A good handgun for home defense?

The 9mm Barreta is the best weapon you can get your hands-on...everything else is not following the rule "Keep it simple stupid".

It's the same reason that the US is far superior to Jihadis...because the US uses the M-9 Barreta and the M-16 instead of the more complex and less useful AK-47 (which has too much of a kick to be useful in combat anyway).

The M9 breaks down very easily and is reassembled very easily for in-combat repairs and cleaning and the M-9 is far more accurate with little kick.

Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
It's the same reason that the US is far superior to Jihadis...because the US uses the M-9 Barreta and the M-16 instead of the more complex and less useful AK-47 (which has too much of a kick to be useful in combat anyway).

I don't know where you got the idea that an AK is more complicated than an M-16, because it is just not true. Kalashnikov's design is almost universally appreciated for its remarkable simplicity. The recoil of the 7.62x39 is mild compared to the 7.62NATO of the M-14 or the .30 cal. of the M-1.

I really don't know much about the Beretta, but my personal opinion is that US military superiority owes nothing to the Beretta.

[edit on 2006/3/8 by GradyPhilpott]

not to mention if you think the 7.62x39 has too much recoil you definitely dont belong in a combat situation. of course this is coming from someone who thinks our infantry rifles are insufficient and should be .308 personally in a side by side test using an sks and a 16.5" bushmaster ar-15 in .223 I couldnt feel a difference and I only weigh 145 lbs! the problem with the AK's, IMHO, is poor accuracy.

Winchester Ranger T makes an excellent point about how the pistol's grip fits your hand. its the sole reason I chose the sw40ve over the glock, and all others for that matter. if you have smaller hands like me definitely look at them. I have a friend who had an earlier model Sigma, I believe it was the sw40v, that had some reliability issues. it seems their enhanced models were a little more polished & had these issues resolved. I'm not 100% certain of the chronology of this line, someone help me out here.

I would never use any centerfire rifle or fmj round for home defense for fear of over penetration. I have a wife & kids & cant afford that risk. of course with sheetrock walls its a moot point if you miss your target! like stated earlier, whatever you get practice, practice & practice some more.


Winchester Ranger T, on a similar note have you seen any polymer tip bullets in pistol calibers? looking for something similar to a nosler ballistic tip or swift scirocco to load for a .40, .45 & .357 sig. the closest I have found were some .45 cal muzzleloader bullets that come encased in a .50 cal sabot. I'm not sure if there is a difference in diameter or not so I'm staying away from that experiment. dont mean to hijack the thread but these would be a more accurate alternative to a hollow point with similar penetration characteristics.

[edit on 9-3-2006 by metalmessiah]

I suggest taking a look at Extreme Shock AFR (Air Freedom Round) for a self defence bullet, Extreme Expansion combined to no overpenetration and bullet shatters into dust when it hits hard surfaces...


PS. AK is accurate, if the gun tested is not one of those that have circlated worlds hot spots for 2 decades... straight out of the factory russian AKs are accurate weapons (is the 100m group 30mm or 100mm is really not important for assault rifle ((seen AKs do both)))

Funny, the Beretta is a fairly complex pistol as far as I heard, and expensive too.

IMO the AK-47 and the 1911 are the more reliable firearms in the world.

I shot a winchester 30-30 rifle before which is very similar in power/dimensions/recoil of a soviet M43 7.62x39mm round and I found it to be very mild recoil, esspecially compared to a 12ga I shot...YOUCH, my arm was sore the entire day (not to mention my ears!).

I keep a 9mm Sig next to me at night. I HIGHLY recomend it.

I own a lot of hand guns, from a 9mm Kahr, both 9mm and .40 Browning Hipowers, and a Wilson Combat .45

Of them, my favorite is the Sig. Just a great gun. I'd say to go for the Wilson, but it's a bit much for your first fire arm.

Sigs are less money than a USP, Five Seven and about the same as a glock or Beretta.

How about those hi-points? they are butt ugly but good pistols I heard.

USPs can be had for much lower prices now since the introduction of the newer P2000, check out CDNN for the best deals:

www.cdnninvestments.com...

As for the Hi Point, they are notable in that they make what is quite possibly the ugliest pistol in the world, but, it carries with it a lifetime guarantee I believe.

What makes it especially interesting is that they make a blowback 9mm Parabellum and even more surprisingly a blowback .40S&W, something that most people mistakenly believe is impossible. The reason for this can be found in the size and weight of the slide, hence the ugliness.

If you need a cheap gun right now, get a Makarov in 9x18 or a police trade in .38 Spl such as the ubiquitous (and very good) Model 10. If you can wait, get yourself into Sig or HK territory, and if you have to wait until you are very old and very fat, get yourself a 1911 style pistol

I have refrained from posting on this thread because I'm still waiting to be dazzled by skep. Please, pretty please dazzle us.

Originally posted by Astronomer68
I have refrained from posting on this thread because I'm still waiting to be dazzled by skep. Please, pretty please dazzle us.

I challenged him to do the same - so far zip.

Tssk, one of you tells me not to go with a Mak because they are crap and have a crap round and Winchester you tell me to go with it! lol.

I held some Hi-Points today, I quite like their .40/45 pistol line, they are not too bad looking (not much worse than a glock) and a Hi-Point Carbine which is fabulous, I just love the peep sight!

So I am almost surely going for that, the Makarov's ammo is just way too expensive.

Makarov is adequate for defence... If Win says they're accurate enough it's good for me, my only experience is from a smuggled from USSR at 1980's example..

But I'd still take any used .38/.357 revolver in decent condition.. My firend just bought a S&W L Frame from 1975 and it still outshoots most modern pistols and trigger is heavenly

Originally posted by northwolf
But I'd still take any used .38/.357 revolver in decent condition..

For a home defense weapon, nothing beats that choice. Load it once and put it in a safe place and it will be there ready to be placed into action at a moments notice. About the only maintenance a stainless steel model would need in such a scenario is an occasional bore swab and a light coat of oil--very light.

Revolvers are bulky and they don't look like much fun for target practice, the Makarov and Polish P64 are dinky and about the same size as the PKK.

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
Revolvers are bulky and they don't look like much fun for target practice, the Makarov and Polish P64 are dinky and about the same size as the PKK.

That's a fair point, but bulk is not a major consideration in home defence, as the weapon does not need to be concealed. As for "not much fun for target practice", it's home defence we're talking about - shooting someone isn't much fun at the best of times.



[edit on 11-3-2006 by PaddyInf]

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
Revolvers are bulky and they don't look like much fun for target practice, the Makarov and Polish P64 are dinky and about the same size as the PKK.

I don't know where you're coming up with these generalizations. You want a small revolver? Check these out:

www.naaminis.com...

However, this one is more in line with the topic at hand:

www.gunblast.com...

Too heavy for you?

www.gunblast.com...

This little Rossi M88 is what I keep handy:

external image

Originally posted by PaddyInf
That's a fair point, but bulk is not a major consideration in home defence, as the weapon does not need to be concealed. As for "not much fun for target practice", it's home defence we're talking about - shooting someone isn't much fun at the best of times.

You hit the nail on the head.

I have recently shot a number of different 9mm semi autos, and the Berreta is IMO one of the best in that price range. Very little recoil, cleans easily, and the factory sights are very accurate.

I personally don't care for the ultra light 9mm pistols as the recoil is only slightly less than my springfield .45 and the bullet is much smaller. Of course I'm used to fireing .45 and the recoil difference could be bigger someone else. If your going to get a 9 definetly pick one with some weight to it.

Or you could go all out like a buddy of mine and buy a .44 mag Desert Eagle. I would never use that in a home, but it definitely gets attention at the range.

For home defense get a Mossberg 590. It's a 12 guage shotgun with a 20" barrell and a 9 shot mag. For personal defense get a Sig Sauer P226 DAK in the .40S&W round. It has way more stopping power than a 9mm (Without the over-penetration risks) but lacks the recoil punch of a .45. Any other weapons are simply a waste of time and money.

I could load up thousands of lines of text on this post as to why I say that, but I haven't the time. Take it from a certified shooting instructor (me), these are the only two weapons of choice.

I have to agree with Paddy Inf on the revolver bit. Bulk is not a issue for home defense. Neither is concealment a issue.
My main home defense tool is a Ithaca Model 37 12 gauge pump in 20 inch barrel. it is a olde police issue shotgun. Works fine, lasts along time. Loads and ejects through the bottom. Left handers really like it alot. Its not fancy, not good looking, not flashy, but it is strictly buisness and I respect that in my tools.

I also own revolvers which are target grade ...very accurate. You dont have to shoot alot to put your rounds where then need to go. Revolvers can be every bit as accurate in target shooting as semi autos. Some more so. Good sights make a big difference here...revolver or semi auto. It was quite a eye opener for me to learn this about sights. Many out of the box factory sights are barely useful to me. If I keep a gun or rifle ..I put the sights I want on them.

Mind you now Ground Zero..I may have a different perspective on target shooting than most. I shoot to dicipline myself to put my rounds where I desire them to go. Very difficult some days verses others...but dicipline is the key here..not just shooting for fun per se.
Also target grade pistols and rifles are not necessarily home defense grade.

The poster who posted the picture of the Rossi revolver...stainless ...I bought one for the woman I am seeing in .357 caliber...blued 5 shot. She is a apartment manager and needs a concealed piece more than do I. She has it loaded with .38 specials. Someone stoled her Smith Airweight and I replaced it with that one. It shoots better than the SMith Airweight. The Airweight was to light ...recoil was horrible on it. The Rossi is much better.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Well I have to admit I have a bias towards semi-auto pistols.

A revolver to me is completely unatractive and doesn't have of much of an imtimidation factor (unless they have a long barrel), my wife most definitly wouldn't touch one since she hates them and is afraid of recoil which is handled much differently from a pistol.

Also, once a round is chambered, jams for the first shot wont occur, under the best circumstances only one shot is required, granted follow up shots COULD jam but still that would have to be completely rotten luck.

A Shotgun could jam too under circumstances, especially if it doubles as a hunting shotgun you just used in the field and forgot to clean when you changed the barrel to the home-defense configuration.

In all probability, a BAD semi-auto pistol could jam about every 6 shots which is pretty extreme, while a revolver has only 6 shots (granted they all fire with complete reliability), so I don't see the point why to shy away from a semi-auto for self-defense and home-defense.

Most cops have semi-auto's for their defense and they aren't too concerned about it jamming, if pistols would really be that prone to jamming they would still have revolvers with quick-reload cardridges.

I suppose personal preference is the biggest issue here, a semi-auto affords more rounds in the mag and has better follow-up shot capability since it's semi auto, a revolver has to be recocked or you have to pull the trigger double-action (which is pretty rough I believe), granted I have never had experience with revolvers so I couldn't judge very well in this case.

Another issue is simply cost, most reasonable revolvers are around 250-300 bucks, 150 for junky ones like Nagants and other relics, a Hi-Point .40cal is only 150 bucks and has excellent reliablity, more so than many other guns.

Check out this review and you will now what I mean: shooting times article