There is only one Conspiracy...the Matrix has you.

The Matrix was based on ancient Hindu beliefs. The world existing as an illusion called Maya. Does anyone need to revamp the idea and put the Gods in skin-tight leather outfits and trenchcoats?

Arm of Geddon,

Nice one for the links, interesting in depth stuff.

Sun Matrix,
I will comment no more, I will leave you to it! Feels like I have been talking to a brick wall anyway. Good luck to you, but I will leave you with one thought.
Though the tree has many branches, they all lead to the same root!!. In other words there are many paths to enlightment, not just the one!

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
History has established that the Romans worshipped the sun and it was the religion of the Roman empire. It also tells us that Emperor Constantine took control of the Bishops of Rome and created the Catholic Church.

History books also tell us that the first Thanksgiving was held in America by the Pilgrims. That has been disproved in previous posts.

So, lets try to verify that the Roman Catholic church was taken over by Roman sun worshippers. We can look at the current grounds of the Vatican and verify it. Notice the Egyptian Oblisk carried from Egypt to the Vatican. For those who don't know, the Egypian Oblisk is the symbolic sex organ of the sun god. Notice it is located in the center of the sun wheel on the Vatican grounds.

There are countless things I could point out, but as usual, I feel it only necessary to hit the high points. Notice that the 'host' is placed is placed in a sun on the altar(being held up by the Pope).

Notice the symbol of Baal, the sun god on the popes robes. Notice the symbol IHS on the 'host'.

Here are two sites with some pictures that should verify what happened in the Catholic church.

www.aloha.net...

www.aloha.net...

Got a quick question. The site you mentioned does have an answer from the Chatholics. It is www.cathinsight.com...

It does make a good case against the claims and is worth reading.

From what I understand, the Judeo-Christian "God" or "El" was a mistranslation from an early text referencing "Al", a pre-existing Zoroastrian sun god Mithra. One of an entire pantheon of gods. This is one of those old facts that most people just don't track down. To me that puts a big damper on the idea that there is one God (well, sometimes theres three).

Got a quick question. The site you mentioned does have an answer from the Catholics. It is www.cathinsight.com...

It does make a good case against the claims and is worth reading.

I see they have redone their response. It is much, much better than before, but easily dealt with. Start with this response:

The pagans did not have a weekly festival day for the sun; rather, the the significance of naming days for planets (such as Sunday for the sun, Monday for the moon, Saturday for Saturn, etc.), as the Pagans did, was astrological, but not religious

This sounds good, but is it true. Hardly. He tells you that they are named for astrological and not religious. Then he hits you with Sunday, Monday and Saturday and tosses out the Etc. Let's look at the Etc. Thursday is Thor's day, the god of thunder. Friday is named after the Norse god Freya. Wednesday is Woden's day. Tuesday is Tiu's day named after the Norse god Tyr. By the way, Sunday is the day of the sun, Monday, the day of the moon and Saturday is Saturns day.

All these days can be traced back to Nimrod and Semiramis, the same lie.

In his piece Pagan Sun Worship and Catholicism, Scheifler argues that the Catholic Church endorses worship of the sun.

I certainly don't think the the Catholics push the worship of the sun at all. I do contend that they do not teach the truth that leads to salvation. The oblisk, sun wheel, cross of Baal are in reality, the mark of Satan.

He opens his piece by insisting that the Church changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday "with the assistance of Caesar." He is referring to Constantine there. But in order to evaluate the situation properly, one would have to (1) observe that, Latin being the official language of the Roman Empire, the Latin word for "Sunday" is "Dominica," which literally translates as "Lord's Day," and, this being so, does not have any connection with the sun,

Again, this sounds impressive. However, there is not a chance in the world that the Latin word Dominica was in existence as a translation for Sunday as "Lord's Day" until after Sunday became the Lords day.
Please, stop with the weak bull, it is totally illogical.

(2) ask the question, Why would Constantine, having become a Christian, wish to endorse Sunday as the Sabbath of the New Covenant? There is, in my view, only one sane explanation: because he knew the Christians were keeping Sunday holy as their Sabbath (and not Saturday),

Constantine never became a Christian as I have already shown, so take that argument out. Second, the Christians were forced to change their day, they had no choice. Sure, there were some worshipping on Sunday because many already had strong ties to worshipping Baal on Sunday, prior to their conversion(if they were really converted)

"The fact is, Dagon worship had died out long before [the early Christian persecution]

Dagon worship is nothing more than the lie of Nimrod continuing. The Popes hat or mitre is the head dress worn by Dagon. Dagon is the same lie........Nimrod and it continues to this day.

The same article also claims that what is now known as the Maltese Cross was formerly used in paganism. Scheifler says: "Twenty-eight hundred years ago that shape was symbolic of pagan sun worship." So? That was 2,800 years ago!

The lie of Baal was created thousands of years before Christ. SO WHAT. The lie was alive then and it is alive to this day. The fact that the lie is 2800 years old(his date) has nothing to do with anything whatsoever.

He says that this messianic halo is actually nothing other than the pagan symbol of Baal, shown here: How much more stupid can it get! It should be obvious now that one can find similarities without connections!

No, it is obvious that there are connections. How stupid would we be if we didn't see them?

Horror of horrors, the Pope wears a stole with a cross! Imagine!!! Wouldn't everyone agree that it is a cross, presumably standing for Jesus Christ and Christianity?

The cross of Baal is distinctive. There is no mistake.

What surrounds the cross in that stole is not the star of some pagan Ishtar but simply a rectangle with four points coming out of its sides because of the four-pointed cross inside. My goodness!

No, it is clearly the star of Ishtar, you saying my goodness, doesn't change the facts.

The obelisk has a CROSS on top of it. This represents the triumph of the Church over paganism.

No, it is the cross of Baal on top of the oblisk. The oblisk represents the sex organ of the sun god(Baal).

According to the Egyptologist Labib Habachi, "Legend has it that in the Vatican Circus innumerable Christians, including St. Peter, were put to death and that the reason this obelisk was not later overturned as were all the others in Rome was that it was looked upon as the last witness to the martyrdom of St. Peter."

Yep. Legend has it. Fact????????????????? Please......The legend or lie probably started when there had to be an explanation for why the oblisk was being put up.

So there we have it. The obelisk is there for at least two reasons: (1) to show the triumph of Christianity over paganism by capturing a beloved pagan symbol and christianizing it, and (2) to give a last witness to the martyrdom of the early Christians, who were persecuted, tortured, and executed most cruelly at the hands of the Romans. We might add a third purpose: by pointing to the sky, the obelisk reminds people that they are to "seek the things that are above" (Col 3:1).

So there you have it..................some made up bull.

I hope this has been helpful in exposing the deceptive strategies of the Seventh-Day Adventists and their out-of-whack claims. In order for their accusations to have validity, they must demonstrate connection, not just similarity

No, it was not helpful, it was a bag of bull crap. I certainly would have no trouble demonstrating connection if required. I hope I don't need to get too sidetracked and I bet you hope that too..................

If that doesn't cover it OGJ, get back to me.

After a nice weekend away from all this I've read what's been said and I see the problems others are having in trying to make Sun Matrix look at what we are trying to point out to him.

Sun matrix ............ you have all this 'evidence' about religion being blinded and how the 'truth' on religion has been hidden from its roots. I believe that is where your coming from.
Again I dont agree at all with using the Matrix as a tool or even word to describe what you are trying to convey.

This however is your biggest problem.


You are picking holes in religion, you are trying to uncover the 'real truth' behind all these holidays and sun gods etc. ........... you are however digging through a complete work of fiction. The bible my friend is the story book of God and Jesus. Its' like thinking Yoda is real and that the story of 'Star wars' was REAL. You scour through it looking at fiction and see errors??? I wonder why that is - The whole thing doesnt make any sence at all.

Are you trying to tell me and the rest of this board the earth is 6000 years old because of creation or is that part of the matrix blinding us as well?

Sun matrix you are the one babbling here and most people seem to be trying to tell you we can see you chasing your tail on this one.

I am not bashing Christians, I am stating the obvious here.

Dont post on here about 'Facts' which come from religion as they are fiction. The Anglican church takes the STORY of the bible and tells of the moral .... it tells that life is uncertain.

You however seem to take the whole thing literally.

All this waffle about a matrix blinding us from the truth ............ its all bull

Sun--you a SDA? Just wondering. I see where you are coming from and agree with some of it, the part I'm having trouble with is not the fact the Word is true (mr scratchyguy) but with the historical texts that are pointed to. We all know that history is written by the victor. So in light of this could it not be presumed that the facts are somewhat skewed. I mean that I understand the who the deceiver is and who God is, but are you saying that God gave the devil the power (he has none on his own except that which God gives him, you need only look to Job for confirmation of this) to construct such an elaborate plan? I mean the Word is pretty stright forward in most respects. And yes I do take most literal like creation. He spoke it...BANG it happened. As to mr. scratchythingy, the world was created to look old by God, remember He can do anything except save a rebellious people from themselves.

If you all are worrying about burning for an eternity in hell, don't sweat it. Jesus brought a message quite different from what you find in the 'bible'. Jesus told came to set us free. Jesus did not come here in the order that we would worship him. Jesus was a man. Jesus did not come here to condemn anyone. In fact, all who die, go to the same place. All is forgiven, according to the original word that Jesus shared with the crowds of people who listened. Consequently, there is no such thing as eternal damnation. The 'matrix' invented hell because those who do bad on earth must be punished. Correspondingly, those who do good on earth must be rewarded. The story of jesus has been ripped to shreds by the matrix. The version you read today is not what jesus told the crowds. Jesus came to set them free, not to imprison their souls as the matrix will most certainly do. The matrix wants you to worship the messenger, and don't ever, ever, think about the message itself.. (that would be the entirely wrong direction for you to go)..

So, to sum up my message, do not fear Jesus or the bible. There is no hell. And there is no satan. These were invented by the matrix. This is all part of the game. Those who live the game, feared Jesus and his message. They found this message to be a threat to the games survival. A man comes to earth and says we exist in the body of god. He says that when we die there is no eternal punishment for our earthly works. He disregards the established dogma. He pushes aside what we think we know. Jesus wasn't saving us, Jesus instead opened up our world to include the larger realities and the full body of creation. Those who were blind resisted the truth and it rolls on..

I hate to call Jesus a man/human/hippy or a flower child, but..

If you think there is a satan/devil, look in the mirror..

If you think there is a hell, all is forgiven..

-"The only matrix is the one you're willing to play."

Sun--you a SDA? Just wondering. I see where you are coming from and agree with some of it, the part I'm having trouble with is not the fact the Word is true (mr scratchyguy) but with the historical texts that are pointed to. We all know that history is written by the victor. So in light of this could it not be presumed that the facts are somewhat skewed.

No OGJ, not SDA. I am against religion, I have no use for it. I believe in the truth, Jesus is the prophesied Messiah, the risen Lord, the Lion of the tribe of Judah. I believe that the Bible is the Word of God. I believe that the Bible is easily provable to be the Word of God, by the fulfillment of the prophecies.

I'm with you about history being written by the victor. That's why I always go after facts. It is a fact that there is an oblisk, a sun wheel, a cross of Baal, etc. currently at the Vatican. These are symbols of Satan.

As I said before, Catholics don't worship the sun, but they are not taught the truth. They are taught salvation by sacraments and works. There is only one way of salvation, faith in the Christ, the son of God, the perfect sacrifice.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

By the way, I was raised Roman Catholic.

mega...where to start? Well it'd take nine pages to dispute what you're saying from the Word So i'll suffice it to say that if you want to know let me know and i'll u2u.

Sun...Cool just wanted to make sure you weren't a SDA, because I know where that road leads and have effective truth to tackle its subterfuge. How do you reconsile that scripture that says "as you see the time draw near forsake not the gathering together"? This would clearly illistrate an organized gathering and to tie that into the office ordaned in the Word and the commission were given y Jesus and Him putting the pastor in place for the perfecting of the saints?

if you read the old testament new testament and koran as one it all makes sence, put in organised religion and it all goes wrong. Just read it all, make your own choice.

[edit on 8-3-2006 by city trader]

How do you reconsile that scripture that says "as you see the time draw near forsake not the gathering together"? This would clearly illistrate an organized gathering and to tie that into the office ordaned in the Word and the commission were given y Jesus and Him putting the pastor in place for the perfecting of the saints?

I agree with that scripture. I probably am not making myself clear. Please gather together as the Word says. If you a attend a chuch where you are spiritually growing, please continue to attend there. I'm saying where ever you go, know the Word, and follow the Word. If you attend a church that disagrees with the Word, identify it and follow what the Word says and not what a religion says. I absolutely am not saying don't attend church.

Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt NOT be as the hypocrites [ARE]: for they love to pray standing in the churches and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and WHEN THOU HAST SHUT THY DOOR, pray to thy Father in private (Enoch 56:5; Sura 7:55); and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Alright, lets go from this point.

Satan created the Matrix to blind you from seeing God and the Messiah. He tried to stop the Messiah from being born. Then he tried to kill all of the Christians by the hand of the Romans to stop the message of the Messiah. He failed to stop the message of the Messiah as it continued to sweep through the Roman empire. So what happened?

I guess my first point should be: If the Jews worshipped the same God as the Christian, why is it that the Jews worship God on Saturday and the Christians on SUN-DAY God in his Ten Commandments said keep the Sabbath which was Saturday, holy. Again, the Matrix is designed to keep you in blindness and keep you from worshipping the true God. They had the day of worship changed so you could worship the sun and not the SON.

How did they manage to change the day of worship? History and facts should tell us.

Roman Emperor Constantine backed the bishops of Rome and took over Christianity. If the truth can't be stopped by killing the believers, they simply took control of the "church" and changed things. Check your history.

on the suday thing....in romans 14:5 it says
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

does the sabbath still stay on saturday? or do we try and keep everyday holy?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

How do you reconsile that scripture that says "as you see the time draw near forsake not the gathering together"? This would clearly illistrate an organized gathering and to tie that into the office ordaned in the Word and the commission were given y Jesus and Him putting the pastor in place for the perfecting of the saints?

I agree with that scripture. I probably am not making myself clear. Please gather together as the Word says. If you a attend a chuch where you are spiritually growing, please continue to attend there. I'm saying where ever you go, know the Word, and follow the Word. If you attend a church that disagrees with the Word, identify it and follow what the Word says and not what a religion says. I absolutely am not saying don't attend church.

ive studied all of this for around 15 years and know exactly what your talking about sun belive me. but i have stopped going to "church" a few years ago because they just dont teach the things that i belive....well, they do but they stop at a point. they dont mature in christ. i beginning to belive all of these churches are like babysitters for christians. they just dont let the people mature in the spirit and truth. i think most christians know nothing about what we are talking about and if i do try to explain it they dont really want to know or it too deep for them or something. but anyway i do get with a few friends all the time and we encourage each other and keep the word fresh in our minds about what is happening. i consider that gathering together.

does the sabbath still stay on saturday? or do we try and keep everyday holy?

God is certainly more interested in your heart towards him, than you keeping a law to keep a law. To me, all days are the same and yet I try to set aside a time of rest, as I feel it is good for the body and spirit.

hey sun did you know that this statue was on top of the white house?
en.wikipedia.org...

A few more things on the Catholic Chuch before moving on.

This verse always bothered me

1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will renounce the faith by paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the hypocrisy of liars whose consciences are seared with a hot iron. 3 They forbid marriage and demand abstinence from foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

just a note on the sun worship symbols...hitlers swastika is a symbol of the sun not the nazis.

Now lets talk about all the problems that the Christians have caused, specifially the Crusades. Oh those murdering Christians.

Now, the truth. The Catholic church was responsible for the Crusades. We have identified who the Catholic Church really was. It was the Roman Empire. That's why Popes are called Pontiffs, just like the Roman Emperor.

Jesus said check the fruit of the tree.

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Take a look at the fruit of the Catholic Church. The advancement of the Muslims was stopped by the Crusades. But here is what you never hear. You cannot find a Crusade that the Jews were not attacked and slaughtered, and there were plenty of Crusades. Any time you attack Gods 'chosen people' you show your fruit as corrupt.

I could go on and on and on and on about things in the Catholic Church, but the last few I will mention is that the 40 days of Lent comes from the pagans and the lighting of candles also.

To conclude, Satan left his mark on the Catholic Church. It is the mark of the sun. It includes the sun, the sun wheel, the oblisk and the cross of Baal.