What are your thoughts on materialism?is it an illusion?

In hindu scriptures it says the material world we are in is maya or illusion,do you feel soemtimes that this reality we are in is an illusion?

Hi Kanyachan
Yes it does, especially the more time I spend with My Heavely Father, the more this place really seems to be just that! But then when I see all the Pain & Suffering, Anger & Hate - I see how real this place really is! So my prayers are fixed on ending their pain & suffering & our Love will help to ease their Anger & Hate!
But this isn't really our home to begin with, were just here to learn what was needed, in order to be Rulers & Priest & Sit on Thrones & Judge the Nations the Word says, so yes, it does feel like an illusion, because we long to be where we once were!
Also the closer we get to this, the more yes it will feel like an illusion! My view of course!
Nice Thread! Angel

Very much an illusion. An illusion we, as humans, seem easy to buy into. All humans, in some way or another, are materialistic. As much as I am against it, I have to admit that even I have some materialistic tendencies. That is why it continues and thrives. It's always about the car, clothes, bling, etc... It's never about the person themselves. That's why I think we are soooo wrapped up with Hollywood and it's celebrities.

I think Madonna said it best (even many years ago) "cause we are living in a material world, and I am a material girl."

I prefer to think it's all real. Waking life, dreams, spirit connection, intuition... all the realms we experience are very 'real' to me. They're just different facets of the same experience.

It's when we pick one as real and deny the others as illusion that we get sidetracked and confused. They're all real.

That's how I see it, anyway.

Materialism is very real. The illusion is in the perception that materialism represents the individuals place in society/life.

Lines have to be drawn to define the parameters of who we are (usually on a subconscience level). Duality in a sense. We cant "be this" unless we're "not that" . Materialism, more so than not these days, is the tool used to measure this.

Peace

If it is an illusion, why can't we change things on the fly? Why does reality happen, as cold hard and real as it seems?
I should be able to see throught the illusion, but I don't.
If I throw a brick at a wall, either the brick, the wall, or both breaks, that ain't no illusion.
What it all boils down to is, what is an illusion?

It's perceived to be there, but it's not?
Oh, but it is there!

I need a new illusion! This one is too real!

I think it's important to define materialism as used in this context.

Materialism
1 a : a theory that physical matter is the only or fundamental reality and that all being and processes and phenomena can be explained as manifestations or results of matter.
...
2 : a preoccupation with or stress upon material rather than intellectual or spiritual things

I believe the OP was talking about meaning #1. Not how much your Hi Def TV costs, how many DVD players you have and how new and expensive your car is.

If the material world is an illusion, it is a well-organized illusion...organized by our brain and perception.

Think of a stone...one small enough to hold in your hand, grasshopper. (couldn't resist)

Close your eyes and visualize this stone...is it light gray? Does it have striations, like layers? What is it's shape? Is it smooth like it rolled endlessly on a seashore or washed in a fast creek? What is its weight?

As you consider all these descriptive qualities of the stone, you are, in fact, creating the stone in your mind. The mental image, not based in reality, is constructed through your perception by the memories you have experienced by handling stones in the material world. It is a ghost of a stone, existing only in your mind, but hold onto that idea of the mind-made stone.

Now, if you were to pick up a stone in the material world, you would be able to tell what it looks and feels like without using your mind, right? All of the features of the stone existed prior to you viewing it, (or, so it would seem).

So, what is the difference between the two...in reality?

from The Theory of Knowledge Louis J Pojman;

Part VII A Priori Knowledge W V Quine:

As an empiracist I continue to think of the conceptual scheme of science as a tool, ultimately, for predicting future experience in the light of past experience. Physical objects are conceptually imported into the situation as convenient intermediates- not by definition in terms of exerience, but simply as posits compareable, epistomologically, to the gods of Homer. For my part I do, qua lay physicist, believe in physical objects and not in Homers gods; and I consider it a scientific error to believe otherwise. But in point of epistemological footing the physical objects and the gods differ only in degree and not in kind. Both sorts of entities enter our conception only as cultural posits. The myth of physical objects is epistemologically superior to most in that it has proved more efficacious than other myths as a device for working a manageable structure into the flux of experience.

[bolding mine]

Laymans explanation? The stone you hold in your hand differs only from the stone in your mind because it is convenient for you to think so. To question the reality of the stone in your hand is too difficult for us to manage. And, vice versa, the stone in your mind cannot be real because you do not wish it to be real.
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[edit on 28-2-2006 by masqua]

One can think of it this way, one can gain all the material wealth, but when you die, one thing for sure that has been discovered, one cannot take their riches with them!
Look at the Egyptians for instance, when they died, they buried as much of their wealth with them in the hopes, they would have their riches on the other side!
We proved them wrong on that, when our archeologist opened their tombs they had a hefty reward for doing so!
For the Egyptians yep, it proved it was an illusion!
Angel

I like to think its an illusion but I can't be certain. If it is an illusion then we are so trapped in it that we're doomed never to escape so it might as well be real. Define reality - now compare that definition to that of someone we call 'insane'. Their reality is just as real to them as yours is to you, maybe more - so I guess we can say reality is relative and those who experience it at the ends of the bell curve require medication and nice white jackets to squeeze them in towards the median.
Maybe we ignore the stuff that doesn't fit. Ever wonder where birds go at night? I'm told they nest in trees but I don't see nearly enough nests to hold all those I see on my front yard during the day. Do they hide in hedges and evergreens? Not in my yard. Do we ignore this, call me delusional or blow this off saying that somebody has it figured out, or can I trust my senses and my question and come to another conclusion or possibility? Maybe the birds dissappear, change cimensions, turn into rocks - hell it could be anything.
The point is, how many questions do we ignore that we walk past every day - ignoring the illusions by the millions.

Of course, materiality is an illusion. And materialism is, well... the dishonest system of value that lures millions of people into lies everyday, especially into devoting their lives to meaningless, unsignificant and unecessary crap.

The only "reality" that I'm aware of is the forces that drive this world, and the resulting evils that divides and isolates us from each other and from having power on our lives.

Until I see a U-haul behind the hearse, which will someday be here, if you cannot take it with you, it should go.
We own nothing, we are just borrowing as those before and those hence.

If everyone had fair and equal access to Material things then I don't see the problem.

The very computer you are typing on is a material possesion and you would be amazed how many buddhist and hippy websites there are out there who preach non-materialism on the internet.

The problem is not the material items, trinkets, Jewels, televisions, Leer Jets or country mansions it's the attitude and mind set of the people who own them.

At the last count there where 691 Billionaires in the world and 7.7 Million Millionaires and still there are children in the world who don't eat for days and families that cannot afford basic medicines.

The fact of the matter is that power and wealth corrupt people, not all by any means but most are consumed by the lifestyle, benefits and most of all , POWER that their vast funds afford them and most of those who do give do so out of guilt rather than selflessness.

I mean we are pretty sick puppies as a species really. A rapper can dance around on a video wearing 1 million dollars in gold chains and at the same somewhere in the world a few kids starve to death and do you know when theose lunatic Jehovas Witnesses bleet on about how the end of the world is nigh and judgement day is coming I kind of see where they are coming from.

Here lies human race, killed by Capitalism, Greed and Corruption.

How did the topic migrate from questioning reality and onto the old euphemism of; 'you can't take it with you when you die'?

The ownership of material objects is a heck of a jump from questioning the reality of those same objects.

Material girl...a Madonna song
Material...liquids, solids, gas (etc?)
.

"Reality is just an illusion; albeit a very persistent one." - Albert Einstein

The Hindu and Buddhist mystics often speak of the phenomenal world as "maya" or "illusion". However, by this they don't mean that the world we live in is not real. They just mean that it is transistory, in constant flux, and can't be fixed. The Buddhists take this further than the Hindus by claiming that the same thing applies to the conception of "Self", which gives rise to their doctrine of "Anatman", or "No Self".

Originally posted by Kanyachan
In hindu scriptures it says the material world we are in is maya or illusion,do you feel soemtimes that this reality we are in is an illusion?

You should read The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra.

Editorial Reviews

Amazon.com
First published in 1975, The Tao of Physics rode the wave of fascination in exotic East Asian philosophies. Decades later, it still stands up to scrutiny, explicating not only Eastern philosophies but also how modern physics forces us into conceptions that have remarkable parallels. Covering over 3,000 years of widely divergent traditions across Asia, Capra can't help but blur lines in his generalizations. But the big picture is enough to see the value in them of experiential knowledge, the limits of objectivity, the absence of foundational matter, the interrelation of all things and events, and the fact that process is primary, not things. Capra finds the same notions in modern physics. Those approaching Eastern thought from a background of Western science will find reliable introductions here to Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism and learn how commonalities among these systems of thought can offer a sort of philosophical underpinning for modern science. And those approaching modern physics from a background in Eastern mysticism will find precise yet comprehensible descriptions of a Western science that may reinvigorate a hope in the positive potential of scientific knowledge. Whatever your background, The Tao of Physics is a brilliant essay on the meeting of East and West, and on the invaluable possibilities that such a union promises. --Brian Bruya

Amazon.com

[edit on 2006/3/1 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by Masonic Light
"Reality is just an illusion; albeit a very persistent one." - Albert Einstein

An exceptional quote...and relevant, especially coming from such an esteemed scientist, even if he is an avowed Pantheist. (inside joke)

Nice to see you involved in this thread, ML...your intelligent comments have my utmost respect and I hope you can add more to this excellent topic.

Grady...thanks for the links, I'll be checking them out.
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The Tao of Physics was an absolutely riveting read. Paul Davies did a couple of good books too, "The Mind of God" and "God and the New Physics". Steven Strogatz presents some interesting stuff in, "Synch" and another good read, although you have to weed out some of the weirder stuff , is, "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot who extrapolates Bohm's stuff to some interesting, although lofty at times, heights.

Look, it cannot be seen - it is beyond form.
Listen, it cannot be heard - it is beyond sound.
Grasp, it cannot be held - it is intangible.
These three are indefinable;
Therefore they are joined in one.
From above it is not bright;
From below it is not dark:
An unbroken thread beyond description.
It returns to nothingness.
The form of the formless, the image of the imageless, it is called indefinable and beyond imagination.
Stand before it and there is no beginning.
Follow it and there is no end.

Master Lao Tse wrote that about 2600 years ago.

Many philosophers, intellectuals and prophets have tried to coin this very idea, but this man has said it in the finest way. And this is basically what Jesus Christ was teaching about... taking distance from the things of this world, and cherishing the treasure inside of you rather than seeking material "success", power and fame, as these are all illusions of freedom and self-importance.



[edit on 2/3/06 by Echtelion]