Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

What does it mean in the Bible to "pass through the fire"?

page: 1
0

log in

join

posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 08:53 AM
link   
I have seen this reference over and over as I read the KJV of the OT. It usually involves children being made to 'pass through the fire' and is not a practice condoned by the Lord. It is a practice usually engaged in by those who worship 'groves and idols', but there is no concrete explanation, so far, of just what it entails or what its purpose or effect is.

It is made clear what the path to salvation is, most recently in Ezekiel 18:25-28.



25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.


I'd say that's pretty clear, wouldn't you? As long as you know what your transgressions are, and either never commit them, or turn away from committing them. I'm pretty sure all people have an inner moral compass that can distinguish between right and wrong. Original sin is the knowledge of good and evil, what sets us apart from the other animals on this planet, right?

But the pass through the fire thing, I don't know. Check out Ezekiel 20:26,31



26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD.

31 For when ye offer your gifts, when ye make your sons to pass through the fire, ye pollute yourselves with all your idols, even unto this day: and shall I be enquired of by you, O house of Israel? As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will not be enquired of by you.


The Lord GOD obviously doesn't like the idols and the sons of Israel 'passing through the fire'. But what does that mean?

I'd sure appreciate some feedback on this.

God bless, and peace be with you.




posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 09:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
I have seen this reference over and over as I read the KJV of the OT. It usually involves children being made to 'pass through the fire' and is not a practice condoned by the Lord. It is a practice usually engaged in by those who worship 'groves and idols', but there is no concrete explanation, so far, of just what it entails or what its purpose or effect is.



It is a burnt sacrifice. The belief goes something like: one's child does not perish in the flames, but is purified by the flames and passes through the fire to Molech (Ammonite idol).



posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 09:46 AM
link   
Ok. So the children don't pass through the fire intact and continue corporeal life, they are an offering, a sacrifice. I got the impression in my earlier readings that all children of the grove and idol worshippers were made to do this, but that isn't possible, seeing as it kills their bodies.

[edit on 1-3-2006 by Icarus Rising]



posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 10:22 AM
link   
It was actually the first born that this was done to. The NIV translation of Ezekiel 20:26 states:


26 I let them become defiled through their gifts—the sacrifice of every firstborn [a] —that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD.'


That footnote after firstborn has the comment, "Or -making every firstborn pass through the fire"

There is a more descriptive passage about this found in Jeremiah 7:31 and Jeremiah 19:4-9.

Jeremiah 7:31

31 They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.


Jeremiah 19:4-9:

4 For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned sacrifices in it to gods that neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. 5 They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind. 6 So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call this place Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter.

7 " 'In this place I will ruin [a] the plans of Judah and Jerusalem. I will make them fall by the sword before their enemies, at the hands of those who seek their lives, and I will give their carcasses as food to the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth. 8 I will devastate this city and make it an object of scorn; all who pass by will be appalled and will scoff because of all its wounds. 9 I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh during the stress of the siege imposed on them by the enemies who seek their lives.'


For checking these things out and cross-referencing scripture, I highly recommend biblegateway.com... . The NASB (New American Standard Bible) translations have tons of footnotes showing reference to other scripture, and, if you prefer, after finding the verse you can change the translation to the KJV or the NKJV. To actually delve into the Hebrew and Greek meanings, there's a great lexicon and translations at studylight.org... , but they only offer one translation (that I've found) which you can compare the Greek to.



posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 10:43 AM
link   
Awesome. Thanks for the great background and reference tools, junglejake. And thanks to you as well, Raphael_UO, for your informative response.

This, then is a key phrase



all that openeth the womb


in that it signifies the first born, whereas I misinterpreted it to mean all who are born.

I'm learning. That's a good thing.



posted on Mar, 2 2006 @ 05:20 PM
link   
A lesson in patience for me. A couple more chapters in Ezekiel and it would have been right there in front of me.




23:37b and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.

and

23:39a For when they had slain their children to their idols


But who's to say I would have recognized it as such without the help given here?


Isaiah 40
31But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.




[edit on 2-3-2006 by Icarus Rising]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 07:41 PM
link   
Satan hates man, plain and simple. The Great Deceiver convienced people to kill their children, they thought their children would go on to Molech basically the god of fire. But Satan's delight was simply dead children of man. Sound impossible? Look at what he has acomplished with "modern medicine" and those convienced to kill their babies in their wombs. God clearly states His disgust in Lev.18:21 (Molech is Satan).



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 06:34 PM
link   
I have been studying history and the bible for a few years and am not a member of any denomination.

TO PASS THROUGH THE FIRE
Jesus baptism is with water just as john did with Jesus
There is also a higher initiation and this is a baptism of fire
walking through the fire is this process
Jesus and John could also perform these initiations but only to the close circle of proven followers in the Essene cult.

THE ONLY WAY TO GOD IS THROUGH JESUS CHRIST
This is what all Christians say when you start to get stuck into the shallow veil which most believers cover themselves with. There are lots of people who go to church, pray, say they are christians but are not actually practising even the ten commandments. They are the hypochrits. In fact they are the idol worshippers.

How many christians worship a man on a cross before GOD. This is a total blasphemy, Jesus was not to be put in the place of GOD at all and most Christians in the west these days worship the mangod more than concentrating on GOD himself. There is not and has never been any reason for GOD to have a helper or doorman. Jesus has come from the same Greek personification of GODS which the Hebrews who administered the Greek empire picked up the idea from the Greek faith.

The west have been sold a dummy my friend to fit the Hebrew faith into our western so called barbarian society on the back of the Roman emporical adventures to control our unruly lot.

Jesus is the personification of the winter solstice in december and john the baptist is born exactly 6 months before jesus on the summer solstice.

We in the west are Pagan and the powers have assimilated the old hebrew myths and folklore with our own to help us accept the bible.


I can prove this to some extent and am writing a book on it.
I have not got all the answers but i will help where i can if anyone is lost.
All i will say to you is be careful when listening to people who cant give you answers and are swallowed up in their blindness.
Son of John



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 07:31 PM
link   
Are you kidding? There is no other religion in the world where anyone has ever died for our sins. Not Budda or Muhamed no one. The Scripture says that no man comes to the Father but by me. That's Jesus. If you don't have Jesus you don't have God. Jesus is the one time blood sacrifice to pay for our sin debt past, present, and future. True. many pagan beliefs were married to christianity. For example, easter bunnies and calendar holidays. That's because Constantine declared the world to be christian. In order to get the people to accept the decree pagan beliefs were adopted and meshed into the mix. The Holy Scriptures have always been right. Satan's plan is to distract from the Word and replace it with instant gratification, pleasure, and lies. Read the Bible and pray for God to show you the way. If you really want to know He will reveal it to you. God promises you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 09:36 PM
link   



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 10:21 PM
link   
Jesus washed the body with water, which makes all of the outside clean for you. It was symbolic in that water does not actually make one acceptable or not acceptable in God's eyes.

The spirit of truth, which lives within you has the power to wash you with fire, which is also symbolic. The fire washes the inside of the cup and refines it and purifies it forever. The clay pot is made with earth and water and is moldable until it is finally fired in an oven and its final form is forever set and usable to the owner of the house.

Comprende?



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 10:15 AM
link   
reply to post by Son of John
 




So what is this fire baptism?

A prophecy of the eschatological separation of the righteous from the unrighteous, and judgment by the Messiah at the end of the age. This fits contemporary expectations of the Messiah, as well as the words "cleanse thoroughly" and "unquenchable fire" contained in the passage. Jesus' parable of the Wheat and the Tares (Matthew 13:30, 41-42) includes this kind of analogy of separation and final judgment.

So John is prophesying of Jesus that he will (1) flood his followers with the Holy Spirit, and (2) judge the unrighteous at the End of the Age.

When Christ returns, he will come in judgment. The first time he came in mercy, but when he returns at the End of the Age it will be with final, terrible judgment. What should disciples learn from this? First, we need to get off the fence and determine whose side we're on. We need to learn a healthy fear of God.

source


God came to earth in the form of man as Jesus, fully man and fully God. The risen Christ is fully God. There is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The supernatural, inexplicable essence of the living God.



posted on Apr, 12 2009 @ 04:20 PM
link   
reply to post by Son of John
 


Son of John, i am very interested in this book you are writing. Is it published yet?

I was looking for the answers to Pass through the fire. i read all this babble from the other users and my heart was sad ... then i found what you wrote and i witnessed with so much of it and I am interested in more of your thoughts on many subjects.


Lisa



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 10:50 PM
link   
reply to post by Icarus Rising
 


In my opinion one meaning is as follows: Some people belive they speak to god, the holy spirit, have the word of god, believe they thave been chosen, are prophets, have special god given gifts ect. But they do not, in fact they speak with the devil or demons whom pretend to be god to these people. These people listen to what they hear believing that they are right and end up calling upon other people for the devil and his demons and give them there "gifts," and / or praying for others to hear the voice of there god, which they belive is the one true living god but it is not. These people end up believing that they are fighting spiritual warfare, as suddenly the person is getting tormented by the devil, they get stuck in hell like conditions, end up fighting for there life, some people wont even survive, they will end up commiting suicide, others will end up having to pray for long lengths of time, just to stay alive, others end up on heavy medication and end up being dignosed with scitzophrenia or a simular type mental desease. The bottom line is people end up bringing the devil to other people thinking they are bringing god to them and before the other person realizes something is wrong it is too late and there in some kind of hell. I myself was a victim of this, someone took me to see a prophet and spiritual healer, whom turned out to be nothing but a woman of sorcery and magic to me. She prophetized all kinds of wonderfull things to me, and told me how I was being called upon. I fought for my life for 2 years afterwards. I felt I was in hell itself, I was tormented, it was undecribably horrible, I didnt know if I was going to survive. When I tried to get help from her she told me she didnt have time to help me, that it was something I would have to go through, that people from all over the world are calling her for help just like me and she couldnt help us because she had her own proplems to deal with. (This woman travels the world like a gypsy woman thinking she is gifting people in Jesus" gifts). Other people do this sort of thing to people on purpose, they will put a curse or spell on you hoping that you will come back to them to have it removed and they will end up making a great deal of money from you, people can put a curse on someone and the person will get caught in a sort of hell. Some people are professional witch doctors, sorcerers, and will make a deal with the devil to kill someone, In many cases the person will again be put through the fire "hell" before there life is taken. I know of many biblical reference examples but this is enough for now. It is important in my opinion for people to understand the commandments, laws, statutes, the gospels that were inspired by God and not just listen to eveverything they hear in there head , or believe everything they hear and see, Satan and his kingdom masquarade as humans, angels of light ect pretending and tricking people, this is one reason why God told the Isrealies to stay away from, divination, magic, sorcery, not to listen to prophets whom prophetised falsley ect.

People also need to realise how little God actually spoke to people, and stop thinking everything they hear is him or his Angels telling it to them. In my opinion it is an obomination to him, as throughout the scriptures, he rarely spoke and when he did it was to one prophet out of a whole nation of people. There are even stories in the scriptures where God himself asked his angels or spirits to pretend to be him, as he was angry with a certain people.



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 05:21 PM
link   
In The Bible, fire represents the judgment of God. The lake of fire, the bad tree being tossed into the fire, and Paul speaks about being tried by the fire of God, so in this case, to "make it pass the fire" would probably mean making it pass God's judgment. Just a guess...






top topics



 
0

log in

join