Cry WOLF

Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
They ask so that they know what book to have on the altar when you are taking your degrees.

Bold statement, can you back that up?

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
They ask so that they know what book to have on the altar when you are taking your degrees.

Bold statement, can you back that up?

Yeah; the guy who was raised when I was initiated was a Muslim and the only purpose to asking him his religion was so that they could buy a Qu'ran for him to swear upon.

Yeah, that's what happens in my Lodge as well.

You learn something new every day. Thanks guys.

Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
Masonic Light; Freemasonry started in Scotland...

The oldest known Masonic document is the Regius Manuscript (circa 1390 A.D.), and is English. If Freemasonry existed in Scotland prior to this, history does not record it.

Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
They ask so that they know what book to have on the altar when you are taking your degrees.

good point, thats the practicing aspect of it. I wonder what happens with religions without holy texts? Anyone know of a specific example?

Also, does anyone know of anyone that wasn't atheist that was ever rejected from a lodge because of religion? I mean, masonry started as a christian group, but then came to include anyone that could work with the idea of a Supreme Creator behind the universe, and to a degree it seems like any religion can work with that.

And trying to keep more on topic...

The idea of a lambskin and jesus being the lamb is, obviously, a christian idea. Seems that this idea wouldn't hold too much water with, say, a hindu (even possibly not being permissible to some religions, at least if it was, say, a calf-skin). But then again one can see how the general idea of a 'lamb' as being innocent can carry over across different religions.

So then is this idea that masons are 'wolves in sheeps clothing' applicable beyond a christian context? It doesn't look like it, since the original poster is saying that masons are (or 'are probably') 'evil' merely because they match a literal interpretation of one part of a biblical passage (and thus must also match the corrollary second part of that passage), rather than, say, citing evidence of their evilness.

[edit on 1-3-2006 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by Nygdan
The idea of a lambskin and jesus being the lamb is, obviously, a christian idea. Seems that this idea wouldn't hold too much water with, say, a hindu (even possibly not being permissible to some religions, at least if it was, say, a calf-skin). But then again one can see how the general idea of a 'lamb' as being innocent can carry over across different religions.

For a non-Christian the symbol of the lambskin as 'purity of life and actions' and the aspiration to achieve same is probably similar across most relevant religions. I would guess.

I mean, masonry started as a christian group, but then came to include anyone that could work with the idea of a Supreme Creator behind the universe, and to a degree it seems like any religion can work with that.

HI,

Can you please provide proof of this as I am not aware that this is a fact?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

HI,
Can you please provide proof of this as I am not aware that this is a fact?

Prior to 1717, the Masonic fraternity was still governed by the so-called "Antient Charges", which required members to be Christians. These Charges date from the middle ages in England.

After the first Grand Lodge was established in London in 1717, the Brethren present adopted the ideal of the "Brotherhood of Man under the Fatherhood of God", officially allowing for the first time non-Christians to become members. This was naturally a result of the Enlightenment, which distrusted the spiritual elitism of established Christianity.

Today, practically all regular Grand Lodges require only a general belief in a Supreme Being in order for a man to become a Mason. The primary exception is the Grand Lodge of Sweden, which continues to require Christianity of its members.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
Masonic Light; Freemasonry started in Scotland...

The oldest known Masonic document is the Regius Manuscript (circa 1390 A.D.), and is English. If Freemasonry existed in Scotland prior to this, history does not record it.

It's in the stone; older Masonic imagery is found in Scotland than the dated Regius Poem. Tombstones; corner stones of buildings; etc.

Now one could say "well these symblos are older than Masonry" but used together as they are more or less used in the 1600s is a pretty strong connection.

Why do you think there is a requirment to believe in a god by the Masons?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Why do you think there is a requirment to believe in a god by the Masons?

So the lessons delivered via the ritual make sense. Without a belief in the creative, preservative and annihilative powers of a Supreme Being the injunctions and exhortations of freemasonry are hollow. It is one of the fundamental building blocks of the order.

The main reason for the belief in a supreme being is that the oath of an athist is not considered binding.

That's what I also thought.

Originally posted by Masonic Student
The main reason for the belief in a supreme being is that the oath of an athist is not considered binding.

Originally posted by Masonic Student
The main reason for the belief in a supreme being is that the oath of an athist is not considered binding.

I have to disagree with this. I realize that was Anderson's reasoning, but I cannot concur. If an atheist's oath couldn't be considered binding, they would not be allowed to testify in court or serve in the military and/or public office.

Instead, I am of the opinion that the atheist is excluded not because he is morally ingerior or untrustworthy, but simply because Masonry is a theistic society, and an atheist cannot accept theistic teachings. For the same reasons, the atheist cannot be baptized into a Presbyterian church, or whatever.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Masonic Student
The main reason for the belief in a supreme being is that the oath of an athist is not considered binding.

I have to disagree with this. I realize that was Anderson's reasoning, but I cannot concur. If an atheist's oath couldn't be considered binding, they would not be allowed to testify in court or serve in the military and/or public office.

Instead, I am of the opinion that the atheist is excluded not because he is morally ingerior or untrustworthy, but simply because Masonry is a theistic society, and an atheist cannot accept theistic teachings. For the same reasons, the atheist cannot be baptized into a Presbyterian church, or whatever.

Is joining the Masons joining a religion?

According to Masons: No. Freemasonry is auxiliary to religion.

Some Christian anti-Masons try to suggest that Freemasonry is a religion, mainly because it allows them to attack Christian Freemasons as "serving two masters".

The false prophet is no Mason - in fact when he does make his appearance – he will present himself to the Jews and Christians, as King Jesus.

'Tis a shame the Vatican - and also the majority of Christians, Masons, Jews etc. continue to support this King's new home - a place with an already prepared throne for an earthly King in the land called "Israel". Few will see through the lie until they stop reading the damn Bible so literally and then finally know that Israel was never supposed to be a land, or even a nation in the Middle-East!

Good luck with reading the Bible literally word, per word – Satan does like this form of materialism very much!



[edit on 5-3-2006 by markusjharper]

Hi Markus.

Are you saying that the Antichrist will come from the State of Israel?

Would you mind elaborating on how you know this to be true?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Is joining the Masons joining a religion?

No, it is a philosophical fraternity. However, its philosophy is based on theism, which seems to be why the atheist is excluded. We aren't prejudiced against atheists because of their beliefs, we just understand that atheists would not be able to honestly accept our theistic philosophy.

[edit on 6-3-2006 by Masonic Light]