots]



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 08:20 AM
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Clearly, the school board who voted to reinstate Bennish had much more information than any of us here and they saw fit to do the right thing. I didn't mention it the other day, but when the 'new evidence' came into being, I suspected it could have been evidence that was favorable to Bennish.

Bennish is obviously very popular and well-liked by most of his students, as he mentioned their support many times. There are always going to be at least one or two students who don't like the teacher and perhaps this was the case here. But any teacher who has such passion, in my opinion, is a valuable asset to the public school system. The danger is that they can neglect to present the other side, and if that did indeed happen here, I doubt it will happen again.

I feel real bad for the kid. His life has changed dramatically, while everyone else's is going back to normal. I hope he learned the valuable lessons here and doesn't take it to mean that he shouldn't ask for what he wants and what he thinks is right. I think if he had gone about it in a different way, this could have been resolved without nearly as much upheaval and perhaps everyone would be getting back to normal on Monday.

Having said that...




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