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EPA OK’d plan to dump nerve agent into Delaware

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posted on Mar, 2 2006 @ 11:54 PM
November 2004 - FACT SHEET
DuPont Chambers Works

Google Map: Deepwater, NJ

The DuPont Chambers Works site is a 700-acre active chemical plant

Subsurface contamination exists at depths greater than 3 meters.

Due to the high water table, contamination below the water line could not be quantified.

The major on-site contaminant is U-238, both in soil and water samples.

F Corral - Uranium is present; remediation is necessary.

Bldg #845 - Subsurface uranium contamination may also exist in an area approx 130’ x 150’ under the building foundation

East Area / East Burial Area – The East Burial Area is approximately 350’ x 85’. Uranium from the Manhattan project and carbon-14 not related to the Manhattan project are known to be present.

Saint Michael, Prince of the heavenly Militia, come to us! Be our protection against wickedness. O God Almighty, we implore you to send us Saint Michael, that he may rescue us in our adversity. Cast into Hell Satan and all the other evil spirits who prowl throughout the world, seeking the ruin of souls. Aauuummmmmm.


Sri Oracle

posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 06:42 PM
A little anxiety seems to be in order here. I read everyone's posts and see where this stuff is supposed to be harmless, but harmless is one of those relative words. Is it 100% harmless to both humans and all other creatures? Is it harmless relative to pure water? At what rate of discharge into the river can we be assured the concoction will be thoroughly mixed with river water and not hang together as a caustic plume all the way out to sea? What happens to it when chlorine gets mixed into it? I agree with the others here, this plan makes me a little nervous. Mostly, I'll freely admit because I'm ignorant of the chemistry involved and simply don't trust others to do things right.

[edit on 3-3-2006 by Astronomer68]

posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 10:55 AM
Just found this:

US rivers and river basins already are contaminated with a range of chemicals like pesticides and herbicides. The potential effects of chemical combinations are unknown but scientists say such research should be a priority.

A large number of U.S. rivers and streams are contaminated with pesticides and herbicides, government scientists have found.

The chemicals are linked to cancer, birth defects and neurological disorders but the concentration of the contaminants is not likely to have an impact on people, concluded the report, released Friday. ...Agricultural streams most often showed three herbicides used primarily on farms - atrazine, metolachlor, and cyanazine- in concentrations that may affect aquatic life, the report said. ...Three herbicides commonly sprayed in cities - simazine, prometon, and tebuthiuron - were found in urban streams. ...Most stream samples and about half of the well samples contained two or more pesticides.

The potential effects of the combinations are not well understood, but the results show such research should be a priority, said Robert Gilliom, the study's senior author.

U.S. streams contaminated with pesticides: report

[edit on 4-3-2006 by soficrow]

posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 11:11 AM
OMGG. Are they for real? This is a joke isn't it?

They cannot seriously think about a river as a dumping ground for VX surley? Oh, and as for chemical bonding happening when the remenants of the VX hit phosphate based chemicals is almost a dead cert...

Ok a quick biology lesson. At the cellular level, Tri - phosphates are taken into the cell, ONE phospahte molecule is used by the mitochondria to produce energy, and the remaining TWO molecules are released through the cell membrane to be disposed of as waste product.

This is why this stuffs so damn toxic - organo phosphates will make you dead real quick due to the bodies absorbtion of it is so rapid. hence why it is used in nerve agents - It overwhelms the body because of the very essence of the absorbtion, and the body dies trying to use it! it actually does a mini self destruct! Add a phsophate based nerve agent such as VX to the mix, and people, you do not ever want to drink that damn water ever again. The mind boggles over how they can say this is safe practise!!!!!

Read this about VX. you will not be happy its in your drinking water at all!!!!

The CDC says IT DOES NOT MIX WELL WITH WATER!! read the PDF file they have released...omg your all so going to regret this one..

[edit on 4-3-2006 by MadGreebo]

posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 07:49 PM
People exposed to a low or moderate dose of VX by inhalation, ingestion (swallowing), or skin absorption may experience some or all of the following symptoms within seconds to hours of exposure:

* Runny nose
* Watery eyes
* Small, pinpoint pupils
* Eye pain
* Blurred vision
* Cough
* Chest tightness
* Rapid breathing
* Diarrhea
* Increased urination
* Confusion
* Drowsiness
* Weakness
* Headache
* Nausea, vomiting, and/or abdominal pain
* Slow or fast heart rate
* Abnormally low or high blood pressure

Are you having trouble controlling urination? Talk to your doctor... you may need imipramine. Nobody has to know about your problem.

Runny nose, watery eyes, cough? Take NyQuil just before you go to sleep and DayQuil to keep you going at work. New Formula Pseudoephederine Free NyQuil multi-symptom formula relieves your major cold symptoms

Upset stomach, diarrhea? Try Kaopectate Anti-Diarrheal Caplets! Easy to swallow caplets provide effective diarrhea relief and settles an upset stomach.

High Blood pressure? Ask your doctor about Sectral. Get hypertension under control once and for all!

Big Brother makes the poison
Big Brother makes the remedy

Still *confused*? Maybe its the VX in your drinking water.


-Sri Oracle

[edit on 4-3-2006 by Sri Oracle]

posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 08:37 PM
ITS NOT VX it is just some of the byproducts. stop spreading fear and ignorance with discussions about just dumping it in the river! ARE YOU SAYING THE GOVERMENT IS KILLING THERE OWN PEOPLE!!! you better have facts to back that up b/c with out facts of this its just slander and insulting.

posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 10:05 PM
OK you dounbt theres a worry about VX in the water? THEY say there will be small amounts of VX in the water not me or any others that are worried. It may be a small amount but it will mix with other phosphate based chemicals and it will be in the stuff you are going to drink, its that simple. If it kills people or makes them ill then yes, it is the Goverments fault. They are not concerned that vx is going into the water, so does that not make you worried in the slightest??

Ok you say its the by product thats going into the water do you?? ok, so when you read the part that some vx will go into the water come back and start again...

posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 10:29 PM

Originally posted by engenerQ

hrmmm.... yep.

To divide and rule; it is their only plan.

Sri Oracle

posted on Mar, 5 2006 @ 01:27 AM
ok first nothign will combine in the water second where do you get it will combine with pospates? next there is no VX in the water even if there was it wouldent last longer then a day so how can there be VX in all the water it breaks down in the water. no im not the slitest bit concerned i even live by where there storeing it not VXH not the by products but the real stuff and i couldent be more at ease.
ok they will rule? there the goverment they alredy rule..... and where is your PROOF i have proof of what im saying where is yours that the goverment will b profiting from the actions of this.

posted on Mar, 5 2006 @ 08:31 AM

Originally posted by engenerQ

...where is your PROOF i have proof of what im saying where is yours that the goverment will b profiting from the actions of this.

There are numerous references posted above regarding the chemistry and biology. You just need to click on the links.

As far as profiting - it's a heck of lot cheaper to just dump chemicals and poisons into the waterways than to pay for proper treatment. Cutting costs means more profits.

[edit on 5-3-2006 by soficrow]

posted on Mar, 5 2006 @ 10:34 AM
Anyone interested in actually educating themselves on the subject should read the IPAC technical report;
Critical Evaluation of Proven Chemical Weapons Destruction Technologies (pdf)

The report is a wealth of information covering the concepts behind the destruction methods, and if read closely the people (groups) behind the promotion of these methods.

posted on Mar, 5 2006 @ 12:37 PM
If you actually took the time to read the above link, you may have noted that it is very detailed until it gets to the point of "further" process that DuPont will do to the hazardous waste.

Can anyone provide detailed information on what DuPont will do with the 4 million gallons of caustic liquid to "further" process it?

How about you EQ? You say you have proof there will be no VX in the water. How about sending us links to DuPont's actual process, the studies and reviews thereof?

posted on Mar, 5 2006 @ 08:36 PM
Per the report, I belive "further processing" referrers to either biomass reaction, whereby a micro-organism breaks down the hydrosylate into inert gasses. Though it the report does state that this is not entirely effective. (curious what species of micro organism) anyway... from there to UV treatment then O3 treatment. I am pulling this from pdf pages 94-104.

Keywords to acquaint oneself with for further discussion:

Supercritical Water Oxidization (SCWO)
Biodegredation/bioreactor/biomass (BMASS)
Advanced Oxidation Processes (AOP) which includes UV, 03 (ozone), and peroxide
Stabilization/solidification/cementious stablization (Rock formation)

My experience on subject:

Anerobic biomass is commonly used in China to deal with household sewage. I am planning a reactor for my home in the Ozarks. Basically instead of a septic tank you bottle up all your poo in a 12' long 2' diameter tube kept on a 20 degree slope. Methane bubbles to the top and a gelatanous goo can be wept from the bottom monthly. The goo is "clean" and excellent fertilizer. Although my research to date has been processing human/animal excrement... not VX.

I have experience growing shrimp in a closed hydroponic system that used UV to keep the water clean. You are essentially using "sun light" to burn micro organism. Again... not sure about VX.

I also have experience creating 03 using electricity applied to a cathode and an anode (two pieces of wire mesh) seperated by a piece of glass. I enclosed the whole thing in a small box and put an exhaust fan on it. I found that by timing the exhaust (allowing build up), small bursts of dense ozone provided best oxidation.

I would certainly agree with IUPAC that AOP technologies are a end of the chain "polishing" step... certainly not primary filtration techology.

Iupac is a great link. Suggested reading. Discussion?

Sri Oracle

posted on Mar, 5 2006 @ 10:07 PM
Hi Sir O,

Thanks for the feedback.

I guess that I am a bit confused, because the only thing I saw listed for the Bioreactors was mustard gas hydrolysate for Aberdeen, Maryland not VX.

I agree that page 94 begins to detail the effluent stream for liquid, and even names SWCO as the chosen method for Newport. However, I believe I see a discrepancy with their statements, probably due to the age of the article.

18. (pg 95)
The aqueous products from the SCWO reactor, including entrained solids, are then fed to the evaporation unit, where the aqueous products from the SCWO reactor, including entrained solids, are then fed to the evaporation unit, where the mixture is heated to distill excess water. At this point, the salts that have crystallized from solution are filtered and packaged for disposal in a secure landfill. A large portion of the water distilled from the SCWO effluent is recycled back to the process.

We know that they are not sending the salts to a landfill, they are sending the the waste to DuPont in New Jersey. Also, if the water is being distilled and recycled back into the process where is this 4 million gallons of waste coming from, and what is DuPont going to do to it before it dumps it into the Delaware river?

I cant find any information on how DuPont is going to "further" process the VX. Are they going to use bioreactors? If so what is the microorganisms will they will use? What will they do with all the sludge from this process? What landfill is it going to?

Are they going to treat 4 million gallons of waste with OAV/UV? Where is the documentation for DuPonts process? Do they have that equipment at the N.J facility? etc.

EQ says he has proof there will be no VX in the water, so I was hoping that he or someone would post some hard data on this part of the issue.

What exactly is DuPont going to do to the VX hydrolysate prior to dumping it into the river? (we know that it will have 40 - 80 ppb VX in the hydrolysate from the Aug. 2003 Chemical eng. article) What controls and oversight committees are in place to prevent accident/abuse? Who is monitoring the river water and its bio enviournment for adverse reactions?

Lots of questions remain unanswered.......Anybody have links to the answers?

posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 04:42 PM
the proof is it will alredy be broken down in to VXH b4 it will even leave indiana from there it will b further processed in to some salts and now the EPA has droped there oposistion saying the dupont will meet all regulations on the partial dump...the scarry part is only 11% has been distroyed. but here are a cupple sorces and if you still need more proof my other posts decribe why you shouldent fret about this.

while there are conspiracys this is not one of them it is chemicly proven it will do no harm. before you can claim the goverment is trying to kill its people or there just dumping the agent straight in to the water you must have the facts. the goverment has held open discussions and put this off many times to make shure it will be safe to procede and just look at it chemicly it will be fine.

posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 09:37 PM
"In 1997, the United States ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention treaty, which by June 2003 had been signed by 153 nations. The treaty prohibits development, production, stockpiling, and the use of chemical weapons. It also commits the parties to destroy the chemical warfare materiel in an environmentally safe manner by April 2007." -Parsons

13 months Left. Hrmmmm.

Anyway what I picked up from Parsons (NOT *I believe* to be confused with WorleyParsons) was that the situation has panned out like this (let me know where I'm off because I'm running on a limb):

1997 (post 1st gulf war) US troops are gettin messed up by russian supplied chemical weapons. All of a sudden it is uncool to kill with chemicals. Treaty is put together to to see to it that everyone's chems are disposed of. Well us and russia are the only folks with major stockpiles. (wonder what russia is doing to get rid of theirs?) So the army contracts parsons to design some smokestacks to burn it all off. 8 years later they've burnt 10%; seems you cannot build a fireplace big enough to burn off our stash.
That or they're not really trying for a reason. Dunno... anyway, pesky environmentalist start stirring poo with regard to smokestack emission around the turn of the millenium and by 2003 (?) 4 burn sites are shut down and chemical treatment becomes the norm. Problem here is this beatiful stuff we refer to as hydrolysate.

Link for Parsons' Newport Indiana Chemical Agent Disposal Facility

Treaty says we have to have this stuff gone in 13 months and most of its still here... Polish it up a bit and dump it downstream in the delaware; that river is already screwed. Once it is in international waters its not our financial problem.

Then there is this whole "acceptable Federal limits" in ppm... I'd like to see some VP's at Parsons have their family swimming pools filled with a few thousand gallons of whatever gets pumped into the Delaware.

I've got other things I'm working on... but this story is worth keeping track of. Lets keep it rollin' eh?

Two other things... is there anything else out that that is current? Not 3-4 days old but current... like the original article is written and loam posts it 15 minutes later; current.

Number two... anyone else discussing this in forums? If so where?

Sri Oracle

posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 09:56 PM
no doubt putting it off but they did try to do it earler but ppl just threw a fit about it so they go by jersy lol it is definatly woth keeping a track on

i higly doubt there will be any signifacant reports on it b/c they want to keep it as far away from the media as posable. i mean would you want the world to know your fallign behind your plans (like allways) lol

the truth will be known in time

posted on Mar, 6 2006 @ 10:35 PM
Is the effluent water currently being dumped? or if not when will that begin?

Also check this:
Materials Safety Data Sheet for VX

[edit on 6-3-2006 by Sri Oracle]

posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 08:58 PM

According to that sheet, exposed victims go straight from a runny nose to severe incapacitation and then death. No middle ground, no formes frustes.

Like, if it doesn't kill ya, then there's no related health problems. Short term or long term.

posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 12:49 AM
i think death could be classafied as long term lol

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