1.300 Iraqis Killed in Past Week

Originally posted by esdad71

Originally posted by Souljah

Care to remember, how the US influence on Iraq in the 70s and 80s HELPED to bring the balance of power to Sunni side, when they supported Saddam so that they could stop the Islamic Revolution in Iran?

I would think this would be because of Shia Iran and we took the lesser of 2 evils. Should we have stepped back and let them kill each other on a grander scal than they did? Saddam betrayed the trust of the US, and he paid for it eventually. This was 30 years ago though....

Took the lesser of 2 evils? More like manipulated BOTH sides, as the US govt installed both Saddam and the Shia. And guess what? The US govt used TERROR ATTACKS to install the Shia! That's right, back in the early 50s. Funny how Mossadegh was DEMOCRATICALLY elected and pro-west at that time. But, of course, he was evil because he didn't want to give up all the oil, so they used terror attacks to remove him and install the Shia.

Saddam...do I really need to explain that we put him into power?

Gee do all these people really prefer socialism and communism?

The Iraqi's biggest problems are the influence of all the outside forces desperate to see the US fail in its mission there.

Many of these outsiders are rivals to the US.

Saddam put himself in power and killed all who opposed him the day he declared himself leader. Are you going to tell me it was the CIA who PUT him in charge? No, but he was part of the Baath party that was advised by the CIA in certain matters to overthrow a pro-communsit gov't.

The CIA backed the Baath party because Qassim was pro-Russian in the late 50's. The Baath party took control in the 60's. We were assisting a country to help quell communism at that time, remember that was a big fear then. We gave Iraq a chance, and Hussien turned it into a dictatorship after he recieved power from his relative who was in charge in the late 70's. We did not tell him what to do, he became drunk with power.

Affiliation and coincidence surround the Baath party, Saddam and the CIA.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Gee do all these people really prefer socialism and communism?

Nope.

The Iraqi's biggest problems are the influence of all the outside forces desperate to see the US fail in its mission there.

Iraq's biggest problem is a US invasion and occupation force which were not staged to create stability but instability. The US eeconomy floats partly on high oil prices so just watch how things get worse and worse in Iraq as the US econ keeps going to hell.

Many of these outsiders are rivals to the US.

And most never a got a choice in the matter. A empire without enemies wont be one for any duration of time.

Stellar

Originally posted by esdad71
Saddam put himself in power and killed all who opposed him the day he declared himself leader. Are you going to tell me it was the CIA who PUT him in charge? No, but he was part of the Baath party that was advised by the CIA in certain matters to overthrow a pro-communsit gov't.

Pro communist government? Please explain what exactly that government wanted to do to deserve the label in question,

The CIA backed the Baath party because Qassim was pro-Russian in the late 50's. The Baath party took control in the 60's. We were assisting a country to help quell communism at that time, remember that was a big fear then.

Yeah we remember how the US used the communism excuse to stage coup's and wars all around the world. The rest of the world seems to have longer memmories than most Americans. And what does "quelling" communism entail if people CHOOSE it? Why not let the evil communist leaders they pick kill them instead? One imagines that wont take long considering the evil that is communism.

We gave Iraq a chance, and Hussien turned it into a dictatorship after he recieved power from his relative who was in charge in the late 70's. We did not tell him what to do, he became drunk with power.

Saddam turned Iraq into exactly what the US wanted ( a dictatorship which they can order around) Drunk with power? Talk about propaganda induced rambling.

Affiliation and coincidence surround the Baath party, Saddam and the CIA. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Apparently hindsight is no great help as you still have no idea what really happened.

Stellar

Originally posted by esdad71
Saddam put himself in power and killed all who opposed him the day he declared himself leader. Are you going to tell me it was the CIA who PUT him in charge? No, but he was part of the Baath party that was advised by the CIA in certain matters to overthrow a pro-communsit gov't.

The CIA backed the Baath party because Qassim was pro-Russian in the late 50's. The Baath party took control in the 60's. We were assisting a country to help quell communism at that time, remember that was a big fear then. We gave Iraq a chance, and Hussien turned it into a dictatorship after he recieved power from his relative who was in charge in the late 70's. We did not tell him what to do, he became drunk with power.

Affiliation and coincidence surround the Baath party, Saddam and the CIA.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

Coincidence?

Perhaps for You.

Saddam key in early CIA plot

While many have thought that Saddam first became involved with U.S. intelligence agencies at the start of the September 1980 Iran-Iraq war, his first contacts with U.S. officials date back to 1959, when he was part of a CIA-authorized six-man squad tasked with assassinating then Iraqi Prime Minister Gen. Abd al-Karim Qasim.

In July 1958, Qasim had overthrown the Iraqi monarchy in what one former U.S. diplomat, who asked not to be identified, described as "a horrible orgy of bloodshed."

According to current and former U.S. officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, Iraq was then regarded as a key buffer and strategic asset in the Cold War with the Soviet Union. For example, in the mid-1950s, Iraq was quick to join the anti-Soviet Baghdad Pact which was to defend the region and whose members included Turkey, Britain, Iran and Pakistan.

Regime Change: How the CIA put Saddam's Party in Power

Another very good example of a CIA-organized regime change was a coup in 1963 that employed political assassination, mass imprisonment, torture and murder. This was the military coup that first brought Saddam Hussein's beloved Ba'ath Party to power in Iraq. At the time, Richard Helms was Director for Plans at the CIA. That is the top CIA position responsible for covert actions, like organizing coups. Helms served in that capacity until 1966, when he was made Director.

n 1959, there was a failed assassination attempt on Qasim. The failed assassin was none other than a young Saddam Hussein. In 1963, a CIA-organized coup did successfully assassinate Qasim and Saddam's Ba'ath Party came to power for the first time. Saddam returned from exile in Egypt and took up the key post as head of Iraq's secret service. The CIA then provided the new pliant, Iraqi regime with the names of thousands of communists, and other leftist activists and organizers. Thousands of these supporters of Qasim and his policies were soon dead in a rampage of mass murder carried out by the CIA's close friends in Iraq.

A Tyrant 40 Years in the Making

As its instrument the C.I.A. had chosen the authoritarian and anti-Communist Baath Party, in 1963 still a relatively small political faction influential in the Iraqi Army. According to the former Baathist leader Hani Fkaiki, among party members colluding with the C.I.A. in 1962 and 1963 was Saddam Hussein, then a 25-year-old who had fled to Cairo after taking part in a failed assassination of Kassem in 1958.

According to Western scholars, as well as Iraqi refugees and a British human rights organization, the 1963 coup was accompanied by a bloodbath. Using lists of suspected Communists and other leftists provided by the C.I.A., the Baathists systematically murdered untold numbers of Iraq's educated elite -- killings in which Saddam Hussein himself is said to have participated. No one knows the exact toll, but accounts agree that the victims included hundreds of doctors, teachers, technicians, lawyers and other professionals as well as military and political figures.

And that is not all of the Articles, which Pop-Up, when you type the Right 3 Words in Google!

Cheers!



[edit on 2/3/06 by Souljah]

To be honuest souljah you still havent answered my question or is it just being ignored to continue posting against the war?

Originally posted by Souljah
I have to say, that Mister Robert Frisk, always presents a Situation from Middle East in a very unique way, that makes you ask yourself, what is REALLY going on in Iraq and who is really in Charge.

The real reason this current strife, be it civil war ( or whatever Mister Robert Frisk wants to call it ) is an attempt to force the shiite's to drop Ibrahim al-Jaafari their choice for PM:

On Wednesday, leaders of three parties decided to ask the main Shiite bloc to withdraw al-Jaafari's nomination for prime minister and put forward another candidate. "The Kurdish and the Sunni groups think that he (Jaafari) is not appropriate and they cannot form a cabinet with him as he is not neutral," Mahmud Othman, a senior Iraqi parliamentarian told AFP on Thursday.
www.albawaba.com...

The continued violence is a way to bolster their request by illustrating that Jafaari cannot restore calm.

Well i am glad to see someone went and god the information i should have posted. Sometimes i just lack the interest/energy to do what should be done....

Thanks for the links Souljah.



Stellar

Expert on Iraq: 'We're In a Civil War'

As Pentagon generals offered optimistic assessments that the sectarian violence in Iraq had dissipated this weekend, other military experts told ABC News that Sunni and Shiite groups in Iraq already are engaged in a civil war, and that the Iraqi government and U.S. military had better accept that fact and adapt accordingly.

"We're in a civil war now; it's just that not everybody's joined in," said retired Army Maj. Gen. William L. Nash, a former military commander in Bosnia-Herzegovina. "The failure to understand that the civil war is already taking place, just not necessarily at the maximum level, means that our counter measures are inadequate and therefore dangerous to our long-term interest.

"It's our failure to understand reality that has caused us to be late throughout this experience of the last three years in Iraq," added Nash, who is an ABC News consultant.

It looks like according to some Experts, Iraq already IS in a Civil War.

Yet Another Retired US General told Fox News exactly the Opposite:

"I think that the Iraqi people — Kurds, Shia, Sunni — walked up to the abyss, took the look in, didn't like what they saw, have pulled together, have pulled back from violence, and are working together to keep things calm and to find the right mix for their own government."

Well, what did you Expect, when coming from Faux News.

Originally posted by Souljah
Well, what did you Expect, when coming from Faux News.

Well gee, I guess you listen only to the experts that confirms or agree with you, right? And not the other experts who has a different view.

Originally posted by deltaboy
Well gee, I guess you listen only to the experts that confirms or agree with you, right? And not the other experts who has a different view.

Well you don't in fact have to listen only to the people you want to. The idea is to listen to everyone and then determine who is lying and who is not based on which statements contradicts what you have discovered so far. To believe everything you hear is just as pointless as believing nothing you hear and in the end you will have to build up the knowledge to decide who to believe and who not to believe.

Stellar

Originally posted by deltaboy
Well gee, I guess you listen only to the experts that confirms or agree with you, right? And not the other experts who has a different view.

Well, lets check out the Latest NEWS from Iraq, shall we?

Gunmen kidnap at least 50 at Iraq security firm

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Gunmen in camouflage uniforms stormed the offices of a private Iraqi security company and kidnapped as many as 50 employees, police said Wednesday, as U.S. and Iraqi patrols discovered 24 bodies in various parts of the capital.

24 Bodies Found Amid More Violence in Iraq

American and Iraqi patrols discovered 24 bodies in various parts of the capital, police said. The latest violence came amid a break in the political stalemate that had threatened the creation of unity government that Washington hopes can stabilize Iraq so that foreign forces can start going home.

Yes - what a Peacefull Iraq.

Not at all looking like a Civil War - Nope.

Now lets see what mister Rumsfeld has to say about this:

Rumsfeld sees potential for Iraq civil war

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said on Tuesday there has always been a risk Iraq could plunge into civil war but he accused the news media of exaggerating the gravity of the current situation.

Rumsfeld: Situation in Iraq 'exaggerated' by media

U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld acknowledged Tuesday the potential for civil war in Iraq but slammed the media for "exaggerated" reports about the security situation following recent violence between religious factions.

Now what the hell is he trying to tell us?

Well, to me it looks like a Civil War - but I guess thats just the media exaggeration, right?

US envoy: Iraq war opened 'Pandora's box,' civil war threat

The 2003 invasion of Iraq that toppled dictator Saddam Hussein opened a 'Pandora's box' of ethnic and sectarian strife that has created the threat of civil war, the US ambassador to Iraq said in an interview published Tuesday.

Right.

Hey - and ain't it Weird, that you find TWO British AGENTS shooting at Iraqi Police and Civilans - AGAIN?

Yep - apparently the Iraqi police "tried to stop a group of British intelligence officers in two cars wearing civilian clothes" - and then the two Officers opened Fire, wounding 4 people.

They said:

We are British Intelligence.

Then they tried to use The Force by saying - "We don't need to show you any identifications; we may move along!".

But I guess they failed.

So they started shooting at the Iraqi Police.

Clever.

Iraqis accuse British of shooting police, civilians

An Iraqi security official has accused British soldiers of shooting and wounding four Iraqis, among them police officers, in the southern port city of Basra.

The incident took place late yesterday when police "tried to stop a group of British intelligence officers in two cars wearing civilian clothes", the city council leader responsible for security matters, Hakim al-Mayahi said.

"They said 'We are British intelligence', but provided no identification," he said, adding that the cars drove off.

And that is not the END of the "Exaggerations":

Reuters - Developments in Iraq, March 8

MOSUL - Hospital and police sources said they received five bodies shot dead by U.S. forces in Mosul, 390 km (240 miles) north of Baghdad. No details of the incident were available. The U.S. military said it was checking the report.

BAGHDAD - Gunmen attacked the house of Interior Minister advisor Major General Hikmat Moussa Salman in western Baghdad. Police said two of his bodyguards were killed and two wounded.

BAGHDAD - Four civilians were wounded when a car bomb exploded near a U.S. patrol in the western part of Baghdad, police said.

BAGHDAD - Two Interior Ministry personnel were killed and five wounded when a roadside bomb went off near minister of interior's convoy in eastern Baghdad, an Interior Ministry official said.

TAL AFAR - A U.S. soldier was killed and four others wounded on Tuesday when a roadside bomb went off near their patrol in Tal Afar northwest of Mosul, 390 km (240 miles) north of Baghdad, U.S. military said in a statement.

BAQUBA - Iraqi army and police arrested 19 suspects in raids in Baquba, 65 km (40 miles) north of Baghdad, police said.

BAGHDAD - The bodies of 18 men, bound and blindfolded, were found on Tuesday night in a minibus in western Baghdad, an Interior Ministry spokesman said.

FALLUJA - Four civilians were killed and two wounded when a roadside bomb exploded in a main road in Falluja, police said.

BAGHDAD - Two policemen were killed and six civilians and two policemen wounded when a roadside bomb went off near a police patrol in central Baghdad, police said.

BAGHDAD - The bodies of two people were found, bound and blindfolded, after they were shot dead in eastern Baghdad, police said.

Developments in Iraq, March 7

Originally posted by deltaboy
Well gee, I guess you listen only to the experts that confirms or agree with you, right? And not the other experts who has a different view.

Or experts who change their view....

NeoCon allies desert Bush over Iraq
These are the right-wing intellectuals who demanded George Bush invade Iraq. Now they admit they got it wrong. Are you listening, Mr President?

news.independent.co.uk

I find this disturbing from William Buckley Jr:

'One can't doubt the objective in Iraq has failed ... Iraqi animosities have proved uncontainable by an army of 130,000 Americans. Different plans have to be made. And the kernel here is the acknowledgement of defeat.'

This seems quite amazing to me. Were these guys as staunchly for the war as this article makes out?