MJ-12 Admission (late 70s!)

“The J.A. Hynek "Forgotten" Meeting with MJ-12 in 1953 (Admitted in late 70s on VIDEO!!!)

THE FIRST ADMISSION OF HYNEK's MEETING IN 1953 WITH MJ-12 (the late 70s) IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN WENT UNNOTICED BY ALL?
By Sebastian Wood (Independent Researcher)

There is a rare Video (which I own) from the late 70s called "UFOs : It Has Begun". This Video is the ONLY ONE I KNOW OF which actually states at the beginning;

"With Thanks to the DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE AND NASA..."

In this Video J.Allen Hynek talks about (with the blessing of the DoD) how he was called into a meeting of MJ-12 in 1953 to sight the "Great Falls, Montana Video and another one". He doesn't actually "say" MJ-12.
What he says is;
"6 distinguished Civilian Scientists and 6 Military Men, whom were called together by Truman".
TRANSLATION (BY ME);
Ah, that is MJ-12!

Perhaps, other Researchers have not noticed this. I have.
An MJ-12 admission PRIOR TO 1984 (when Jamie Shandera received them!!!)

Remember, it was NOT UNTIL 1984 that TV Producer Jaime Shandera received the MJ-12 documents from an unknown source.
Refer;
www.majesticdocuments.com...
ufocasebook.com...
www.mufor.org...

The MJ-12 Documents (let alone THE MJ-12 GROUP!) were not known to exist in the "public domain" before then! And much controversy about their "Authenticity" has raged ever since then.
This could be the "Defining Proof" of their "Authenticity" (realised by me).

Now, back to the ET CRAFT Videos that Hynek sighted at this MJ-12 Meeting in 1953!
On the "UFOs: It Has Begun" Video, the Video Sequence is MORE than in the "Public Domain" - these days. It simply seems to have been "mostly edited out" in Modern "Presentations" of the 1950 Video.

What remains of (in the "Public Domain") of this SUPERB VIDEO SEQUENCE shot in 1950.
"The Great Falls, Montana UFO Color Film August 15, 1950"
ufologie.net...
ufologie.net...

Dr. Josef Allen Hynek, (Astronomer);
www.cohenufo.org...

I'm (Sebastian Wood) going to have to claim this "discovery", because it's quite a "pearler"...

Are you sure you're not talking about the Robertson Panel?

en.wikipedia.org...

Otherwise you have a really good post. My take is that the Robertson Panel was just PR to quell public and Political interest in the UFO phenomena after the '52 wave.


I do recall Hynek ,I believe in one of his books, said that he first realized someone else was studying UFOs when he was denied an interview with a witness. I think at Wight-Patterson. I don't have a reference for that.



[edit on 22-2-2006 by lost_shaman]

Actually, as soon as I read it, I knew he was talking about the Robertson Panel (some call the report, the Durant report).

What Hynek may not have mentioned, is that he was playing for the other side at this time, and then went along with the idea of them being "birds" on the tape. (which he later recanted).

Indeed though, many of those involved with this panel are names that pop up in any inquiries into the Majestic 12.

One of the interesting things I remember from this, is that there was a letter from one of the members of this panel, which later implicated the group was still together years later, and influenced a few media specials on the subject. I know there's a thread on this somewhere, will look for it when I've got time.

By the way, there were two videos in contention especially during the panel, the Trementon and the Montana Falls cases....

I agree Hynek was speaking of the Robertson Panel.

A very good article on the MJ12 documents can be found here.

A few names are familiar.

In 1983 William Moore suggested the possibility of counterfeit government documents to induce former military personnel to speak out in a conversation with Brad Sparks. Sparks warned Moore that could ruin his reputation.

The idea may have been inspired by Sgt. Richard Doty with whom William Moore developed a close friendship in the early 1980s. Doty had been involved or suspected of being involved in the creation of several counterfeit government documents about bogus UFO incidents.

The term "MJ Twelve" first appeared on a "Secret" teletype message involving UFO photos, dated Nov. 17, 1980, which Richard Doty provided to William Moore in early 1981.

Interestingly enough at that April, 1983, meeting Moore discussed a "Top Secret" Project Aquarius document which was cryptically mentioned in the Richard Doty teletype message.

It is believed that Moore planned to publish snippets of information from the papers in his newsletter attributing it to his alleged high-intelligence sources. Later he would release the MJ12 papers to authenticate the information from his sources. Unfortunately, suspicions might be raised if the papers were sent only to him through his associate Shandera.

Enter Timothy Good. A year before the MJ12 papers were made public, Good visited Moore to gather material for his book "Above Top Secret," which would be published in July of 1987.

Moore's idea was if MJ12 papers were published in Britain in Good's book shortly after Moore's release in the U.S., it would divert suspicion that he might be involved in their creation.

Good's book was scheduled for publication in July so Moore could be the first to reveal MJ12 papers in mid-June at a UFO conference in California. The book would provide independent corroboration.

What Went Wrong?

Good's publisher decided to hold a press conference May 29 to feature the book's MJ12 papers and Moore did not learn this until a few days prior.

For Moore's plan to work however, he had release the MJ12 first, which he did on May 28, just a day before Good.

Of course, the 'coincidence' of the two separate releases one day apart created more suspicion than otherwise.

Edited to add: Good and Moore both deny he was the source who provided the documents to Timothy Good.










[edit on 23-2-2006 by garyo1954]

Originally posted by Ixataar
“The J.A. Hynek "Forgotten" Meeting with MJ-12 in 1953 (Admitted in late 70s on VIDEO!!!)

THE FIRST ADMISSION OF HYNEK's MEETING IN 1953 WITH MJ-12 (the late 70s) IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN WENT UNNOTICED BY ALL?
By Sebastian Wood (Independent Researcher)

There is a rare Video (which I own) from the late 70s called "UFOs : It Has Begun". This Video is the ONLY ONE I KNOW OF which actually states at the beginning;

"With Thanks to the DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE AND NASA..."

In this Video J.Allen Hynek talks about (with the blessing of the DoD) how he was called into a meeting of MJ-12 in 1953 to sight the "Great Falls, Montana Video and another one". He doesn't actually "say" MJ-12.
What he says is;
"6 distinguished Civilian Scientists and 6 Military Men, whom were called together by Truman".
TRANSLATION (BY ME);
Ah, that is MJ-12!

Perhaps, other Researchers have not noticed this. I have.
An MJ-12 admission PRIOR TO 1984 (when Jamie Shandera received them!!!)

Remember, it was NOT UNTIL 1984 that TV Producer Jaime Shandera received the MJ-12 documents from an unknown source.

The video you mentioned with legendary J. Allen Hynek may be a great discovery. I don't recall hearing this title before but since it's from the 70's I'm sure many researchers would love to get a copy Ixataar.

However I would like to say that is well known by now ( and correct me if I'm wrong ) that the MJ-12 documents were discussed in 1983 by tv journalist Linda Moulton Howe and agent Richard C. Doty during several meetings at the AFOSI offices in Kirtland Air Force Base. Those meetings were arranged by Peter Gerstein from CAUS since Linda Moulton was preparing a documentary produced for HBO.

According to Moulton's testimony Doty provided her with documents mentioning the Azteca NM crash, the Roswell NM crash, the Kingman Arizona crash and a crash in Mexico. Some films were promised during those meetings but never given and HBO decided not to produce the documentary without the promised films.

Those four crash correspond to the original MJ-12 documents that appeared later when Richard Doty and William Moore sent that undeveloped film to James Shandera in an anonimous envelope
and the rest is history.

Interestingly Richard Doty and William Moore were the secret agents " Falcon " and " Condor " that appeared disguissed in the UFO LIVE COVERAGE tv show in 1988.

Well, never "proven", but the suspicion (and I believe it's correct) is that Doty and Moore were the agents in question on those shows (great ones by the way, if you ever see them)... In my area, there were some strange things the media did after these shows aired, though in other areas, nothing unusual happened. Of course, my area (Tampa) is a military town....

The first special was cut off a half-hour early, went to infomercial... Before the special, the local news was touting they'd show reaction on the 11 o'clock news, but then never did or even mention it. The second special was cut out a whole hour early, and again, went to informercials...with no mention of it ever again. I was watching it while on the phone with a buddy, and we were both simply in shock...at how blatant that was.

of course, red flags go up with Doty and Moore. Both have been caught in hoaxes before, so it isn't a good thing....

I'll have to look to find it...but there's one document I recall, that doesn't use the name MJ12, but instead shows the Military Assessment Joint Intelligence Committee. Looking at the anagram...you'd get..."MAJIC" I can't recall if this was an FOIA doc, or one of the ones on majesticdocuments.com, so I'd have to check....

Hello all,
Thankyou for the great and informative replies.

However, Gazrok,
as you state Hynek WAS shown TWO Videos at this particular Meeting.
One Video being the Utah one and the other the Montana one. He does not claim that the Video shows "Birds". He states that this is what the "GROUP" told him to say they were.

Gazrok, you may possess the same Video as I do (it includes Vallee, an Interview with 4 Military Helicopter Pilots - In UNIFORM - ON AN ARMY BASE - Being Interviewed by their COMMANDER where they clearly claim to have been "BUZZED BY A UFO" - goes for about 5 Minutes) and that Kirlian Photographer (can't remember his name) whom shows an Experiment done using a DYE that shows up under Ultraviolet Light - in order to find "Marked" Cattle, which subsequently, are Mutilated).

Anyway, I shall watch again tonight and write down Hynek's EXACT words, and Post them here tomorrow.

I do not think it is the Robertson Panel.

Originally posted by Ixataar
Hello all,
Thankyou for the great and informative replies.

However, Gazrok,
as you state Hynek WAS shown TWO Videos at this particular Meeting.
One Video being the Utah one and the other the Montana one. He does not claim that the Video shows "Birds". He states that this is what the "GROUP" told him to say they were.

Gazrok, you may possess the same Video as I do (it includes Vallee, an Interview with 4 Military Helicopter Pilots - In UNIFORM - ON AN ARMY BASE - Being Interviewed by their COMMANDER where they clearly claim to have been "BUZZED BY A UFO" - goes for about 5 Minutes) and that Kirlian Photographer (can't remember his name) whom shows an Experiment done using a DYE that shows up under Ultraviolet Light - in order to find "Marked" Cattle, which subsequently, are Mutilated).

Anyway, I shall watch again tonight and write down Hynek's EXACT words, and Post them here tomorrow.

I do not think it is the Robertson Panel.

No, I do believe he was refering to the Robertson Panel. Everything you have stated thus far is about the Robertson Panel.

And Gazrok already explained, that Hynek said originally they were birds cuz of panel pressure, but later, when he turned against the partyline, often said that in reality, no one on the panel really believed they were birds.

The below excerpt is transcribed from the relevant “Hynek” segment, which is on the Video from the late 70s that I have, entitled “UFOs: It Has Begun”:-

(Commentator speaking);
“The CIA now would enter the picture. By convening a Panel of top scientists to examine the UFO phenomenon. The CIA’s concern was that recent waves of sightings might constitute a threat to National Security. The thinking was that the enemy could exploit UFOs as a decoy in the preparation for an attack on the United States. Five outstanding scientists and various Air Force and CIA representatives were to meet on Wednesday, January 14 1953. Among the Panel Members was one Associate Member who was destined to have more experience with the UFO phenomena than any other American scientist to date - Dr J. Allen Hynek, Astrophysicist and head of the Astronomy Department of North Western University.”

(Hynek now speaking);
“I was called into the meeting on Thursday. The Panel Members were seated around this table. It was a rather sombre and impressive occasion, actually. I was a Junior Member and I remember feeling considerably nervous and apprehensive about being in front of this powerhouse of scientists. But then for the past four years I had been Scientific Adviser to the US Air Force on this very problem. There were two films that were of particular interest to the Panel at that time. One was a film taken by a Navy Officer while on vacation in Utah, near Trementon, Utah. And the other was a film taken in Great Falls, Montana by the owner of the local Baseball team. The Utah film had already been subjected to some thousand or so man-hours of analysis by the Navy’s Photographic Interpretation Laboratory.”
(1st film is shown whilst Hynek continues to speak…)
“The Panel got up from their chairs and crouched along the walls and (unintelligible), and they asked to have the films run several times, as a matter of fact.”
(2nd film is shown whilst Hynek continues to speak…)
“On the basis of their detailed analysis of the Utah films, they had concluded that the objects shown in the films could not be Birds, Balloons, Aircraft and so forth, but indeed that they were “Self-Luminous Unidentified Objects”. Despite this conclusion, the Panel rejected this and concluded that the objects were Birds. They couldn’t be Unidentified, therefore they had to be Birds.”
(Films cease to be shown now. Hynek continues to speak.)
“I came away from the Meeting and from the room with the distinct feeling, however, that the Panel had deliberately moved to debunk the whole subject and not to give it the serious scientific attention which it deserved.”

(* Notes regarding Films shown whilst Hynek is speaking on the Video):-
(1st film lasts a total of 10 seconds. 2 Objects on “Normal Speed” are noticeable, passing behind a tower and over a number of other structures. However, on “Pause/Still Frame progression”, up to 22 Objects are noticeable.)
(2nd film lasts a total of 31 seconds. 4 seconds of the 31 second film sequence are not seen on the Video – as Hynek is seen talking, only. Therefore, 27 seconds of this sequence are shown on the Video. 8 or 9 objects on “Normal Speed” are noticeable, in the clear blue sky. However, on “Pause/Still Frame progression”, 22 to 46 objects are noticeable).


Now, was this Meeting that Hynek refers to MJ-12 or the Robertson Panel, or a combination of both “Parties”?
It appears, as Gazrok stated that it was the Robertson Panel, and thus I must "eat my words".

References;
“REPORT OF SCIENTIFIC ADVISORY PANEL ON UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS CONVENED BY OFFICE OF SCIENTIFIC INTELLIGENCE, CIA January 14 - 18, 1953”;
www.cufon.org...

From;
“Studies In Intelligence Vol. 01 No. 1, 1997”;
www.cia.gov...
“The A Die-Hard Issue
CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90”;
…
“The Robertson Panel, 1952-53
…
In January 1953, Chadwell and H. P. Robertson, a noted physicist from the California Institute of Technology, put together a distinguished panel of nonmilitary scientists to study the UFO issue. It included Robertson as chairman; Samuel A. Goudsmit, a nuclear physicist from the Brookhaven National Laboratories; Luis Alvarez, a high-energy physicist; Thornton Page, the deputy director of the Johns Hopkins Operations Research Office and an expert on radar and electronics; and Lloyd Berkner, a director of the Brookhaven National Laboratories and a specialist in geophysics. (30)
The charge to the panel was to review the available evidence on UFOs and to consider the possible dangers of the phenomena to US national security. The panel met from 14 to 17 January 1953. It reviewed Air Force data on UFO case histories and, after spending 12 hours studying the phenomena, declared that reasonable explanations could be suggested for most, if not all, sightings. For example, after reviewing motion-picture film taken of a UFO sighting near Tremonton, Utah, on 2 July 1952 and one near Great Falls, Montana, on 15 August 1950, the panel concluded that the images on the Tremonton film were caused by sunlight reflecting off seagulls and that the images at Great Falls were sunlight reflecting off the surface of two Air Force interceptors. (31)
The panel concluded unanimously that there was no evidence of a direct threat to national security in the UFO sightings. Nor could the panel find any evidence that the objects sighted might be extraterrestrials. It did find that continued emphasis on UFO reporting might threaten "the orderly functioning" of the government by clogging the channels of communication with irrelevant reports and by inducing "hysterical mass behavior" harmful to constituted authority. The panel also worried that potential enemies contemplating an attack on the United States might exploit the UFO phenomena and use them to disrupt US air defenses. (32)
To meet these problems, the panel recommended that the National Security Council debunk UFO reports and institute a policy of public education to reassure the public of the lack of evidence behind UFOs. It suggested using the mass media, advertising, business clubs, schools, and even the Disney corporation to get the message across. Reporting at the height of McCarthyism, the panel also recommended that such private UFO groups as the Civilian Flying Saucer Investigators in Los Angeles and the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization in Wisconsin be monitored for subversive activities. (33)
The Robertson panel's conclusions were strikingly similar to those of the earlier Air Force project reports on SIGN and GRUDGE and to those of the CIA's own OSI Study Group. All investigative groups found that UFO reports indicated no direct threat to national security and no evidence of visits by extraterrestrials.
Following the Robertson panel findings, the Agency abandoned efforts to draft an NSCID on UFOs. (34) The Scientific Advisory Panel on UFOs (the Robertson panel) submitted its report to the IAC, the Secretary of Defense, the Director of the Federal Civil Defense Administration, and the Chairman of the National Security Resources Board. CIA officials said no further consideration of the subject appeared warranted, although they continued to monitor sightings in the interest of national security. Philip Strong and Fred Durant from OSI also briefed the Office of National Estimates on the findings. (35) CIA officials wanted knowledge of any Agency interest in the subject of flying saucers carefully restricted, noting not only that the Robertson panel report was classified but also that any mention of CIA sponsorship of the panel was forbidden. This attitude would later cause the Agency major problems relating to its credibility.”

From;
“The “Pentacle” Memorandum”;
www.cufon.org...
“2. The greatest implication, which is perhaps not obvious on first reading but which amounts to a scandal of major proportion in the eyes of any scientist, has to do with the outright manipulation of the Robertson panel. Here is a special meeting of the five most eminent scientists in the land, assembled by the government to discuss a matter of national security. Not only are they not made aware of all the data, but another group has already decided "what can and cannot be discussed (Pentacle's own words!)" when they meet. Dr. Hynek categorically stated to me that the panel was not briefed about the Pentacle proposals.”

I still hold onto the fact that an "unadulterated/un-blacked out" Appendix C that I hold in my hot little hand lists January 15, 1953, MJ-12 and Hynek all named on the same document (although not on the Internet).

Not to worry, the Robertson Panel it so is!

See Skadi's comments.

Hynek went along with the "birds" when he was part of the program.....before going to UFOlogy's "side"....

Some may not realize, or recall, that he also went along with the "temperature inversion" theory for the 52' Washington buzzings also, (when working for Uncle Sam) though later he admitted it was preposterous....

Hynek went along with the "birds" when he was part of the program.....before going to UFOlogy's "side"....

This is very telling IMO.

Also when you consider that Hynek said that at the meeting the inability to identify the objects in the video meant they felt they must conclude that the video was of "birds".

To put that into context , you must consider that this reasoning would have been logical at the time to anyone paying attention to it.

While it seems illogical now to say "unidentified " has to mean "birds" after 60 years of UFO sightings worldwide, at that time this would have been all the majority of the public would need to put the UFO phenomena behind them.

[edit on 1-3-2006 by lost_shaman]