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There are No Atheists

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posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by johnnyutah

Science has still not disproved the existence of god and until it does I remain agnostic.


An agnostic believes by definition that the existence of God will never be proven or disproven. Agnosticism isn't waiting for proof, it accepts there never will be. It is not a temporary state it is a permenant position.

Anyway, I'll pose a question for all you believers who are tied to primitive superstitious behavior. What makes you think that your superstition is more credible than others ? From the Earth Mother, Sun God past the polytheistic religions of Norse, Greek, Roman, and Hindu to the modern monotheistic religions of Judaism,Christianity, and Islam.

Why is your God the one ?

Why is it you can laugh at the primitive superstition of the Greeks for example but can't even contemplate that your own God gives you as much protection as a rabbit's foot ?

Religion is for weak minds unable to live within society without dubious moral guidance. Your parents were happy that you were indoctrinated at an early age because it saved them from teaching you the difference between right and wrong themselves.

The older believers just can't stand the idea that consciousness is finite and cling to any delusion.

The weak can't stand the loneliness of their own thoughts. Some go to psychiatrists to reveal them others console themselves that "God" can hear them.

It's all a great shame really because life and sentient consciousness is an extraordinary phenomena which should be appreciated for what it is and enjoyed.

But don't thank God. Thank your parents. They are the creators.




posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 04:38 AM
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I think Sight2reality summed this thread up perfectly when he/she made the point that just becasue something is conceivable, it does not necessarily mean it is believed.

Another post here alluded to the concept of believers being restricted by their beliefs from realising their full potential. The same must be said for those who don't believe, for anything that is completely ruled out from consideration will act as an obstacle to achieving this goal. Believe or don't believe, but above all, be open to the possibility.



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by Jack of Scythes
Okay, okay...very "deep thought" and cryptic. Did you know that raw atheism cannot exist if the very concept of god whithers and slithers in the brains of atheists? If their brains can put three letters together, "g---o---d", the concept materializes so rapidly that it is almost an instinctual reaction.

So, then we're all hindus because we know about brhama and dharma and vishnu and the like???

I'm going to make you a member of a mystery religion now.

THUS SPAKE ZARATHUSTRA!!!!!!!!!

Gosh, ain't that fun? Now go build a mural of a guy slaying a bull with the morning sun behind him.



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by John bull 1
I'm an Athiest.

Agnostism is a cop out.

A person who believes nothing is a Nihilist.


How nice. Just like a religious nutjob, here's a great example of an atheist, with his faith that there is no god; who uses his belief to put down a whole group of people who simply say "I don't know" but I'm willing to entertain the possibility of a god".


Tell me, Mr Atheist: Since you're so certain in your atheistc beliefs and a "believer in science", surely your belief that there is no god must be based on scientific evidence. Show me the evidence that supports your belief!!



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 01:13 PM
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Does God Exist...This is not really the question Agnostics are asking, and God Does NOT Exist is not the statement that athiests are maiking. If you really listen the question and statement are this -Where does faith come from and how does it Strengthen?.

The secret is this-faith itself and the strength to grow it comes from the very source you are inquiring about. Sound stupid? I used to think so too, but it is true. You cannot believe in God unless he wants you to. Letting go of control is the entire problem. Most of mankind cannot accept the fact that they are not in control, even of their free will choices. We can only choose from that which is in our nature. If one is evil then they cannot choose good, no matter how hard they try, and if one is good then although they may SIN they will continually choose the good path, and cannot draw from evil.

We are either a willing servant or an unwitting tool. The potter makes both the art for display and the garbage receptical from the same clay. Is it not God's right to make both the rightious and the un rightious for his Glory? John 3:16 states that whoever believes will have everlasting life...the question is DO YOU?



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 01:21 PM
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It's nice to see that at least a few people agree with me.



Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
Tell me, Mr Atheist: Since you're so certain in your atheistc beliefs and a "believer in science", surely your belief that there is no god must be based on scientific evidence. Show me the evidence that supports your belief!!


FFS, I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that most people don't just assume things until they are proven wrong. Sure I assume when I get up in the morning that my vehicle will start, or that I will have electricity in my house for all of its uses, but those assumptions are based on the fact that everyday prior to this one they have worked. It's based on the fact that I can observe all of the variables surrounding these events, and make an educated guess what will happen the next day. I can make predictions.
I don't however pray that the mail will come even though there is no reason to suspect it will. I have a new mailing address, doesnt matter. I've never went down to the post office, doesn't matter. I have no clue who delivers the mail, makes no difference. Scientific assumptions are based on observations and can make predictions. Science doesn't have all the answeres yet, but from what we know there is no proof of "God" either way. There is also no proof either way of flying invisible monkeys, but I don't assume they exist until science disproves them. Do you see where I'm going with this?

[edit on 24-2-2006 by The Zodiac]



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 06:33 PM
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There is no point in arguing with someone who's belief system centres around a God that can defy every logic that scientific standards abide by.

However, we should atleast expect consistancy from a supreme being. Science is consistant it abides by laws. God ,Goddess, Gods, Goddesses have proven not to be.

I would expect a supreme being/beings to be able to tell the same story twice. Is that too much to ask for ?

The Romans incorperated new gods into their panthean in every country as a way of calming the local population and because they wanted to be on the safe side incase the new god was powerful.

Fanciful I know but true.

I wonder what people will say in a couple of millenia about the religions of today ?

Now, I've never seen any proof that God does exist. In fact I've never seen any kind of evidence outside of superstitious scripture.

You know, or should know, that it is impossible to prove a negative.

I can't prove that God does not exist but then I can't prove that the entire universe is floating in a goldfish bowl sitting on a mantle piece. It doesn't mean that I accept that there is the remotest chance that is the case.

The onus is on you to provide proof. You are the one stating a positive.

Now Prove It



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by John bull 1
However, we should atleast expect consistancy from a supreme being. Science is consistant it abides by laws. God ,Goddess, Gods, Goddesses have proven not to be.


Science consistent? Science is as consistent as religion, as I am sad to say. New theories challenge old ones, new evidence refutes old theories, science will never be consitent as long as the human mind keeps expanding and building upon its last judgements. I believe that a few thousand years ago scientists thought the Earth was the center of the universe. They also believed that the Earth was flat and that heat came from a fountain of energy that is transferred from one object to another. Are these theories consistent with the theories of today?

Thankfully, judaism (or the early form of christianity) has been around ever since man has been around (do the background check). Contrary to popular aetheistic belief, God is very consistent. His teachings and theories still echo in the minds of man today, and they haven't changed since pen was put to paper. Yes, man has taken God's words and twisted them to suit his purposes, but there is a difference between God's teachings and man's perception of God's teachings. Martin Luther King Jr. used His teachings to conquer segregation, and the Catholic Church has used his scriptures to take countless lives. Should we blame God for a murder because the murderer shouted "In the name of God" before he committed the act? Perception is reality.



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 11:19 PM
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The oldest faith in the world, as far as I know, is not Judaeism, but Hinduism, as attested to in the link below.

usapedia.com...

The reason I feel no need to prove my beliefs is that I have no desire to convince others to believe as I believe. They can believe what they want.
If I have seen evidence of life after death, but cannot prove it, so what?
Why should I care if others do not believe me? I don't.



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by The Zodiac
Even if you are agnostic you are by default atheist. If you feel that it is impossible to know whether "God" exists, you obviously don't believe he does.


How do you get to that conclusion?

I think it is impossible for me to know whether there is another planet in our universe inhabited by humans, but that does not in any way mean I don't believe that such a planet exists.

The same logic can be applied to anything which cannot be absolutely known with the information at hand.

Inverencial Peace,
Akashic

[edit on 24/2/2006 by AkashicWanderer]



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 12:32 AM
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Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
How do you get to that conclusion?


If you feel it is impossible to know whether humans inhabit this planet, then ask yourself a couple of questions.

Can I say I believe they live there? No.
Can I say I believe they don't live there? No.

It's not that you believe they don't live there, just that you can't say they do. Notice how I said "you obviously don't believe he does", and not you obviously believe he doesn't?


Originally posted by John bull 1
Only religion can make a good man do evil things.

What about the government?


Originally posted by TheBlueSoldier
Should we blame God for a murder because the murderer shouted "In the name of God" before he committed the act?

Yes, Absolute Power = Absolute Responsibility

[edit on 25-2-2006 by The Zodiac]



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 05:35 AM
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Originally posted by John bull 1

Anyway, I'll pose a question for all you believers who are tied to primitive superstitious behavior. What makes you think that your superstition is more credible than others ? From the Earth Mother, Sun God past the polytheistic religions of Norse, Greek, Roman, and Hindu to the modern monotheistic religions of Judaism,Christianity, and Islam.

Why is your God the one ?

Why is it you can laugh at the primitive superstition of the Greeks for example but can't even contemplate that your own God gives you as much protection as a rabbit's foot ?

Religion is for weak minds unable to live within society without dubious moral guidance. Your parents were happy that you were indoctrinated at an early age because it saved them from teaching you the difference between right and wrong themselves.

The older believers just can't stand the idea that consciousness is finite and cling to any delusion.

The weak can't stand the loneliness of their own thoughts. Some go to psychiatrists to reveal them others console themselves that "God" can hear them.

It's all a great shame really because life and sentient consciousness is an extraordinary phenomena which should be appreciated for what it is and enjoyed.

But don't thank God. Thank your parents. They are the creators.


Finally some one who speaks something intelligible.

if you really want to learn about religion, you look into anthrpology. the study of what it is to be human, and you'll find it's quite possibly an evolutionary reflex that we have some type of inbuilt knowledge of a “god” but that description is merely a symptom of what I’m talking about.

You can be sure there is such thing as Atheists, purely because it's based on some scientific fact


oh and before someone says, "show me scientific evidence there is no god".....come on....stop using circle logic and understand that there is nothing suggesting there is a god....nothing at all.....so just find something else!

[edit on 25-2-2006 by Azza]



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 05:40 AM
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But are you agnostic ??? To be Agnostic you have to have a belief or refuse to buy into a belief. I pray for your soul dear one as GOD truly lives and our time draws nigh. Whilst I do not force my opions on anyone I am glad that God made me.



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by John bull 1
You know, or should know, that it is impossible to prove a negative.


It's only proving a negative if god doesn't exist. Atheists establish their belief based on faith--nothing else. There is no science that supports your faith any more than any other religion. Atheism is a kind of religion as it requires faith.

A previous poster used the analogy of the existence of "flying monkeys". The problem here is that no one, that I'm aware of, remotely believes that flying monkeys exist. This is a consistent ocurrence. However, more people on this planet believe in the existence of a higher power than those who do not. This is inconsistency.

I'd like to use a different analogy: The existence of life on other planets. There are those who do not belief that life exists on other planets (Atheists) simply because they haven't seen the evidence. There are those who do believe in extra-terrestrial life-- despite none has ever been discovered (god believers); and there are those who are willing to accept the possibility but because none have yet been discovered, they are willing to hold back their beliefs until proof of other life forms exists (agnostic). I know, I know. The definition used earlier stated an agnostic is one who believes it's impossible to know the nature of God. This is a very narrow definition just as it is very narrow to say that all Christians are strict followers of Jesus. There are variations of agnostisism.

As an agnostic, I choose to hold back my faith but still have an open mind while I wait for some kind of definitive proof that God esists.

[edit on 25-2-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 10:05 AM
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Of course, all this discussion is totally pointless until we have an agreed definition of what we mean by God


Do we mean the OT God who created the world in 7 days, smote those who displeased him and spoke to people via burning bushes?

Do we mean Zeus, King of the Gods on Mount Olympus?

Do we mean a conscious all-powerful entity that controls all aspects of the universe?

Do we mean a conscious all-powerful entity with a special interest in certain groups of people on one measly little planet?

Do we mean something more akin to the Star Wars 'Force'?



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by Jack of Scythes
Did you know that raw atheism cannot exist if the very concept of god whithers and slithers in the brains of atheists? If their brains can put three letters together, "g---o---d", the concept materializes so rapidly that it is almost an instinctual reaction.



Can you put the letters U-N-I-C-O-R-N together? Do you have a concept of what a Unicorn is? How about V-A-M-P-I-R-E? Do you believe they really exist? No. Does the fact that their visage can slither in your brain mean you believe in them? No. It's an idea, a thought, a concept. Not something you believe is 'real'.

Can you imagine yourself flying? Can you fly?

Just because you can formulate a thought doesn't mean you have a belief in it.


I'd also like to point out that a belief in God is not necessary to have beliefs about life, love, unity, spirituality and an afterlife. An agnostic or atheist can have beliefs in many things. They just don't believe or know there is a God.



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 01:44 PM
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*SIGH* people always misunderstand Anselm's ontological proof. May I suggest reading a little Thomist philosophy? The Summa theologica would be a great start to understand the argument the original poster was getting at (though it was rejected by Aquinas himself.



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Nakash
*SIGH* people always misunderstand Anselm's ontological proof.


On the contrary. Disagreement does not equate to misunderstanding.



May I suggest reading a little Thomist philosophy?


Sure.


Originally posted by Nakash
The Summa theologica would be a great start to understand the argument the original poster was getting at (though it was rejected by Aquinas himself.


Well, if the original poster cannot convey the point he/she is making, I'm hardly willing to research something I totally disagree with.



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by John bull 1

Anyway, I'll pose a question for all you believers who are tied to primitive superstitious behavior. What makes you think that your superstition is more credible than others ? From the Earth Mother, Sun God past the polytheistic religions of Norse, Greek, Roman, and Hindu to the modern monotheistic religions of Judaism,Christianity, and Islam.

Why is your God the one ?


Okay, am I wrong in the way I took this, or did you intentionally mean to call anyone with a spiritual belief primitive and superstitious? Because if that's what you meant to do, I'm not going to be answering you because your highly evolved and advanced intellectual condition probably won't be able to interpret my primitive guttural response.

So I'll just take me happy li'l self over here in the corner and fling me poo at the window and eat boogers.

Have a good day!



posted on Feb, 25 2006 @ 02:45 PM
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I've read quite a few religious "manifesto's"...yet, as I find all of them following a main thought ( childrens bedtime stories to raise them correctly ) I've found no actual proof of God.
This said, I'm not "anti"-God. I'm Deist.

Lex



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