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Calling in fire with green hand held laser pointers

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posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 05:50 PM
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A very very cool video of a laser pointer guiding in large calibre gunfire from a helicopter. Under the picture is a video link, which is VERY cool.

www.strategypage.com...

If you ever get lit up by a green laser .... RUN! rofl.




posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 06:28 PM
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That laser is only green because its a NV shot in which Green is the only color. Green is the easiest color for the human eye to see. Green for NV was a dilberate choice bacause of this Im sure they could have made it red or any other color if they wanted.

Designating lasers for the most part are smartly put in the IR range which is invisible to the naked eye. You dont what to tip your target off that you are painting it.



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 06:36 PM
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stupid reply pls deleate

[edit on 24-2-2006 by bodrul]



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 09:08 PM
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Lasing a target is also typicly done with a digital code on the beam, so each munition being spent in a crowded enviornment knows exactly which target it belongs to.



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 06:30 AM
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Very cool video


Im wondering what kind of helicopter was used for that, as it looked like to streams of fire coming from miniguns. Possibly an AH-6, like the little-bird helicopters from Blahawk Down?



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 06:28 PM
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I just love the ripping sound as the mini gun fires...although im trying to find a similar video where a black hawk is used in supression duties...will post as soon as I find it



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 07:04 PM
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Interesting stuff. I had the pleasure of meeting and representing, to the law enforcement and sporting goods industry for about a year, Dr. Heinz Tumml who was a scientist in what we used to call East Germany who was the first scientist to lase light. He does not receive credit however since we, in the West, tend to give credit to our side and back then we were decidedly on different sides. He used a ruby and about 20,000 volts of power to direct a bean across the room making a beam about one foot wide on the wall. lol
Heinz is still in the business doing sighting devices for Uncle Sam and the shooting industry.
I have heard that the Japanese are working on a green laser. I am retired so I have not kept up but when they succeed the device can be used effectively in sunlight.
skep



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 07:11 PM
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Ill dig up the links for you skep, but the russians favour green lasers for close quaters combat as they are more effective and visible in all conditions.

heres wicked lasers with some pics of just how good green military lasers are now


www.wickedlasers.com...

Oh and this from US military command


www4.army.mil...

[edit on 25-2-2006 by MadGreebo]



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 07:36 PM
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You can now buy green laser sites for rifles now though they tend to cost alot more then the red ones. They are actually alot better since they can be seen from farther away and better by the human eye. You can even buy some green laser pointers that can burn through a black garbage bag at close range.

Wicked lasers use to produce a $559 model green laser pointer that could do that.



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Green for NV was a dilberate choice bacause of this Im sure they could have made it red or any other color if they wanted.

You mean we could have a manly "light red" for the royal marines lol?



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 08:52 PM
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Nah the Royal Marines ordered pink......ROFL.


Green is ultra high vis even at dusk - red diffuses far to easy to be effective over range. The ones the yanks are using can be seen 25 miles away. Get that in your eye and thats going to smart a bit...



posted on Feb, 26 2006 @ 12:34 AM
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UB,

>>
I'm wondering what kind of helicopter was used for that, as it looked like to streams of fire coming from miniguns. Possibly an AH-6, like the little-bird helicopters from Blahawk Down?
>>

20mm = M197 on AH-1W
30mm= M230 on AH-64 Apache (AC-130 Mk.44 and A-10 GAU-8 also possible but inapplicable due to rotor noise)

2.75" FFAR applicable to both.

7.62mm= M134 or GAU-2B Minigun. Not the best choice anymore, simply because they eat a lot of ammo, very quickly, and they don't have the explosive fragmentation necessary to rapidly saturate air targets. Combined with poor ballistic (standoff and moving airframe compensation) properties, they are really little more than high-rate (hard to control) popguns for LZ suppression spraydown.

Don't be in lust with the MH-6, it's NOT a gunship. It is a scout helicopter with minimal power:weight, armor, sensor and repeat engagement counts onboard. The fact that they used it in BHD only shows how badly planned the entire deployment was that they didn't have real, firepower intensive, systems present to do the job better.

Speaking of which, laser marking systems are just the latest iteration in 'looks cool' systems which are 50%+ psyop. In terms of actual military utility, they follow on in the 'great tradition' of Xenon lights or IR Lamps on tanks.

On the principle of "He who lights up first gets smoked", they are very easy to kill and even when remoted, can put you and your team at very great risk for the weight you have to hump in getting them there.

The way you beat this is to have hunting weapons that fly to the source of the beam (or hunt the helos). Or (presurved) dual optics posts for passive ranging and a mortar that is over the local horizon. Even a decent sniper/AMR that can reach out and touch from an offset shooting position will do the trick if he's quick.

What's more, if an enemy unit captures one intact, there is a significant dazzle hazard and battlefield saturation potential inherent to attacks on helos (lolo, at night, from great distances) and troops moving in FIBUA conditions.

Myself, it's far _far_ better to know where _I_ am. And then to send coordinate offsets that target based on my relative observations of the battlefield without necessarily giving away my position.

Not least because a palmsized unit (Blackberry or similar PDA) can give me a digital map that I can compare with surrounding terrain and score multiple impact points that segregate fires based on GPS coordinates.

With or without active ranging.

The difference being that we have more or less untouchable/uncopyable standoff systems to do high quality digital map renders down to foot-resolution levels in specific mission areas. And the NVD/MMW sensors to see targets passively without having to give ourselves away like this.

Barbarians can defeat overt targeting. Real Easy. They just have to come into the fight with the expectation that you are going to be doing it and then create a situation by which you are at a known point that they can counter target (even with preplaced mines in likely overwatch/optimum LOS observation areas).

Remember, _they_ get the choice over where the fight is going to happen. You have to go to them based on their 'activity indicator' so that even what seems like your ambush attack may be part of a bigger trap.


KPl.



posted on Mar, 2 2006 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by MadGreebo
Ill dig up the links for you skep, but the russians favour green lasers for close quaters combat as they are more effective and visible in all conditions.

heres wicked lasers with some pics of just how good green military lasers are now


www.wickedlasers.com...

[edit on 25-2-2006 by MadGreebo]


damn wicked lasers is already posted.

that is an infared laser you see in the night vision. why would you use a visible laser, it would only give away your position whether it's green or red. if you are a forward air controller that would be the last thing you would want to give away

wicked laser has up to 1/3 watt lasers. now that would do some damage to not only your eyes but would burn you also



posted on Mar, 2 2006 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by ch1466


20mm = M197 on AH-1W
30mm= M230 on AH-64 Apache (AC-130 Mk.44 and A-10 GAU-8 also possible but inapplicable due to rotor noise)




No chance thats a GAU-10




1) theres no jet noise

2) the sound it makes is unique when fired


The rounds all come from a spooky.



posted on Mar, 2 2006 @ 01:40 AM
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double post

[edit on 2/3/06 by Harlequin]



posted on Mar, 2 2006 @ 11:28 AM
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BigX01,

>>
That is an infared laser you see in the night vision. why would you use a visible laser, it would only give away your position whether it's green or red. if you are a forward air controller that would be the last thing you would want to give away
>>

No it's not.

If it was, the camera would have to be NVD capable to see it and as such there would be noteable background imagery from the river glint (or whatever water that is) and the horizon itself would be 'skylit' from the illumination sources behind the impact area.

There is also little or no 'bloom' as there would be with an image intensifier on the camera until the very last pass when the helicopter launches FFAR directly overhead and suddenly the entire position, including the soldiers stading just feet in front of the camera, is illuminated.

All-Dark (to the camera) = .4-.76u (human visual) range lase.

Green is just below blue at the top of the human detectable spectrum. Red is at the opposite end of our base color range.

www.wickedlasers.com...

Does that look 'IR' to you?

Harlequin,

>>>
20mm = M197 on AH-1W
30mm= M230 on AH-64 Apache (AC-130 Mk.44 and A-10 GAU-8 also possible but inapplicable due to rotor noise)
>>>

>>
No chance thats a GAU-10
>>

If you will read what I say, I specified that it's **not** an _A-10 weapon_. In any case, the GAU-10 is a modified .50Cal while the AC-130 doesn't mount a 20mm weapon and a 30mm weapon. Only 20-40-105 (Spectre) and 25-40-105 or 30-30-105 (U-Boat).

>>
The rounds all come from a spooky.
>>

Again, not if those are 70mm FFAR. Only a forward firing weapons platform like an F-16, A-10 or AH-1/64 (AH-6, AH-58 or AH-60) could be responsible.

The guys chatting up the video crew specifically state- "IR Helicopter...", "That is an IR Sp-Spotlight." (Rotor Noise) "Here THEY come".

PLURAL.

You would not pair up AC-130s for this kind of a mission. Not necessary, not wise for orbit separations.

I'm willing to say the last auto burst might be 25mm from the slant and the size of the inbound clusters.

IMO, the guy who tried to flub up, caught himself when he realized that everyone there could see the damn strobe /without/ 'night vision goggles'.

The camera may have a green filter and if it's like most CCD imagers it may even have a wider detection band than humans do, into the .8-.9u range.

But the reason we use Green is because it _does not_ screw with 'IR'. Not gogglles (Near) not Targeting Systems (Mid/Far). That and the fact that it's easily visible for miles and so can be hand corrected and even tracked onto targets.


KPl.



posted on Mar, 2 2006 @ 09:56 PM
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No it's not.

If it was, the camera would have to be NVD capable to see it and as such there would be noteable background imagery from the river glint (or whatever water that is) and the horizon itself would be 'skylit' from the illumination sources behind the impact area.

There is also little or no 'bloom' as there would be with an image intensifier on the camera until the very last pass when the helicopter launches FFAR directly overhead and suddenly the entire position, including the soldiers stading just feet in front of the camera, is illuminated.

All-Dark (to the camera) = .4-.76u (human visual) range lase.

Green is just below blue at the top of the human detectable spectrum. Red is at the opposite end of our base color range.


yes it is clearly night vision. take a closer look at the video. the gain is turned down so as not to blind the camera. have you ever played with photomultiplier tubes?

visible light is from 400-700 nanometer range.



www.wickedlasers.com...
Does that look 'IR' to you?

Harlequin,


that is a long exposure shot.

i have a wicked laser product (75mw) and it does not even come close to that picture. it would if i did a long exposure or in fog. not to mention the fact that the beam in that picture abruptly ends not hitting anything.

and again why would you want to give away your position with a very visible to the naked eye laser pointer

i guess maybe if you were gomer pyle or homer simpson you would use a visible pointer



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 08:21 PM
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bigx01 your ignorance is astounding.

US Marines are using them in Iraq as a deterrent against car bombings to dazzle drivers, and to also mark possible sniper locations for US counter snipers hiding in other locations. Please note that to dazzle a driver the laser HAS TO BE VISIBLE!

Im too tired to dig the links up, but even wicked lasers have footage and photos of the US marines using them.

Please research and think before posting because reading stupid comments like your Re Homer simpson ect just detracts from the spirit of ATS.

[edit on 3-3-2006 by MadGreebo]



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 08:45 PM
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To answer an earlier post by ShadowXIX, he is correct when he says that green is the easiest color for the human eye to see, and this is why it's used in night vision. The reason is because humans can differentiate more shades of green than any other color.

Green lasers already exist; the previously referenced company Wicked Lasers makes some, although they cost a lot of money, several hundred bucks, but they seem to be high quality. There was an ATS thread on them, too, a few months ago.

And yeah, pointing lasers of the kind of power WickedLasers makes in somebody's eye is going to 'dazzle' them quite a bit! WL claims their lasers can be used by astronomers to actually point to particular sections of the sky, so that's quite a powerful and coherent beam, if it can travel that far up into the atmosphere. (Sure makes my little 1mW 630-680nm red laser look like the $5 piece of junk it is...)


bigx01:
wicked laser has up to 1/3 watt lasers. now that would do some damage to not only your eyes but would burn you also


Yeah, that would definitely do damage to your eyes, but I'm not sure if it would burn you or not. I suppose it might do some minor damage to the surface of the skin if you used it on one spot for awhile, but I wouldn't test that out, myself. Definitely keep it out of the eyes (and other people's eyes!) I remember reading once about some guy awhile back who got in a really deep pile of crap for pointing a hand-held laser pointer at a passing aircraft. If I recall correctly, he got charged under the patriot act as a terrorist, because he was messing with planes.



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 02:55 AM
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Originally posted by MadGreebo
bigx01 your ignorance is astounding.

US Marines are using them in Iraq as a deterrent against car bombings to dazzle drivers, and to also mark possible sniper locations for US counter snipers hiding in other locations. Please note that to dazzle a driver the laser HAS TO BE VISIBLE!

Im too tired to dig the links up, but even wicked lasers have footage and photos of the US marines using them.

Please research and think before posting because reading stupid comments like your Re Homer simpson ect just detracts from the spirit of ATS.

[edit on 3-3-2006 by MadGreebo]


i've seen the videos. it doesn't have to be VISIBLE to affect your vision. thats why you have goggles for infrared laser and thats why they have infared filter on their lasers also. i've been working with lasers a lot longer than you have. do your own research before you try to point things out to me


well hopefully you never give away your position

and since when is homer stupid?






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