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Pakistan buy J-10 instead of F-16

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posted on Feb, 26 2006 @ 01:48 AM
The main advantage i see in the J-10 is the long run. Lower running cost and lower armament cost.

While capability wise the F-16 is the better fighter but it'll be even later on when the J-10 airframe matures. So both of these would be even capability in the future depending on weapons fit or if the F-16 recieves a new engine or new upgrades and what not.

But to weapons. I heard a AIM-120 cost 1million a missile and its just going to get more expensive with new advanced versions like ram jet and new advanced seekers. While there is no denying that a missile will cost a lot but you cant deny chinese missiles will be less expensive and more attractive with the possibility of a production run in pakistan which in theory could give them the ability to control their own cost and give a boost to their economy. Just like the FC-1 i would think that a production line would be built in pakistan if something like 100 planes would be built giving jobs and experience to pakistanis economy

Now what does pakistan need first and foremost?.

While it would need actual planes and any sanctions from america would be crippling for such a large force and a force which were meant to be the tip of your spear having to be ground because of sanctions for whatever you did. I never heard of china putting sanctions on any of its buyers so i would have to say it would have to be china which can deiliver

While i would have to say a air superioty fighter which the J-10 at the momment is configured most for while the F-16 offers better A2G capability it wouldn't really matter if you had better bombing capability you still need to win air superioty and i think the J-10 would win in this scenario because of its better design(VWR) and i would have to say thrust to weight ratio after the AL-31FM-1 engines are installed. And the J-10 does have limited capability like LGB and un-confirmed TVGB capabilities. But does the F-16 offer guided misssile capability? Anti-ship missiles?. Its true that the J-10 thus far does not offer this but when it does it will be more useful considering china has a lead in Anti-ship missiles over america

Im just wondering what the J-10 will feature considering its bigger and the PLAAFs pride and joy. Maybe five MFDs?. Because if it doesn't pack heat then buy some of these FC-1s because their looking good

J-10s also might have it spilt between two cockpits where the first one might only have a confriguration like this but the back seat might be dedicated towards ground strike and guidence. JL-10A radar would be a nice addition. In the future the J-10 might be spilt into two version like the F-16A/B. The F-16 in the US airforce fills the role of ground attack while the F-15 is air superioty. While in the pakistani airforce its a air superioty fighter. The F-16 block 60s hold more fuel than a F-15(internal fuel) and its possible that the J-10 could hold as much fuel as a Su-30 plus adding the three drop tanks. which could make it into a long range patrol. Maybe even twin share where the F-16 which has better A2G could do the ground work while the FC-1 and J-10 does air superioty. FC-1 could be used as a good air interceptor combined with AWACS control

Cockpit wise i would have to say equal to the F-16 block 60 in design with a FC-1 with its very similar layout and full glass cockpit

external image

Im just wondering what the J-10 will feature considering its bigger and the PLAAFs pride and joy. Maybe five MFDs?

Any electric gear and radar goes to the F-16 hands down. ECM Data-links the works all belong to the F-16 if we are comparing fighters at this momment. But as the saying goes the turtle won the race or so the story goes

Radar wise the F-16 block 52 is in another generation while the J-10 is being tested with a mecahnically scanned phassed array while a ESA is in development. Passive or active i dont know. But the J-10s mechamical radar offers enough range or BVR with 120km detection or track and has the ability to engage 2-4 fighters. And a more powerful radar is not as useful with these shorter range missiles which does not yet make enough use of the detection range

In my opinion,

Pakistan should go for the F-16 just because they need the capabilities now and cannot wait for the J-10 to mature. While all these J-10 rumours sound to BS to be true.

But if a scenario happens where there is the option to buy the J-10 the stumbling blocks would be

Engine - to a extent. it could be modifled to be fitted with thw WS-10A which had just been finished testing and is going into production. While the russians could be nice and jsut let them use the AL-31. But that would invoke the rage of the indians and you know how big a lap dog russia is now days

WS10A Turbofan Engine was formally design certificated and named “ Taihang

US pressure - While the F-16 were a gift to pakistan and the US does not let gifts like this go with out a good reason. And the 40million each fighter that pakistan will be paying for will keep the F-16 production lines open until the F-35 starts production and the on sets of lay offs etc.

It was never on the table to begin with - I like this one the most. Some people going to far.

[edit on 26-2-2006 by chinawhite]

posted on Feb, 26 2006 @ 02:15 AM
I personally don't understand what people have against the J-10, It's a neat little plane that does the job, it looks pretty good too IMO.

And how many times do people have to say that the J-10 is not based on the Lavi?

posted on Feb, 26 2006 @ 02:16 AM

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
And how many times do people have to say that the J-10 is not based on the Lavi?

posted on Feb, 26 2006 @ 02:21 AM
Chinawhite, good analysis.
But all said and done, I would still go for the J-10. The US of A is thrusting the F-16s on the Pakistanis just so their assembly lines don't fold up. After all its the Americans who'll be laid off jobs. They're trying to palm them off to the Indians as well for the same reason.
But the other reason is that the Americans will be able to shut the tap of planes and spares whenever they want, just when they are most needed. And what then?
So this is more to do with politics and economics and not the technical parameters.
It's a zero sum game being played by the US of A.
India - 'If you don't buy our F-16s we ain't gonna support you on Kashmir'.
Pak - 'If you don't buy our F-16s we ain't gonna give you any more goodies in the form of financial and military aid'.

Caught in a cleft stick, what?

[edit on 26-2-2006 by mikesingh]

posted on Feb, 26 2006 @ 02:35 AM

"American aid is like a iraqi peasants honeymoon, Three days of milk and honey and then work on the fields for the rest of your life." -- Saddamn

India should stick with russia. But only buy american if the price or capability is extremely good. F-18s fill the MRCA amazingly well. Almost like it was custom built for it

posted on Feb, 26 2006 @ 04:24 AM
here is another cockpit for FC-1
external image

[edit on 26-2-2006 by emile]

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 03:25 PM
reply to post by mikesingh

LOL we still got our nukes and the delivery systems...
I can assure you they can fly

PS. Just kidding...

[edit on 3-4-2008 by hitman666]

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 04:31 PM
No it can't, it can only glide. *sarc*

[edit on 3-4-2008 by hitman666]

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 04:34 PM
reply to post by GrOuNd_ZeRo

Who gives a dime whether it's based on Lavi or anything else for that matter? As long as it does the job which I can assure you it does. People that whine about such things are obviously .... (You can fill in the blanks) It's basically the old whose thingy is bigger story.

[edit on 3-4-2008 by hitman666]

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 05:21 PM
Any ground realities to the F-16 blk 50 order being reduced to allow J-10 unit increase for the PAF?

In all, say by 2015-2020, how many FC-1s, J-10 and F-16s (blk 50 + MLUs) do we expect to see in the PAF?

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 06:09 PM
reply to post by Daedalus3

I think it was related to the J-10. PAF wants to diversify its air fleet as much as possible. The Chinese claim the J-10 outperforms their Flankers (Su-30MKK) in virtually all departments. The J-10 must be a potent aircraft and the Chinese have inducted it for a reason in such numbers.

Realistically, I think by 2015 we’re talking about 200 JF-17s, 50-75 J-10s, 60-80 F-16c/d and perhaps a small number of some other 4th/4.5th gen aircraft inducted. By 2025 some numbers of J-XX.

[edit on 3-4-2008 by hitman666]

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