Palestinian PM: If Israel Withdraws To '67 Borders, We'll Establish Peace In Stages

How about an Israeli counter proposal? As Jamhun said the West Bank.

Originally posted by mrjones
Jamuhn, way to hit the nail on the head!

Palestine does not exist officially and your post helps even more to prove that point.
It is an Israeli occupied territory inside of the country of Israel.
No mention of Palestine anywhere except that the disputed land is claimed by both.

No, you didn't read and/or understand the link. The Palestinian terroritories, not the Israeli territories, are a militarily occupied by a foreign power and they are not regarded as part of ANY sovereign territory. Yes, that includes not being inside of Israel. As well, the state of Palestine is recognized by many governments around the world, not including the US though.

And the Palestinian authority has been granted control over Gaza Strip and parts of the West Bank as a step towards autonomy. But, considering that Israel and Palestine have not moved any further since the Oslo peace accords, this deal represents another attempt at land-for-peace.

I know it's fun to deal in semantics, but let's just talk about the reality of the situation here, alright?

Going back to the 1967 borders will not solve the problem, ArchAngel, and you know this, unless of course, your blinded by your own propaganda and wishful optimism.

You--Hamas--cannot go from preaching eradication to overnite stipulating that existence is applicable only if one returns to the 1967 lines that Arafat, in essence, agreed upon, yet eventually cast aside because of his three well known and documented demands.

Its simply called doublespeak.
Something that your undoubtedly familiar with, cause you have accredited Israel of doing such in the past.

Further, the "peace in stages" scenerio does not end with the '67 lines demand/request.
Why?
Cause Hamas will then simply continue its long-sustained and implemented policy of terrorism against Israel (let the recent Israeli pullout of Gaza be your guide, k?--further, Israel will continue its policy of 'eye-for-an-eye in regards to Palestinian/Hamas renewed terrorism), thereafter proclaiming that they--Hamas--will recognize Israel only when it accepts to withdraw back to Europe or elsewhere from whence they--the Jews--came from...duh.
Try reading Denny Ross's The Missing Peace: The Inside Story of the Fight for Middle East Peace.

So please, continue to be hopeful, but please, forget the '67 lines, cause Israel will never accept such, being it was offered once already. Hamas knows it, just as you know it, despite your play on optimism.




seekerof

[edit on 25-2-2006 by Seekerof]

Palestine had a chance to become a state, They blew it because they hated the jews and wouldnt accept the jewish state beside them, I have no sympathy for them.

Israel, Needs to quit giving into these people, They always claim they want peace, And ask for land, Then once they have the land, Bam no peace they back out and start blowing themsleves up again, and play the same card over again.

[edit on 25-2-2006 by C0le]

Israel is a democracy is it not?
Then why haven't the Palestine people simply given up their pointless fight and attempted to merge with Israel?
Once they are citizens of Israel then they can vote into power their own leaders.
They can then change their name to Palestine if they want.


No, Instead of doing the job right they use terrorists and suicide bombers to show their "power" and attempt to win by intimidating their enemies.
These are signs of an oppressor, and that is the reason they have not succeeded.
Palestine will never exist because what they want is impossible to achieve.
They want to win their land and recognition by force and intimidation.

Force and negotiation is what they need to do.
Stand up militarilly, not with suicide bombers.
The world will take notice.

Either that or merge with Israel and take it over democratically


[edit on 25-2-2006 by mrjones]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Going back to the 1967 borders will not solve the problem, ArchAngel, and you know this, unless of course, your blinded by your own propaganda and wishful optimism.

Why not?

Israel needs a border, and the Palestinians need liberation.

The only decent alternatives are a withdraw, or to give everyone equal rights.

A withdraw would only be giving back what Israel took when they invaded in a Sneak Attack.

All the Palestinians are asking for is what was theirs.

Blind would be asking that they have less than what was theirs, and less than equal rights.

Further, the "peace in stages" scenerio does not end with the '67 lines demand/request.
Why?
Cause Hamas will then simply continue its long-sustained and implemented policy of terrorism against Israel....

This is your own supposition.

Maybe you are right, but neither of us have crystal balls.

They always claim they want peace, And ask for land, Then once they have the land, Bam no peace they back out and start blowing themsleves up a gain, and play the same card over again.

The thing is they did not 'have the land' since 1967, but they have asked.

They are not yet sovereign.

Your timeline is flawed.

[edit on 25-2-2006 by ArchAngel]

Israel is a democracy is it not?
Then why haven't the Palestine people simply given up their pointless fight and attempted to merge with Israel?

Israel is NOT a Democracy and they have NOT EVER offered citizenship to the Palestinians.

Israel does not want to merge with the people, they want to drive the Palestinians into the Dead Sea.

Its immigration policies are among the most racist in the world.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
All the Palestinians are asking for is what was theirs.

And it is here, with your above mention, that you have justified my point. To the Palestinians and to Hamas, all of Israel was theirs, ArchAngel.

Again, though it is a supposition, my mention has great merit and validity:

Originally posted by seekerof
Further, the "peace in stages" scenerio does not end with the '67 lines demand/request.
Why?
Cause Hamas will then simply continue its long-sustained and implemented policy of terrorism against Israel (let the recent Israeli pullout of Gaza be your guide, k?--further, Israel will continue its policy of 'eye-for-an-eye in regards to Palestinian/Hamas renewed terrorism), thereafter proclaiming that they--Hamas--will recognize Israel only when it accepts to withdraw back to Europe or elsewhere from whence they--the Jews--came from...

seekerof

And it is here, with your above mention, that you have justified my point. To the Palestinians and to Hamas, all of Israel was theirs, ArchAngel.

And yet now all they are asking for is what was theirs before 67.

If this is not acceptable, and Equal Rights is not either what would you propose?

Instead of a continuation of the current situation what solution would you offer?

You only offer excuses for continuation of repression.

Offer a solution to counter the generous offer from the Palestinians.

Originally posted by ArchAngel

Israel is a democracy is it not?
Then why haven't the Palestine people simply given up their pointless fight and attempted to merge with Israel?

Israel is NOT a Democracy and they have NOT EVER offered citizenship to the Palestinians.

Israel does not want to merge with the people, they want to drive the Palestinians into the Dead Sea.

Its immigration policies are among the most racist in the world.

Israel — Government Type: Parliamentary Democracy
According to www.cia.gov...

Sorry, your wrong.
By the way, Palestine, which does not exist, is not listed.

Originally posted by mrjones

Israel — Government Type: Parliamentary Democracy
According to www.cia.gov...

Sorry, your wrong.
By the way, Palestine, which does not exist, is not listed.

Israel has no constitution, nor defined borders, and racist immigration polices.

The CIA calling Israel a Democracy is half truth propaganda.

They are lacking many things other nations have.

Originally posted by ArchAngel

Originally posted by mrjones

Israel — Government Type: Parliamentary Democracy
According to www.cia.gov...

Sorry, your wrong.
By the way, Palestine, which does not exist, is not listed.

Israel has no constitution, nor defined borders, and racist immigration polices.

The CIA calling Israel a Democracy is half truth propaganda.

They are lacking many things other nations have.

You make all these accusations but show no evidence to the contrary, I at least search Google for something that validates my claims.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
If this is not acceptable, and Equal Rights is not either what would you propose?

Instead of a continuation of the current situation what solution would you offer?

I am no Middle East analyst or policy maker.
What I advocate is something that has been put forth by the Bush Adminstrations Middle east policy makers, and that is that Palestine, Israel, and the UN simply accept the boundry lines as they currently are (with Gaza going to Palestine, as well), with the disputed Jerusalem becoming a UN protectorate and neither Israel or Palestine having any boundry claim to Jerusalem. Further, refugees will only return to the newly recognized state of Palestine.

You only offer excuses for continuation of repression.

First off, nothing I have said advocates the continuation of repression.
'Repression' is a two way street in this applied case, ArchAngel.
It takes two to tango also applies in this case.

I simply stated that the 1967 lines would not be an acceptable offer.
Again, Hamas knows this, as you know this.






seekerof

Originally posted by ArchAngel
Israel has no constitution, nor defined borders, and racist immigration polices.
The CIA calling Israel a Democracy is half truth propaganda.
They are lacking many things other nations have.

Israel no formal constitution; some of the functions of a constitution are filled by the Declaration of Establishment (1948), the Basic Laws of the parliament (Knesset), and the Israeli citizenship law
www.cia.gov...


So on we go with half-truthes, They have no formal constitution.
they have "some of the functions of a constitution" however, as well as a "Declaration of Establishment"

Far more than Palestine has.

Once again, Palestine isn't even listed.

You make all these accusations but show no evidence to the contrary, I at least search Google for something that validates my claims.

You want me to prove a negative?

You show me the Israeli constitution ratified by the people.

It does not exist.

Israel is in violation of its founding document for failing to create a constitution.

Its legal situation is different from any other nation.

The leaders may be elected, but the STATE they represent is not LEGITIMATE.

So on we go with half-truthes, They have no formal constitution.

They have no RATIFIED Constitution.

The STATE is not of the people, by the people, and from the people.

[edit on 25-2-2006 by ArchAngel]

Hi AA,

What you are suggesting as fair is simply un-workable. Could you imagine the Southern Irish demanding that the North of the Island is returned to them?? That was once an undivided Island, before the English government became involved and brought about the division and imposed life-changes over a very short period of time, population growth and drift/migration changed the geo-political maps which we have come to accept. We change or we invite conflict.

I live in a small country who have fought tyranny for thousands of years, our closest neighbours are the last of the truly empirialist nations on planet Earth. If it were not for the English persecution of the Irish and the Scots, then America would be a less colourful place.

What I am saying to you AA is this; we either learn to adapt or we die fighting, it just seems to me that certain denominations would rather die than be opressed. This may appear noble, but please look who does the dying and who goes on to re-instate governments!

Regards

J

Hama's "generous" offer:

1)Have Israel leave Gaza and the West bank completely so it can rearm every single fruit in the movement.....

2)Pretend via Tariqya that they want peace and that a cease fire is a "first step".

3) After the cease fire ends, re-declare war with arms acquired from the Gulf states, Syria, and Iran.

Gee, Can anyone blame Israel for not wanting this dupe's offer? Now if Hamas was interested in Peace it would offer a peace treaty, not a cease fire. AA, I know you really hate the Israelis and want them all dead, but don't believe your own propaganda. PLEASE....

[edit on 25-2-2006 by Nakash]

What you are suggesting as fair is simply un-workable. Could you imagine the Southern Irish demanding that the North of the Island is returned to them??

The comparison does not apply.

They are not asking that one group be given power over another.

They are asking for all to have their own representation, and for Israel to have a border.

Draw a line, and allow citizenship and equal rights for everyone.

Its hard for them to come out and say it so the Zionists dance around the issue, but everyone knows they lust the land the Palestinians are on, and if the world turned its back for an instant they would drive millions of people into the Dead Sea.

Originally posted by gingerlad
What I am saying to you AA is this; we either learn to adapt or we die fighting, it just seems to me that certain denominations would rather die than be opressed. This may appear noble, but please look who does the dying and who goes on to re-instate governments!

Another shining example of adaptation is the Native Americans and the USA.
We pushed them off their land and claimed it for ourselves.
They inturn were granted small "reserves"
Now they run casinos all over the place.