NEWS: AP Video...Bush warned 4 days ahead of Katrina

Originally posted by loam
the fact that Bush LIED!

In regards to Katrina, exactly what did Bush lie about?
Post it out, point by point.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
flyersfan, you're being selfish. The federal government is obligated to help every citizen, including the stupid ones.

Please provide the article in the consitution that provides for this................

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
The federal government is obligated to help every citizen,
including the stupid ones.

Sure. But only to a certain point. We aren't a socialist welfare
state. At least not yet. Their local officials were
supposed to be doing the job. They screwed up. Then FEMA
fell short. But to just blast the White House and bypass those
at the city and state levels ... that's wrong.

Those people have personal responsibility to help themselves.
The federal government can't hold everyone's hands at all times.

people are protesting outside Texas hotels because FEMA is
evicting them out onto the street!

It's been over 5 months since the hurricane. Why haven't these
folks gotten their insurance money and/or FEMA checks, bought new
clothes, and gone out and gotten a job to support themselves?
How long does my tax money have to support them? If they are
waiting until they get back to New Orleans to get a job ... then
they are just freeloading from our tax money which could be spent on
better things - like getting ready for the bird flu pandemic that's coming.


[edit on 3/2/2006 by FlyersFan]

Bush did lie when he said " I din't know 'bout it"

FlyersFan, really, surely. I dont know exactly what transpired that day, but i do beleive Brown,(he's a staunch Republican), i watched the entire hearing, and i can tell you i do know when someone is telling the truth. HE told the truth. He was the fall guy.

This is all keeping the Cheney shooting incident out of our minds, as its supposed to.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
In regards to Katrina, exactly what did Bush lie about?
Post it out, point by point.

You're kidding, right?

Bush declared four days after the storm, "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees" that gushed deadly flood waters into New Orleans.
...

Bush appeared from a narrow, windowless room at his vacation ranch in Texas, with his elbows on a table. Hagin was sitting alongside him.

"I want to assure the folks at the state level that we are fully prepared to not only help you during the storm, but we will move in whatever resources and assets we have at our disposal after the storm," the president said.

Source.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Sure. But only to a certain point. We aren't a socialist welfare
state. At least not yet. Their local officials were
supposed to be doing the job. They screwed up. Then FEMA
fell short. But to just blast the White House and bypass those
at the city and state levels ... that's wrong.

Those people have personal responsibility to help themselves.
The federal government can't hold everyone's hands at all times.

Yeah, sure.

"An abdication of the most solemn obligation to provide for the common welfare."

Originally posted by thermopolis
Please provide the article in the consitution that provides for this................

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

...

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

US CONSTITUTION

Pleeeeze...





[edit on 2-3-2006 by loam]

Bush lied about what the government knew, and when they knew it, I believe that's the contention. It does seem valid, given the statements on the record, to the effect of 'we had no idea it would be so bad, we couldn't possibly prepare, it came out of the blue' and so on.

thermopolis, have you read the consitution?

How about just start with the first paragraph.

What kind of perfect union neglects the stoopid? What sort of Justice is it that applies only to the wealthy and educated? Who makes up the 'common', the 'general', if not the stupid?

The constitution was crafted by some of the smartest people this country has ever known, but this country was never intended to be an intellectual meritocracy, favoring the intelligent proceduraly.

Intelligence is only one factor in determining a citizen's relative worthiness in the eyes of the state. Many highly intelligent people are in prison, so it's not an accurate predictor of social responsibility or civility.

The fact that Bushies sit today and defending these lying slugs points to the dumbed down charade these people now exist in. Goebels was right repeat anything often enough and it will become a societal core belief. Too many Americans seem too far gone to be worthy of what the constitution really provides. I've said for sometime now that Americans have been lied to for so long that decerning fact and fiction is becoming more difficult. Lord does it show!

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Bush lied about what the government knew, and when they knew it, I believe that's the contention. It does seem valid, given the statements on the record, to the effect of 'we had no idea it would be so bad, we couldn't possibly prepare, it came out of the blue' and so on.

thermopolis, have you read the consitution?

How about just start with the first paragraph.

What kind of perfect union neglects the stoopid? What sort of Justice is it that applies only to the wealthy and educated? Who makes up the 'common', the 'general', if not the stupid?

The constitution was crafted by some of the smartest people this country has ever known, but this country was never intended to be an intellectual meritocracy, favoring the intelligent proceduraly.

Intelligence is only one factor in determining a citizen's relative worthiness in the eyes of the state. Many highly intelligent people are in prison, so it's not an accurate predictor of social responsibility or civility.

Nice try but "WHERE IS THE ARTICLE?"

No speculation, no it should say, just the facts please............

"promote general welfare" does not mean "cradle to grave", take my money at gunpoint and give it to some worthless bums..........

Uhm, there's two instances posted on this thread alone, one right after the other.

Want some more?

www.huffingtonpost.com...
"The good news," said the president, "is that out of this chaos is going to come a fantastic Gulf Coast, like it was before. Out of the rubble of Trent Lott's house -- he's lost his entire house -- there's gong to be a fantastic house. And I'm looking forward to sitting on the porch."

It's not going to be like it was before. And on a side note, is the POTUS really paying homage to that racist piece of crap? I'm sure Trent Lott's porch will be just fine.

Or how about Bush's line, "Bureaucracy is not going to stand in the way of getting the job done for the people."

LIAR. That's EXACTLY what happened. Why are more than ten thousand homes rotting in fields as we speak, while evacuees are getting booted from their rooms because FEMA won't foot the bill anymore. It's costing thousands of times more to arrange temporary shelter than it would have been to reconstruct permanent shelter.

Bureaucracy DID get in the way, and that's not to say Bush is solely responsible for the disastrously inept government response, but the fact of the matter is broken promises are the bread and butter of politicians who are more charismatic than they are wise.

He's a goddamned liar, and I don't

Originally posted by WyrdeOne

Bureaucracy DID get in the way, and that's not to say Bush is solely responsible for the disastrously inept government response, but the fact of the matter is broken promises are the bread and butter of politicians who are more charismatic than they are wise.

He's a goddamned liar, and I don't

Oh you are right, the 900,000 out of 2.5 million "checks" written to FAKE people was bureaucracy at its finest............

Thousands of square mile destroyed can be rebuilt in two days I guess............nice TV fantacy work you live in there "buuuddyyy"

I don't think you understand how it works Wyrde....

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
LIAR. That's EXACTLY what happened. Why are more than ten thousand homes rotting in fields as we speak, while evacuees are getting booted from their rooms because FEMA won't foot the bill anymore. It's costing thousands of times more to arrange temporary shelter than it would have been to reconstruct permanent shelter.

This is not the governments fault.
1. FEMA has to pay the hotels and other places where the evacuees are staying. FEMA can't keep paying them forever. FEMA has a budget just like every other agency.

2. Are you blaming the government for not rebuilding their houses? Doesn't work that way.
Disaster -> house destroyed -> insurance people come and confim house destroyed -> people file claim -> people recieve money -> people have choice, either rebuild or move.

In what you're talking about if you want to blame someone, then it would be either the people for not properly filing claims or just sitting back and taking advantage of the government's help, the insurance companies for either being too slow or ripping people off, or constuction companies for being too slow.

Originally posted by thesaneone
nice post But do you think people would have listened to him, If i rember right on any news stations that i saw when asked are you going to leave, a majority of people said i 've been through many hurricanes and im not worried. I dont think any warning would have change their minds. just my opinion.

not just your opinion but a straight up fact. im not a bush supporter ...infact i detest the man, but sorry you cannot fully blame him for everything that happend with katrina. most of those people that we feel so bad for had a choice to leave and didnt. therefor its there fault.
granted the government was slow to react and they fouled alot up in the process but the locals could have done alot more to help out the situation then they did.

Originally posted by loam
You're kidding, right?
Bush declared four days after the storm, "I don't
think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees"

No, I wasn't kidding. Thank you.

THAT was definately not true. Everyone for decades has
known that the levees would break eventually. Perhaps
they thought the levees would hold because the storm
wasn't as strong as originally anticipated. But that's
just a perhaps. Everyone in the country with half a brain
knows those levees are practically worthless.

As far as saying that it was a lie that the federal government
was ready ... that wasn't a lie. The feds were as ready as they
could be. They had to deal with that idiot mayor, the incompetent
Gov. and hoards of morons who decided to ride out the storm
instead of leave when they were told to. I know that some
couldn't get out ... but a whole lot of them could have and just
stayed back.



[edit on 3/2/2006 by FlyersFan]

Oh you are right, the 900,000 out of 2.5 million "checks" written to FAKE people was bureaucracy at its finest............

Thousands of square mile destroyed can be rebuilt in two days I guess............nice TV fantacy work you live in there "buuuddyyy"

So I win. Goody. But now you've gone and made another inaccurate statement and tasked me to correct it. I have not said the gulf coast could have been rebuilt in two days, I don't know where you're getting that from. I'm not the one living in a TV 'fantacy' land, I think you're projecting.

1. FEMA has to pay the hotels and other places where the evacuees are staying. FEMA can't keep paying them forever. FEMA has a budget just like every other agency.

Obviously. That's precisely why FEMA should have transitioned people into available permanent housing, which was the point I was trying to make. FEMA has a budget, and they WASTE it. Now they're going to get more, because a lot of people suffered and died due to their negligence, and guess what? They'll WASTE it again! Whee!

2. Are you blaming the government for not rebuilding their houses? Doesn't work that way.
Disaster -> house destroyed -> insurance people come and confim house destroyed -> people file claim -> people recieve money -> people have choice, either rebuild or move.

Nope. I'm blaming the government for not using the resources at their disposal to prevent, then mitigate, the finally clean up the disaster that struck the gulf coast. Thousands of aircraft and boats went unused due to procedural hang-ups and poor leadership, along with countless thousands pounds of food which spoiled (while people starved).

They spent plenty of money alright, on their own salaries, 'managing' things right into the ground, on giant contracts for sub-standard contract work at grossly inflated prices, on re-imbursements for hotel chains and cash payouts to questionable parties. The only thing more economically devastating than the Katrina event has been the aftermath.

They're going to waste at least three times the money lost to fraud..get this..INVESTIGATING FRAUD!



You can't make this stuff up. It's absolutely amazing to me that people defend these rampant inefficiencies. People say, 'like you could do any better', but that's never been my contention! My contention is simply that anybody but the government could have screwed things up just as completely for MUCH LESS MONEY.



Edit: Censor circumvention.

[edit on 2-3-2006 by intrepid]

Originally posted by dgtempe
i do beleive Brown..... He was the fall guy.

I fully agree with you. Absolutely. He was the fall guy.
The Mayor of New Orleans got off. The Gov. of Louisiana
got off as well. I'm sure there are those in the fed. gov't
that got off.

My points - ya'll can't park this at Bush's doorstep. There were
too many yahoooos who screwed up, all up and down the chain.

- No, the buck doesn't stop at the White House with this. Too
many idiots in the muck to be able to just point at one.

- If Bush said that the levee breaks were unexpected ... that's
a freak'n stupid and totally untrue thing thing to say.

- It's been 5 months. FIVE MONTHS. FEMA doesn't have to support
those folks - via my tax money - in hotels and cruise ships forever.
They should have jobs by now and they should be paying their own
bills.

- New Orleans shouldn't be rebuilt. It's a below sea level bowl,
next to an ocean full of large hurricanes. To rebuild is dumb and
I don't want to bail them all out again with my tax money. (which,
from what i've been reading today, should be spent on Bird Flu
preparations)

My father in law was mayor of a medium sized city in Florida for 2 terms and was on city coucil for over 25, so after this happened I figured I would talk to him about it she he has been involved in local and state politics for years.

He stated that it is the responsibility of the local government to coordinate any types of rescue and releif efforts. Then, if it becomes to hard or more assitance is needed, state help, (fire,police national guard) are generally called. The state must then request the federal government to act. This is what happened, so where is the problem?

New Orleans was not prepared.



Did you know that the response to Katrina was faster than Andrew, and that town was desoryed overnight. Flattened. Nothing left and now where to go.

It was a breakdown within one of the most corrupt police forces in the nation coupled with one of the poorest and crime ridden areas in the nation. Does no one remember the helicopters that were shot at? The ambulances that were shot cops? The police that we shot at?

What most of you do not understand, is that this is not a one off event. We are entering a storm cycle where this will be the norm for the next 15-20 years. Last time the levees held then broke, but this time there will be nothing there and it will fill up like a soup bowl.

What happened to that sea of mobile homes???? They are disintegrating just sitting there....

For those of you who dont want the government wasting your money....

Originally posted by esdad71
it is the responsibility of the local government to coordinate any types of
rescue and releif efforts. Then, if it becomes to hard or more assitance is
needed, state help, (fire,police national guard) are generally called.

When Washington called the Gov. of Louisiana and asked if they could
take over and have the National Guard etc. come in ... she said 'I'll
get back to you' and didn't get back to them until the storm hit.
TOTAL INCOMPETENCE on her part. The republican administration
was treading lightly with a democrat gov. and democrat mayor
because they didn't want to be accused of strongarming the
oppositions party. And what they get for it is incompetence
on the other end. They should have said 'screw the treading
lightly' and just taken over. They couldn't have done any worse
than the mayor and gov. did, could they?

Well ... on second thought ... don't answer that.

Last time the levees held then broke, but this
time there will be nothing there and it will fill up like a soup bowl.

That's why we shouldn't be spending any tax money to rebuild.
And I heard on the news that they are again talking about a
levee to withstand a cat 3. Morons.

[edit on 3/2/2006 by FlyersFan]