Disclosure is a bad idea.

It depends on what you mean by disclosure. It is a very general term, with several scenarios.

CloudlessKnight, what scenario are you basing your assumptions on?

I view disclosure as that some proof is made available in some way that it is clear that extraterrestrials exist and may be occasionally visiting our corner of the universe. Ok, so this knowledge would make for interesting media coverage and now everyone knows. What would change just from the knowing they exist? Not much, in my opinion.

Another scenario could be that the government is going to release all information they have been keeping secret throughout history. Ok, so we might find some incredible footage and reports from credible witnesses. Well we already have that, so why would this change anything? Unless you think the government is collaborating with aliens, or have been allowing them to abduct people, or that they are hiding some blueprints for energy devices or something. In my opinion, I don’t think the government knows much more than we do, but I do think they do have proof.

Originally posted by CloudlessKnight
The first thing we would see is a given... For a week or so there would be much looting and rampaging throughout from the "It's the end of the world!" types.

This might happen if there was an alien invasion, but what makes you think this would happen because of disclosure?

a new, reinforced distrust of government would follow

If disclosure came from the government, yes, people would not trust the government anymore and that is why they will never fully disclose everything, for example: the recovery of a crash at Roswell.

One of the next symptoms of catastrophy we would see will be found in our economy. The competetive drive of our industries would most likely cease.

Again, why would this happen because of disclosure? Even if new technology is made available, this would bring new industry and new jobs. The obsolete tech and industry would obviously suffer, but we have made industry transitions before in the past. For example, we went from animal power to steam power to electrical power. I don’t recall any collapse of the economy because of new technology.

And this is assuming that the aliens don't just come in and take control of everything.

Why would aliens come and take over because of disclosure? I think you are referring to an invasion, which I think if this was their intention, they would have invaded already. Your assuming that because of disclosure, that means all of a sudden we will have contact with the aliens. How would this happen, unless the aliens decided to make a public appearance? Again, I think if that were their intention, it would have happened already.

No, I don’t think disclosure would not be as devastating as your scenario. I think more people would be interested in the subject and there would more be an increase in funding for real scientific research. If we could contact them, and if they turned out to be friendly, maybe we could learn from them. That could mean whole new industries and new technology that could change the destructive path we are on.

Overall, I think disclosure would be great.

I think you have a point.

I've thought about this before. I watch the tv show "Charmed" (three sisters who are witches with magical powers and such that they use to fight off evil (demons)) and in one episode, they've accidentally exposed their powers to the media, who immediately take it on a roll and in no time, people are surrounding their house with craziness. People were waving "End of the World!" and "Take Me With You!" posters and one lady even shoots one of them. This got me thinking - what if it was definitely proven that extraterrestrials exist? Would the same thing happen in the real world? While they may be benevolent, some people may not believe that, and instantly start riots and such, causing world chaos, thanks to movies and television and such who are constantly promoting that fact that extraterrestrials are evil or simply want to vanquish to the Human Race to use our planet for their own. Why would people do this? Because in order for it to be proven, there has to be solid evidence that they do and when people see that evidence, some of them will say "its a hoax," others will stay strong / calm and the rest will completely freak out.

But on the flip side, another race of creatures from another planet may be the very thing that can help us save ours. If they are intelligent, they may be able to help us cure deadly human diseases that we haven't been able to, convince countries that nuclear war is horrible and in the end...world peace? Who knows. Maybe they're having some problems on their planet as well, and are in search of help from us or answers from the Earth itself. Right now, I think they're just studying us, they want to find out what the hell we are, what our necessities are for life, etc., which is understandable because if we ever got the chance to send Humans to an Alien planet, Lord knows we'd study them and probably even hope to dissect one.

Bottom line - As much as I want to know for sure if they exist or not, I think the best thing to do would be to keep it under wraps until we know that they definitely exist and are benevolent. The media especially shouldn't know because the worst thing for the planet would be having "Armageddon - Aliens to Attack Earth" on the headline of every newspaper.

[edit on 4-3-2006 by xacrosstime]

OTOH, if Disclosure did happen, what would it mean to us UFO researchers? what if the Gov says that aliens look like big amoeba type things that just crawl about?

Nothing like the Greys or anything like that...

I am sure it would have a profound effect on us pesky humans, but I highly doubt people will riot, esspecially not if the Gov admits they are benign.

Let's assume ET and UFO's are for real.

Disclosure has to come IMO because:

Technology is advancing very fast:
- In the next 10 years powerfull telescopes will be able to discover if there are similar planets as earth orbiting on nearby suns.
- Space tourism is advancing. What if a bunch of tourists watch UFO's passing by? They are not astronauts from the NASA, they are free to speak.
- New theories of FTL travel are coming up. If the possibility of travelling between suns is prooved, then the possibility that we are visited by UFO's is given.

We are living in a democracy (I hope):
So I don't know why a handfull of people should decide what is good or not for the rest of us.

Secrets are getting harder to keep:
We hear now UFO stories for more than 50 years. More and more people are involved in this secrecy. Can't think no one of all this people would want to share this.

We don't know what the ET's want:
They must be technologically far more advanced than we are. Should they want to attack us they could have done it long ago. May be they want only to help us.

Economic crash after disclosure:
Only if the ET's give us all their secrets. I can't imagine the ET's being so stupid. I think the economy will get boosted. The minds will be more open to new ideas (as we see what possibilities the ET's have), more research, new products, ...

We have a big problem with the global warming:
The USA don't care (Bush doesn't care), possibly because they have technology to replace oil when needed (technology given by the ET's?)

All this leads me to think that disclosure could be a reality soon, ... if ET's exist.

I think its a good idea.

While my Grandparents may or may not be effected by disclosure , I feel that my children and grandchildren would and will benefit.

( I have seen with my own eye's a UFO that obviously did not burn fossil fuel ! )

I mean to make no political statement there!

Only that the BIGGEST STORY in Human History is being suppressed!

That's not an idle statement either , I have several threads on ATS that demonstrate what I'm talking about.









[edit on 5-3-2006 by lost_shaman]

Originally posted by Hal9000
CloudlessKnight, what scenario are you basing your assumptions on?

I view disclosure as that some proof is made available in some way that it is clear that extraterrestrials exist and may be occasionally visiting our corner of the universe. Ok, so this knowledge would make for interesting media coverage and now everyone knows. What would change just from the knowing they exist? Not much, in my opinion.

Another scenario could be that the government is going to release all information they have been keeping secret throughout history. Ok, so we might find some incredible footage and reports from credible witnesses. Well we already have that, so why would this change anything? Unless you think the government is collaborating with aliens, or have been allowing them to abduct people, or that they are hiding some blueprints for energy devices or something. In my opinion, I don’t think the government knows much more than we do, but I do think they do have proof.

The scenario I'm basing my opinion on is one where a government (such as the U.S.) suddenly decides to let everyone know that they know ET exists, and then tells us what they know...

I admit, this is where it would get fuzzy. The reaction of the people would be dependant on specifically what information was released. If, for example, U.S. citizens learned that their government had allowed EBEs to abduct them, their families, their neighbors, and other fellow citizens all in exchange for alien technology (technology that we [the ones suffering the consequences] have no access to, mind you), without their knowledge or consent, people would certainly revolt. I do not see a likely scenario where they would not. After all, how can you trust a government that would allow that to happen? Why keep them in power?

This is the point where a reform of government would be in order. A big reform. Outraged citizens would organize active protests, most of which would probably get out of hand and turn violent. So one of two things would probably happen...

1) The people revolt and overthrow the government. Opportunists sieze power. Low income opportunists steal and loot. All is complete anarchy, at least for a while (but long enough for a lot of damage to be done).

2) The government uses military and police to suppress riots, causing even more anger towards the government. Martial law could even be declared under the right circumstances, and many rights could be taken away for an undefinable amount of time. Illogical laws even worse than the Patriot Act could be passed. And even after everything calms down, what is there to assure us that we would even get all our rights back? Already, America is but a shadow of its former self...

Originally posted by Hal9000
Again, why would this happen because of disclosure? Even if new technology is made available, this would bring new industry and new jobs. The obsolete tech and industry would obviously suffer, but we have made industry transitions before in the past. For example, we went from animal power to steam power to electrical power. I don’t recall any collapse of the economy because of new technology.

I believe this would be a different type of transition. During industrial shifts in the past, we've worked on developing new technologies within our own species. Meaning we actually had something to work towards. The want of creating technology in the past is due to the fact that no technologies of the sort, at that time, existed. If technologies are just handed to us, what is there to keep us moving forward?

Here's an anology... What if your 3 year old child handed you a crayon picture of a puppy that she spent all day creating, with love and pride, just to give to you as a present. But instead of telling your child how beautiful that drawing is, you crumble it up and hand her a printed photograph of a puppy, and explain that photographs are better and there is no need for her to continue drawing with crayons...?

Does that make sense? I hope I'm not losing anyone.

For the record, I don't think that aliens are here for any malevolent agenda to take over our world. Then again, I'm not saying they aren't. But there's really no evidence to prove either way. And saying that just because they could've done it already but haven't, is not proof. Absense of evidence is not evidence.

[edit on 5-3-2006 by CloudlessKnight]

I have often felt that alot of these conspiracies, such as Roswell, have been planned events so as to get the human psyche ready for disclosure.

I think that over the past 60 years it has been a plan to slowly create a suspection that they are visiting us, then that they are here, until finally so many think that they are here and that they aren't being told the truth that then the truth will be let out. Making it seem as if it was forced out and thus easier to accept.

Then again I could be totally wrong.

@Cloudlessnight
I don't think the reasons you gave are the real reasons for secrecy.
1. Disclosure would mean the military revealing that they have alien technology, yet they are unwilling to share it.
2. Maybe there is some real threat to our existence. The grey ones seem to be up to no good. This would cause panic.

As many of the other races seem friendly I think disclosure should happen. After all I think people have the right to know the truth.
We need to embrace new technology to end war, suffering and the destruction of our planet. This cannot wait. It is more important than anything else.

Originally posted by CloudlessKnight
The scenario I'm basing my opinion on is one where a government (such as the U.S.) suddenly decides to let everyone know that they know ET exists, and then tells us what they know...

I admit, this is where it would get fuzzy. The reaction of the people would be dependant on specifically what information was released.

This is the point I was making. It depends on what information is released. If it is bad, the government will never allow that type of disclosure to happen. I personally don't believe the US government has had a technology exchange with aliens or anything like that, so I don't think disclosure would be a bad thing.

Now if you go with the worst-case scenario, then I could see people getting upset and possibly some riots might occur during demonstrations. But this is the worst-case scenario and not a “given”, as you said earlier. I think a degree of disclosure would be healthy, but the government is to busy with the WOT, so I wouldn’t expect anything to happen anytime soon.

I believe this would be a different type of transition. During industrial shifts in the past, we've worked on developing new technologies within our own species. Meaning we actually had something to work towards. The want of creating technology in the past is due to the fact that no technologies of the sort, at that time, existed. If technologies are just handed to us, what is there to keep us moving forward?

I understand what your saying. When a more advanced civilization interacts with a primitive one, the result historically has been devastating to the lesser-advanced culture. But who says the aliens are just going to give us all this knowledge or that they will interact with us? You didn’t specify that in your original post. Again, I think you are giving results of a worst-case scenario, but I think there are other more likely scenarios.

For the record, I don't think that aliens are here for any malevolent agenda to take over our world. Then again, I'm not saying they aren't. But there's really no evidence to prove either way. And saying that just because they could've done it already but haven't, is not proof. Absense of evidence is not evidence.

It also does not mean that they will invade either.

Regards

i think also that we are being led in the direction to beleive in aliens.40 years ago it would have been very upsetting to the world,s sanity.but also for the last 40 years our children are constantly getting information about aliens and such. movies, comics,books, it is very much part of their life now.maybe another generation or so ,the truth will come out to a world population that can psychologicaly handle it.but, i'm hoping for sooner

Originally posted by CloudlessKnight
For as long as I can remember, I've been for official disclosure of EBE's by our governments... But I recently got to thinking about it. That may not be such a good idea.

Here is why I believe that absolute disclosure of aliens by any government would be extremely catastrophic.

The first thing we would see is a given... For a week or so there would be much looting and rampaging throughout from the "It's the end of the world!" types. It might calm down after a while, but only with assistance from our local friendly riot police. Most people will keep their heads on straight, but a new, reinforced distrust of government would follow, strengthened by the actions that will have to be taken to keep the first riots under control.

One of the next symptoms of catastrophy we would see will be found in our economy. The competetive drive of our industries would most likely cease. One of the key strengths in capitalism is the urge for companies in a market to compete with other companies. This competition drives companies to strive for more efficiency (lower input, higher output), resulting in new and improved products and technology. If suddenly every person discovered that their entire company's work had already been fully realized and rendered obsolete by another race, then the majority of people would simply give up. The general attitude would be, "What's the point?" This would result in humans becoming more dependant on aliens and their technology, instead of the developement of our own.

Not only that, but introduction of new technologies would automate most (probably nearly all) industrial processes in the workplace, leaving millions of workers unemployed all over the world. Even though this would gradually occur anyhow due to automation resulting from a natural developement in our own technology, this would cause it to happen so spontaneously that a complete economic depression would be imminent; unavoidable.

Without jobs to maintain income, no money would be available to spend on products and services, and since no companies would be earning any money, they would collapse entirely.

The depression would bring uprisings and riots throughout the world, leaving most, if not all, of our governments overthrown.

In the ensuing chaos, those with power (money and resources) would sieze the opportunities to grab even more power, and wage private wars with others for gain of more resources, until only a few remain to rule over the confused masses...

And this is assuming that the aliens don't just come in and take control of everything.

There's probably much more to it, and I know I'm not the only one who's had the same thought.

Not only do I now think it is not a good idea for disclosure to happen, I don't think it ever will happen. Not by our government, anyways... It would have to be by aliens themselves.

But here's what I think will actually happen... It's the only thing that makes sense to me right now. Unless someone can convince me otherwise.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 2-3-2006 by CloudlessKnight]

OMG, do you really think it will be that catastrophic?
90 percent of Earths people belive in Aliens and that they come/are hear..

We are not living in the sixties anymore..disclosure will cause that we talk about it for 3 days when we get home from work or whatever...
We can handle it, it wouldnt cause so much riot, fear and panic like it would have been in the 60's.
Partly because we all believe in them, and partly because we know that every big city in the worl is gone with one push at the big red button..

To me the fact that a Nuke is pointed on every big city is more frightening than something we already know and believe..


Non-disclosure is a bad idea... how would you react when millions of ufo's are landing in the streets of the world while governments deny their existance?