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Open Letter to America from a Canadian - Read at own risk!!!!

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posted on Oct, 21 2002 @ 04:42 PM
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Never mind that earth-friendly technology already exists to once and for all end dependence on oil, coal and nuclear energy from huge, out-of-control utilities and corporations. You would rather pay through the nose for your insecure comforts, wouldn't you America, and make others pay with their blood.


Go get your ten-billionth burger, America. Fatten your already fat asses with bacteria-and-hormone-ridden meat and do nothing as you sit stupefied before your mind-numbing television sets awaiting the next episode of sad families being humiliated on "Cops."

See Response Letter Batch#1 www.baltimorechronicle.com...
See Response Letter Batch#2 www.baltimorechronicle.com...
See Response Letter Batch#3 www.baltimorechronicle.com...


Dear America:

And so it has come to this. Your once-great nation has fallen into madness, an affliction of mass denial that brings shivers up the spines of millions outside your borders. Yours is a sick nation. But most of you carry on as though nothing at all is the matter.

Dark, evil operations run rampant in the secret corners of your government institutions. A dubiously constituted government pursues war at will anywhere on earth, discussing nuclear options that become points for cheerful chatter over lunch. Your military and intelligence agencies employ terrorist tactics around the globe even as they insist that such tactics are necessary in the fight against terrorism.

You have become a nation of monsters, America. Hypocrites. Murderers. Fools.

Your constitution is a shambles thanks to "national security" measures resulting from what might well be U.S.-government-sanctioned terrorist attacks in New York City and Washington D.C., covert provocations designed to justify a malevolent, poisonous, oil-based military economy.

Never mind that earth-friendly technology already exists to once and for all end dependence on oil, coal and nuclear energy from huge, out-of-control utilities and corporations. You would rather pay through the nose for your insecure comforts, wouldn't you America, and make others pay with their blood.

At the same time, you stand by as the Israelis' secular Zionists--whom you support through the supply of arms and money--slaughter untold numbers of innocents in the West Bank, then blame the Palestinians for bringing the terror upon themselves. (True, there are abominable Arab suicide bombers in Israel's midst. But are they not driven to madness and desperation by your infernal support of international terrorist politics?)

As I write these words, you support a nation run by a convicted murderer by the name of Ariel Sharon who with impunity is carrying out war crimes as cruel and horrendous as those of other sadistic tyrants in history. And you say, in your utter cynicism, 'When will these Palestinians bring this war to an end?'

You recklessly wage combat on other fronts, too. At home, your War on Drugs is a disastrous 30-year folly--a gigantic con game designed to benefit lethal cartels, corrupt politicians and menacing intelligence agencies across the planet.....

With your government's support, crooked multinationals like Monsanto buy up the world's water supplies, and take possession of the world's vegetation through Frankenstein technology already known to cause illness.

Does the FDA care about any of this? It does not. It has long been on the bandwagon to foist genetically altered food on the Guinea Pigs of the country--including every man, woman and child on America's increasingly toxic soil.

You are a nation of suckers, America, to be bled dry of your hard-earned pay through outrageous bank schemes, Wall Street rip-offs and fake government budget grabs. Your Pentagon cannot account for trillions in lost dollars.

Does this bother you? Not in the least.

Your whole economy is controlled by what is for the most part ravenous, international private banking interests in the form of The Federal Reserve, which with your government's consent leads you down the garden path to certain financial ruin thanks to a national debt you will never be able to repay.

How is it that private banks are responsible for issuing your currency? How is it that they are allowed to charge ridiculous interest rates on what they issue? By decree, this was supposed to be the responsibility of your government, which could create its own currency without charging interest.

Do you realize your congress could dismiss these banks in an instant if it so wished? But don't ever count on it. More important matters are pressing. The upcoming election needs investment.

These very same money men are the ones who, through unmonitored and unrepresentative world committees, are driving countries like Argentina into hopeless debt and social upheaval. These greedy overlords are creating strife and suffering on a scale too tragic for words in nation after nation. Just look at Africa.

They've got their sights on America, now, too; disrupting economic stability through so-called free trade initiatives and provisions for special favors and the endless flow of cash to corporate monstrosities like Enron.

Amid all this, where are those who are supposed to represent your interests, America? For the most part, your congressional representatives are nothing but swine gathering at the corporate troughs. Your president is a white-collar thug, a hypocrite who through his actions celebrates war, repression and greed even as he gives lip service to peace, freedom and justice.

George W. Bush deceives you daily, the war monger hiding behind a phony patriotism. He is an Enron buddy boy, a spoiled child lying in his teeth about his past and current dirty deeds.

Does he care about you America? Hardly. This is altogether obvious to those outside your borders who are politically aware and awake to the world around them.

You were never concerned about the disgraceful practices of George's ruthless father, either, a Bin-Laden cohort and friend to criminals and killers in global drug, oil and terrorist enterprises. Iran. Vietnam. El Salvador. Chile. Guatemala. Iraq. And on and on. The never-ending bully-boy story of blood, guns, drugs and money.

Does any of this matter? No, it's simply time to eat.

Go get your ten-billionth burger, America. Fatten your already fat asses with bacteria-and-hormone-ridden meat and do nothing as you sit stupefied before your mind-numbing television sets awaiting the next episode of sad families being humiliated on "Cops."

Few among you are the least bit concerned that no real investigation of 911 has taken place, that no serious investigation of the anthrax attacks is moving forward, that no authentic investigation of Enron, or the murder of one of its top executives, is underway.

How many of you give the slightest damn about the totalitarian measures your government is taking to keep its secret meetings, grubby files and treasonous activities from your eyes?....

When did you stop caring, America? Was it after your own FBI and intelligence agencies plotted the murder of President John F. Kennedy? Or is this just the raving lunacy of the conspiracy nut? What does your gut tell you, America? Is something a little amiss here?

Forget about it. Have some Pepto-Bismol.

Today, in futility, your own government goes to court against itself for information you are entitled to by law. But this is hardly deemed vital news in the community. It is a fleeting reference in an electronic sea of meaningless banter. For proof, just look to all the spineless wimps who constitute your mainstream news media.

Today, you excoriate, ridicule and ostracize the brave and true among you. Your best investigative journalists are fired from their jobs and ignored. Congress's few courageous souls are laughed at and dismissed out of hand as crackpots. The most honest and conscientious political leader in the country, Ralph Nader, is a powerless, near-invisible curiosity easily side-lined by hired goons.

America, you are a goddamn shame.

What law matters now in your despicable state? What justice? What truth?

When will you wake up?

If you had your druthers, you would right now gather your courage, take to the streets and march on Washington D.C in the millions. But I know you will do no such thing. The vast majority of you are spiritually, emotionally and intellectually dead.

As I write these words, I can only imagine what additional horrors your shadow government might be planning in what will surely be an attempt to justify militarism and totalitarianism on a universal scale. A nuclear explosion in one of your cities, perhaps? A massive bio-chemical attack?

Or perhaps it will be some Arab terrorist who finally commits the terrible deed, his last thought before death being the promises you made to him before you killed his family.


[Edited on 21-10-2002 by Illuminati-NWO]




posted on Oct, 21 2002 @ 05:13 PM
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You're pathetic !


Each day, I have to see and hear these stupids statements about the USA, here, in the EU.

I hope for the Canada tha all Canadians peoples aren't like you, otherwise.....poor Canada !

Your " letter " is just a #ing propaganda for low IQ peoples.

Do you know what ? Before shouting against the USA, open your month against Red China North-Korea, Iran, Arabia Seoudia.....

Before shouting against these " bads " Israelians, say " thank you Tsaha'l, you' re defending our freedom against terrorists "

You, and all your kinds of peoples like you, are my ennemy !!!

You are not democrats ! You are totalitarians peoples who can't suffer freedom and liberty. You're allways shouting against the Occident and all the democratias, but I NEVER heard you shouting against tyranic nations !!!NEVER !!!

We didn't heard you when North-Korea has overruned the South.

We didn't heard you when Cambodia was dieing under Pol Pot regime.

We didn't heard you when Viet boat-peoples were trying to escape from Hell.

We didn't heard you when the East-Germans were killed by the VOPOS, cuz they were trying to reach the West.

We didn't heard you when former USSR were targeting our cities & places with their SS-20.

We didn't heard you, when Chineses students were fighting for their freedom in the Tiananmen Place.

You are the earth plague. The humanbeing plague. You have to be TERMINATED immediatly !!!

You're worst than a cancer.


[Edited on 21-10-2002 by ThePhoenix01]



posted on Oct, 21 2002 @ 07:05 PM
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# you and your crazy views, if you cannot see truth in these words then I honestly feel sorry for you!!!

I do not see China bombing countries to smithereens, I do not see Korea bombing the middle east to kingdom come, I do not see the leader of China making up stories and pissing off people to invoke terrorist behaviour.

What I do see is US going totally insane!!!

It is a sad business when you can no longer trust your own government to tell you the truth. That's the great harm to America that President Bush's propaganda campaign against Iraq has caused.

Trust is a fragile but precious thing. One lie can destroy it, for once a person lies, you can never be certain in the future if he or she is telling the truth or lying some more.

If only President Bush had been honest with us in regard to Iraq, then I would be supporting him. All he had to do was tell the truth: There is no evidence that links Saddam Hussein to the Sept. 11 attack; there is no hard evidence that he has any weapons of mass destruction, but we suspect that he does; given his past history, we believe it is imperative to get United Nations arms inspectors back into Iraq to determine the truth, for I fear, if he does have weapons of mass destruction, he might one day decide to supply them to terrorists.

Instead, the Bush administration has asserted as fact that Iraq does have weapons of mass destruction, does have links to al-Qaida and is an imminent threat to the security of the United States. When Iraq offers to allow the world to come see for itself, Mr. Bush says that's just a trick. When Iraq offers to allow the U.N. inspectors back in, Mr. Bush argues against them going. He is determined to get the U.N. Security Council to pass a resolution that no leader of any sovereign nation could accept.

That's the same trick the Clinton administration pulled on Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia was willing to admit U.N. or even NATO observers into Kosovo, but the United States insisted that as part of the deal, NATO troops would have unrestricted access to all of Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia turned it down, as the United States knew it would, and the bombing campaign started immediately.

That's what Bush wants. He wants a resolution Saddam Hussein cannot accept so Bush will have the excuse to go to war. His objective is not disarmament, but regime change and American occupation of Iraq. American and British financial interests have never forgiven Iraq for kicking them out in the late 1970s when it nationalized the Iraqi oil reserves. Two of the clauses he knows Saddam will never accept are for any permanent member of the Security Council to add its own representatives to the inspection team and another clause that states armed forces should accompany the inspectors. Mr. Bush has never mentioned to the American people that the United States corrupted the last U.N. arms-inspection process by using it as a cover for spies. That is a fact.

Hopefully, the French will hang tough, and Mr. Bush won't get his war-triggering resolution. Then he will be forced to choose between naked aggression without a U.N. fig leaf or allowing inspectors to go back and do their job. I expect he will choose naked aggression. He will call whatever gaggle of small and weak countries that give their passive assent his "global coalition."

I thought of George Orwell when George Bush, in a belligerent speech before he signed the congressional war resolution, said it was being done "for the cause of peace." That's newspeak war is peace.

Trust in George Bush is gone. What he is doing is anti-America in the sense that it violates all the traditions that made this country great. We are like Rome now, with thousands of soldiers stationed in more than 60 countries and our emperor proclaiming the right to remove any sovereign government he doesn't like (provided, of course, it is small and defenseless).

Far from serving the cause of peace, Mr. Bush is involving our country in a perpetual war against the rest of the world, a war we will eventually lose. He is not protecting the American people; he is endangering all of us.



posted on Oct, 21 2002 @ 11:01 PM
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I think, fellow-posters.
The original Baltimore Chronicle article made it very plain (for whatever motive) that the "letter" had originally been presented for publication in the Washington Post, and had not been printed there.
It certainly comes across as a little partisan with the focus of anger being America in general, two US Presidents and GWB.
Also, you'll see that the bulk of the "letter" concerns itself with domestic events rather than the international events to which ThePhoenix01 draws attention.
I can't help thinking that one could substitute any name of any leader for any country that happens to find itself the dominant power at the time -and come up with the same comments.
Give or take a technology, this is what Tacitus and Juvenal were saying about Imperial Rome at its height, it's what Victorian critics were saying of Britain at her imperial zenith; it's what Marx was saying about capitalism in general and so forth.
Perhaps just a general indicator of the truth of old maxim about power corrupting and absolute power corrupting absolutely.
All leaders would probably like to behave in these ways; but at any given time in history very few have the power. It probably looks worse for America because her leaders have to at least maintain a fiction of fully representative democracy before the law -not something your average Roman Emperor had to pay too much attention to (although even they had occasionally to bow to the fiction of rule by the Senate).
I'm not sure why any Canadian feels the urge to rush to print to condemn another country -I don't imagine Canada, Britain, Australia or any other English-speaking nation could claim to be significantly better (other than in areas where their relative lack of power makes them ineffectual)
So - I'd call this a draw -the US is in an awful condition and so, as far as I can see, is just about everywhere else. The mopre powerful a nation: the worse it looks but if power over rottenness could be made into a ratio - I'd guess there would be a pretty regular score for just about every strong "democracy" -and most other nations, too.



posted on Oct, 21 2002 @ 11:39 PM
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didn't I read that 'Open letter' on Rense?
Most places I have been to in Canada are more similiar to the US than some place in the US. You've gotta cross that border and travel a bit before you really see a big difference. They too use oil and also have fat burgers. But, I love going to Canada! I am fortunate to live a few hours from the 'falls. Canadian people are great (well, except those French Candadians, lol) and the beer is better than ours. I go up to the Niagara a few times a year and if I lose less in the casino than my wifes does on shopping I am happy man.

Here's another op-ed, from a Canadian, that was going around post 9/11 that came to mind:

This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.

America: The Good Neighbor.

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars! into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon -! not once, but several times - and safely home again. You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."



posted on Oct, 21 2002 @ 11:41 PM
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Definetely truth in both views.

Sadly, this post seems to give the impression that Canadians are gloriously free of the plagues ravaging America. Hardly so, speaking as a Canadian; Canadians love their couch-potato, believe-it-if-you-saw-it-on-the-six-oclock-news lifestyle as much as any American.

I can only assume that the demographics among Canadians are about the same on a percentile measurement, +/- a percent or two.


(I should at least redeem myself by adding that I would kick Dubya in the nuts given the opportunity)



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 02:34 AM
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Originally posted by Illuminati-NWO
# you and your crazy views, if you cannot see truth in these words then I honestly feel sorry for you!!!

I do not see China bombing countries to smithereens, I do not see Korea bombing the middle east to kingdom come, I do not see the leader of China making up stories and pissing off people to invoke terrorist behaviour.



You don't see them bombing ? Go to the Tibet. Peoples there will have a different point of view !!!

Korea ? Did you mean North-Korea ? This crazy country, who thinks it's better to put all his money for weaponry when his peoples are starving ? This country who, with the help of your great friends ( USSR/China ) tryed to destroy the South.

I tell you, if you was not in a democratia, you should not be able to open your big mouth !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope that Bush will smash your ugly monkey face !!!!

Peoples like you are allways pro-tyran, pro-dictators & anti-democratia.

#ing Leninist-Marxist !!!
Horrible socialist-communists bastard !!!
You're a tyran who have read to much his " little red book " !!!

When I think that I had to protect #ing asshole like you, I'm SICK !!!!

2 weeks ago, I went to a tavern, in my town.Just to drink a Cola, and I was ALONE !!!! There were 3 assholes/bastards like you. 2 " leftists-humanists "and a nazi skinhead.

Unbelieveable, right ? 2 leftists and a nazi....They were speaking like you. HA HA HA HA HA........I went straight to them, I putted my santiags on their table, my eyes in their eyes and asked them what was their problem ?

Even the skinhead didn't dare to open his mouth. I was lauhing from them, and they were looking their feets !!! Bastards and cowards !!! Yeah...Cowards !!! Cowards who have everything in their mouth but nothing in their stomach !!! Little balls guys !!! Nothing in their pants !!!

You are like them !!! A bastard and a coward !!! That's why you're so pro-Saddam, or pro-Arafat. Cuz you are all a bunch of cowards who will sold their freedom to these butchers cuz you're afraid to fight.

I'M SICK OF YOU Mr THE GREAT COWARD-BASTARD !!! REALLY SICK !!!



psssssssst.........u're a coward !



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 04:12 AM
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I must say Mr Phoenix, you seem like the most narrowminded person I have ever met. If you really really want me to list all the wars our very young country has had in its mere 200 years of existence you would be flabbergasted. If I compare this against these socalled evil countries you talk about you would certainly see a very grim picture emerging and you will indeed hold the words of this Canadian for truth.

And as for the other comments of applying this lettre to other countries that does not hold up either, not one country has been justifying itself in preemptive strikes in order to attack at any time and anywhere. When other countries try to implement this tactic they are being told off, what makes America more justified then other countries???

No mate you have got it all wrong, these wars being instigated by the Bush government will cost alot of people their lives and you seem to support him wholeheartedly. I can honestly say that Bush is a bigger tyrant then for example the leader of North Korea, Bush has just as many deaths on his conscience and there will be many many more.



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 05:34 AM
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Originally posted by Illuminati-NWO
I can honestly say that Bush is a bigger tyrant then for example the leader of North Korea, Bush has just as many deaths on his conscience and there will be many many more.



Originally posted by Illuminati-NWO
I can honestly say that Bush is a bigger tyrant then for example the leader of North Korea, Bush has just as many deaths on his conscience and there will be many many more.


North-Korea leader. Sure, a soooooooo great man. A man who has told : " If I have to do a war, just to keep my power, I'll do it . Even if this war will kill 90% of my peoples. I don't mind, I'll rebuild the country with the 10% who'll be still alive "

I didn't heard Bush saying that he'll do a war who'll kill 90% of his own peoples.

I didn't heard Bush saying that he'll nuke Irak. No, I heard him saying us that he want to remove Saddam.

I'm not a fanatic who want to do a war. I just want to leave in peace, like everybody. But I see Saddam, Arafat, and all the others tyrans from the whole world
( Cuba, N-K, Red China,Arabia, Iran...etc...) like what they are : a bunch of tyrans who want to destroy us by any ways. They are not thinking in a democratic way. So, we have to do like them. You can't speak with dictators ( remember Hitler ). You have to fight with them, you MUST kill them.Cuz if you don't do it, or don't want to do it, they will fool you and will hit you in the back.

I'm not a fanatic, but I'm not a stupid pacifist who will sold his freedom and live, just to a have a so-called peace. When it's time to fight, FIGHT !

Unfortunately, now, it's time to fight. Now, we have ONLY 2 choices :

1) unconditionnal surround.

2) Fighting, even to death.

Looks what's happened in Europe. When some nations were democratias, and others were not. WARS, only wars. Since all Europe nations are democratics nations, we don't have any wars in Europe. ( Don't speak about Yougoslavia, Yougoslavia was NOT a democratia ).

If you want the peace, you have to have ONLY democratias, cuz the dictatorships are hating democratias. They want to smash down democratias.

So, you have to know what you want. Living in a democratia, or living under a dictatorship. Most of the times, things are not black or whites, they are greys.
This time, things are just blacks or whites.

Unfortunately, for an unknown reason, you don't see it.


[Edited on 22-10-2002 by ThePhoenix01]



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 12:02 PM
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Mmmmm I sense that I am talking to a not so bright person. Reason I say this?? Well for starters you are backing up a government that is doing just the same as the socalled evil countries you condemn.

Just take a look at the latest draft president Bush made up last month,

www.cnn.com...

[QUOTE]The report, which was required by law, has been in the works for months. It makes clear that the Bush administration has no plan to cede the military superiority the United States has built up since the collapse of the Soviet Union. "Our forces will be strong enough to dissuade potential adversaries from pursuing a military buildup in hopes of surpassing or equaling the power of the United States," it says. [/QUOTE]

Do you understand what is written in Bush's statement??? He says that he will not allow any other country to get a technological or military supremacy over the US, if that is the fact he will engage in a pre-emptive strike!!!!

So for the Bush government it does not matter if that country is peacefull or not, it will make up a story to justify attacking it.

Do you honestly think that all these wars are the answer, you will create even more agression, what people are failing to see is that the money that is going to bombs should be spent on humanitarian aid. If the US spent the 400 billion dollars that goes to bombs on humanitarian aid then noone would ever have the urge to attack the US in terrorist actions. Tell me honestly because I would like to know, what is best 100,000 innocent lives lost in carpet bombing and 1,000,000 possible new terrorists coming to the states wreaking havoc on innocent Americans or spending all that money on humanitarian aid???

Do you know why they do not spend this money on aid, because Bush and his government doesn't give a rats ass about people, they only care about filling their pockets.

Agression invokes agression, its the evergoing vicious circle!!! And that is just what the US wants, this circle is what brings possibilities, people in fear are people that can be controlled so much more easily, more terrorist attacks is what the US wants and provokes because think of all this money Bush and his administration is making from it.

If you really really think this is the quest for peace then I can honestly say that I am talking to the dumbest # on this planet.

Let me explain to you one of the ways a government pushes people to get support for what they want done(sorry that you are not smart enough to figure this out yourself, lots of fools in this world I am sad to say).

Okay here it goes,

Governments manipulate the way the masses think and feel, so we live our lives and see the world in the way the evil government want us to. For instance, the most powerful of the manipulation techniques is one I call [B]Problem-Reaction-Solution[/B]. It works like this:

You want to introduce something you know the people won't like.This may be more power to the police, a further erosion of basic freedoms, even a war. You know that if you offer these policies openly the people will react against them. So you first create a [B]PROBLEM[/B], a rising crime rate, more violence, a terrorist bomb, a government collapse, or you get one of your governmentfunded puppets like Saddam Hussein/Bin Ladin to go to war.

You make sure someone else is blamed for this problem and not you, the real people behind it all. So you create a "patsy", as they call them in America, a Timothy McVeigh or a Lee Harvey Oswald. You then use your media to tell people what they should think about your manufactured event and who they should blame for it. This brings us to stage two, the [B]REACTION[/B] from the people - "This can't go on what are [B]THEY[/B] going to do about it?"

This allows [B]THEY[B] to then openly offer the [B]SOLUTION[B] to the problems they have created - new legislation which advances their agenda of centralisation of global power or the erosion of more basic freedoms. This technique is being used all the time on the human mind and emotions, not least with the stream of mind-contolled youngsters and adults who go crazy with guns around the world and immediately prompt gun control laws or when looking at 9/11 were people are actually begging to be stripped from their civil rights.

So you see Phoenix, you have alot to learn and as you so nicely state it, not everything is black and white, but believe me everything that I see is in full colour, now its up to you to not say man is this guy full of # but try and see where I am coming from.

Does this socalled coward really have a point.

What you call a coward I call someone free of mind not bound to silly perceptions that have been slammed into my mind by the ever ongoing propaganda machine. You are very subsceptible and that is sad, people like you is what the Bush government likes and its people like you that are willing to die for someone who doesn't give a rats ass about you.

REMEMBER THIS VERY WELL, Bush is the guy that is the real coward, he went AWOL during 'Nam just because he was scared, and now he is willing to send soldiers to find an early grave. Fighting himself ooooh no, sending people to fight, YES PLEASE!!!!!

IF YOU ARE NOT WITH US, YOU ARE AGAINST US and you will be dealt with accordingly. IF YOU GET IN OUR WAY YOU ARE IRRELEVANT and you will be dealt with!!!! BUSH'S OWN WORDS!!!!!! THE WORDS OF A MADMAN!!!



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 12:56 PM
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posted by Illuminati-NWO

Mmmmm I sense that I am talking to a not so bright person.

A : That's what I was thinking about you.


posted by Illuminati-NWO

It makes clear that the Bush administration has no plan to cede the military superiority the United States has built up since the collapse of the Soviet Union. "Our forces will be strong enough to dissuade potential adversaries from pursuing a military buildup in hopes of surpassing or equaling the power of the United States," it says.

A : Yes, of course. If the Chicom or the former USSR were in the same position, you can be sure, they would cede their military power. They wouldn't take any action against their ennemy. Of course, they are so peacefull.

Hey, do you have another stupid statement like this one ? Or do you know a country, just 1, who has ceded his military power to his ennemy ???? Poor guy !

posted by Illuminati-NWO

Do you understand what is written in Bush's statement??? He says that he will not allow any other country to get a technological or military supremacy over the US, if that is the fact he will engage in a pre-emptive strike!!!!

Of course I understand. I understand that he'll do what he have to do to protect his country against foreign treats.

posted by Illuminati-NWO

So for the Bush government it does not matter if that country is peacefull or not, it will make up a story to justify attacking it.

Yeah sure, Saddam is a peacefull man. Everybody know that Saddam want ONLY peace. It's a fact. Damn it, and me who was thinking that Saddam was a tyran. I'm so stupid.....Not like you, who are so intelligent, who has the real true !!!

posted by Illuminati-NWO

Do you honestly think that all these wars are the answer, you will create even more agression, what people are failing to see is that the money that is going to bombs should be spent on humanitarian aid. If the US spent the 400 billion dollars that goes to bombs on humanitarian aid then noone would ever have the urge to attack the US in terrorist actions.

A : Ok, let me see if I understand your point of view. These country don't use their money to help their own peoples. No, they are spending their money to buy weapons. Weapons who will be used AGAINST us. So, we have to spend OUR money to help their peoples, and in the same times, to help these corrupted tyrans to stay in place. Like this, they'll have all their time to build a war machine who'll destroy us.

You have a weird, but interessant point of view !

posted by Illuminati-NWO

Tell me honestly because I would like to know, what is best 100,000 innocent lives lost in carpet bombing and 1,000,000 possible new terrorists coming to the states wreaking havoc on innocent Americans or spending all that money on humanitarian aid???

A: Read above, you'll have my answer.

posted by Illuminati-NWO

Do you know why they do not spend this money on aid, because Bush and his government doesn't give a rats ass about people, they only care about filling their pockets.

A : It's not like these evils country. Who just want to help their peoples. That's why they have so many weapons. It's only to defends themselves against the big bad wolf....The Occident of course. This so blood-thirsty Occident.

posted by Illuminati-NWO

Agression invokes agression, its the evergoing vicious circle!!!

A :Sure. ANd the Occident have, of course, to do the first step. It's not these dictatoships who have to do the first step.

Why will they do it anyway ? They just want peace.....

posted by Illuminati-NWO

And that is just what the US wants, this circle is what brings possibilities, people in fear are people that can be controlled so much more easily, more terrorist attacks is what the US wants and provokes because think of all this money Bush and his administration is making from it.

A: Yeah sure. Our gov don't care about us.
Look how we have to live. We have an horrible live. It's another fact: In China, Irak, Iran and so on....peoples have a great live, cuz their gov just want to see them happy, with a brightfull live.

posted by Illuminati-NWO

If you really really think this is the quest for peace then I can honestly say that I am talking to the dumbest # on this planet.

A: Wait man, don't speak about you like this.


posted by Illuminati-NWO

Let me explain to you one of the ways a government pushes people to get support for what they want done(sorry that you are not smart enough to figure this out yourself, lots of fools in this world I am sad to say).

Okay here it goes,

Governments manipulate the way the masses think and feel, so we live our lives and see the world in the way the evil government want us to. For instance, the most powerful of the manipulation techniques is one I call [B]Problem-Reaction-Solution[/B]. It works like this:

You want to introduce something you know the people won't like.This may be more power to the police, a further erosion of basic freedoms, even a war. You know that if you offer these policies openly the people will react against them. So you first create a [B]PROBLEM[/B], a rising crime rate, more violence, a terrorist bomb, a government collapse, or you get one of your governmentfunded puppets like Saddam Hussein/Bin Ladin to go to war.

A :Thanks man, I didn't know it. Gee, you're really a smart guy. Where did you learn it ? On www.rense.com I bet...Right ? And of course, the ennemy of the USA are not using such tricks. Nooooooooo, it's ONLY the USA who are using them. I know what is propaganda man. I've a TV set 2. !!!

posted by Illuminati-NWO

You make sure someone else is blamed for this problem and not you, the real people behind it all. So you create a "patsy", as they call them in America, a Timothy McVeigh or a Lee Harvey Oswald. You then use your media to tell people what they should think about your manufactured event and who they should blame for it. This brings us to stage two, the [B]REACTION[/B] from the people - "This can't go on what are [B]THEY[/B] going to do about it?"

A: One more time, read above for my answer !

posted by Illuminati-NWO

This allows [B]THEY[B] to then openly offer the [B]SOLUTION[B] to the problems they have created - new legislation which advances their agenda of centralisation of global power or the erosion of more basic freedoms. This technique is being used all the time on the human mind and emotions, not least with the stream of mind-contolled youngsters and adults who go crazy with guns around the world and immediately prompt gun control laws or when looking at 9/11 were people are actually begging to be stripped from their civil rights.

A : Huuuum...yeah, I know. I'm with you this time. I think like you. But NOT on everything, ok ? Just on this statement !!!


posted by Illuminati-NWO

So you see Phoenix, you have alot to learn and as you so nicely state it, not everything is black and white, but believe me everything that I see is in full colour, now its up to you to not say man is this guy full of # but try and see where I am coming from.

A : Me 2, I've a full colored pics of the situation. But ours colors are differents, like our point of view. 4 me, it's only communists propaganda. BS done by the ennemy of the freedom & the free speech.

posted by Illuminati-NWO

Does this socalled coward really have a point.

A : Just one, it's no so bad after all.

posted by Illuminati-NWO

What you call a coward I call someone free of mind not bound to silly perceptions that have been slammed into my mind by the ever ongoing propaganda machine.

A : Are really really sure that you're not brainwashed ? I don't think so...You are brainwashed by leftists propaganda.

There is ONLY one evil nation on Earth, and of course, it's the USA, and, in a general way, the Occident .

posted by Illuminati-NWO

You are very subsceptible and that is sad, people like you is what the Bush government likes and its people like you that are willing to die for someone who doesn't give a rats ass about you.

A : Right. I'm subsceptible. Really aggressive also. I'm not a lamb or a sheep, it's clear. And when I see peoples who want to sold MY freedom, yes, I'm starting to be very crazy and ready to fight !

posted by Illuminati-NWO

REMEMBER THIS VERY WELL, Bush is the guy that is the real coward, he went AWOL during 'Nam just because he was scared, and now he is willing to send soldiers to find an early grave. Fighting himself ooooh no, sending people to fight, YES PLEASE!!!!!

A : I don't know. I was not with him. May be you right, may be not. Gimme some proofs.

posted by Illuminati-NWO

IF YOU ARE NOT WITH US, YOU ARE AGAINST US and you will be dealt with accordingly. IF YOU GET IN OUR WAY YOU ARE IRRELEVANT and you will be dealt with!!!! BUSH'S OWN WORDS!!!!!! THE WORDS OF A MADMAN!!!

A : Huuum, I like these words. If you're not with us, it means that you're against us.My way of thinking !

Ok, now, my turn.

Why don't you go in North-Korea, China, Iran, Irak , Cuba or in another dictatorship, just to trying to expose your case, like you're doing it here ? Huuum ? Why not ? Any fears may be ? tssss....tsssss.... fear of what my friend ?

Oh yes I know. You're a coward. You can just shout in Occident, where you know that you can do it without being kill, or sending in jail, or in a goulag, or why not, in a Lao Gai..... tssss... tssss.... I told you man, you' re just a #ing coward. Your post was the ultimate proof.

Want to show me that I'm wrong ? Ok, just go there, China, NK, where you want.....Do your speach and come back home safely....Then, MAY BE, I'll try to heard & understand you. Until this day, do you know what ? F.U.C.K Y.O.U D.E.E.P.L.Y !!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 01:28 PM
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Read this on another site. The guy is a blow hard.Seems to forget everything the U.S has done.

Think I'll go to Burger King and eat a whopper now.



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 02:15 PM
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I admire you are keeping reasonably calm under this phoenix but you really have no clue whats going on in the deepest pits of the US government.

You really think you have freedoms, then visit Europe some time and you will know what real freedom is like. I have traversed between US and Europe quite a few times and I must say the US is lawcrazy, you can get nailed for the most petty # while in Europe cops treat you with respect, most people would then say yeah but in Europe the crimerate must be higher, well wrong again. Europe has a very low crime rate and compared to the states the difference is so phenomenal it ain't real anymore.

You have obviously only lived in the states and you cannot see what is wrong in the US. Well I can. I am not justifying Saddam or any other tyrant running amok but compare politicians in Europe with ones in the US and you will know who the freaks of nature really are.

I also practice law and I know the US law by heart, as do I know the European laws and when I put these next to one another I again get smacked in the head and get a huge wake up call.

Phoenix, I feel you are just a little kid, not much older then 16 who really has no clue what he is talking about, you think you are free but actually you are not, you are bound by laws.

I suggest you come back in 10 years from now after you have investigated some more. You are talking like someone who has no background on any of the topics you raise, I can debunk every single one of your statements and prove without a shadow of a doubt that you are wrong in just about everything you say.

I am not even going to bother, I feel like talking to an illiterate and no matter what I explain you will only believe in your preconceived notions.

And Nyeff, I forget what the US has done, they did nothing if you are referring to WWII, the war was allready won in 1945, only thing the US did was land on the beaches of France, Hitler was defeated way before that, if you think the entire war depended on OHAMA beach then you are dearly mistaken, not believing me is questioning history itself just ask the British who gallantly crushed the German airforce, just ask the French, Belgian and british ground troops who did all the hard work. But oooh offcourse US has liberated Europe because it gets shown in all the movies what a bunch of nonsense. Just go watch another western and feel good about yourself, pat yourself on the back for your amazing knowledge of history.

I feel like the world is populated by retards and I am the odd one out, so sad, I am really starting to believe that Americans have the poorest education on this planet and just twist all the facts and make up history themselves, everything that does not suit US mainstream gets twisted.

Which brings me to the following point, how come in the US kids of ages 14,15,16 get tought simple mathematics of square root, division and adding while these same kids in Europe get tought derivitives, logarithms, and probable chance maths, how come in the US kids get tought 1 language and the same kids in Europe get tought 3-4 different languages, how come in the US kids get tought only US history and near nothing of foreign history while EU kids get tought the history of many countries, I can keep going like this and I know I am right, I have American family and more then often have I wondered why the educational system is so #ed up in the states but now I know why.

DUMBER PEOPLE ARE SO MUCH MORE EASY TO CONTROL and they do not question their government. And sadly this is just shining off of this topic, every single thought I had is being justified here and now.

My sister in law who lives in Massechusetts is furious because she cannot send her kids to a proper college, I asked her what was up and then I heard this sad story. If you want a good education in the US you must be willing to pay 10,000 to 30,000 dollar a year, while kids in Europe can get a far far better education for only 450$ a year. No single school in the US can beat a European school in terms of learning experience and sheer volume of tutoring. And that only for 450$, every kid that wants a proper education can get one, so why is this in the states only for the real elite rich kids, look at the reason above!!

Try to refute all of this and I will point you to the people of "THE INTERNATIONAL QUIZ", what these people do is organize international quiz events between schools in the US and Europe. I am sure you have never heard of them and wanna know why??? Because US has never ever one a single one of these events, its not something to go brag about, scores are so much apart that I really am grounded to say that US is creating dumb kids.

Why don't you come to Europe and I will pitch a 14 year old against you, and we will see who gets the most questions right.

Sorry mate, educate yourself before you engage in a discussion with me. If you want we can discuss this further in German, French, or Dutch, for me its all the same.

I am not trying to offend any fellow Americans with this topic but its the sad truth, I am living on and off between US and Europe and once you have tasted real life you will never want to go back, right now my kids are enjoying a proper European education, with this one can accomplish anything in the US. No wonder that all American companies want to hire people who have had a European education, my nephew alone makes 90,000$ a year and he has studied engineering right here in Europe, now he pendels on and off between Europe and the states.



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 03:22 PM
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We are all bound by laws.At least if you live in a society.You seem to forgot that the U.S. has lead the in medicene tech,trade and I can go on.Everytime there is a disaster or famine or something goes wrong somewhere in the world they come to the U.S. for help.Can,t say that too many countries have ever come to our aid.And yes without the help of the U.S. in WW2 England would be speaking German.Yes you can pick on our government,but there is no perfect government anywhere.I have read British papers there is crime,political corruption,crooked police and so forth.America also has the freest borders in the world,even after 9/11.Yep America is a terrible place to live,filled with nothing but fat lazy slobs.Give me a break.



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 06:09 PM
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I don't know if you realize it but only 7% of the US population is on health insurance!!!! Thats 7% out of roughly 300 million people!!!

So what good does your leading edge medicinal technology amount to if you cannot benefit from it(if you choose to benefit from it you will know where you money is going for the rest of your life if you have no health insurance)???? In europe I can rest on both ears knowing that if I get a serious illness our healthcare will take care of me, practically free of charge. In Europe 95% of the people are on health insurance, how's that for facts nyeff. Look it up and dare to prove me wrong I really dare you.

Also another fact worth mentioning about your socalled land of the free, in the US 42% of all the wealth is in the hands of one-half percent of the richest families(about 400 people), all the rest of the people are just coming by, others are into their ears in debt due to heavy taxes, health care fees, mortgages, ....... Do not go pointing fingers at politicians and movie stars and engineers who have fat paychecks and bla bla bla, I am talking about the great majority of the people here!!! Our country gives corporate managers vast constitutional protections. In the US massive corporations write your laws, define your elections, invade your schools, mock family values, vacuum your communities, decree what's in your air, water, soil, food and children. Your great economy is falling down and its these giant conglomerates that are pulling their necks in and keep this wealth tightly hidden in foreign bank accounts, I'm thinking of Enron, worldcom, Xerox and many others who have cost your economy billions and billions of dollars. If you are not good at economy you will fail to see the consequences for the US citizens but believe me they are immense. You know an economy falling will allways take money out of the places it can take the money the easiest, and I think you know where much of this debtmoney is going to have to come from........ yes 10 outta 10 you guessed it WE THE PEOPLE. Its the old cliche, the rich get richer while the poor are getting poorer, this has never meant as much as it does now and in the coming years.
Great things will happen in the US and take my words for it, none of them will be good. What all these wars are doing is divert your attention to the true atrocities going on right under our noses, the American people are digging their own graves, putting power into the hands of a man(government) who cannot handle power, a man who has lied and cheated his way through his career to finally end up unjustly on his chair of extreme power. Now still his lies continue, eventhough people are going on the streets by the masses protesting. I allways learned that the power is to the people and what we the people say will have to be listened to, atleast thats what it says in that worthless piece of paper called THE CONSTITUTION. I can highly recommend all of you read this to see what I am talking about, as far as I am concerned(and I'm sure many more)the constitution is void, it lost its meaning 15 years ago.

Read our constitution and tell me where I am wrong in the below written words, please point out the error of my ways,

The President, and indeed the entire government, are merely custodians of the nation, temporary ones, who serve the nation only with the permission of the people. Like the custodian of a factory, the custodians of the nation are answerable to and must follow the wishes of the owner of the establishment, which in the case of the nation is the entire people. If a custodian of a factory does not follow the wishes of the owner, that custodian must be fired. If the custodian of the nation does not follow the wishes of the owners, that custodian must be fired. The ownership of the nation is clearly set forth in the preamble to the Constitution in those three words written larger than the rest, "We The People." The right of all people everywhere to remove a custodian which has become destructive of the wishes of the nation's owners is enshrined in the Declaration of Independence where it clearly states, "That whenever any government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government..." It therefore follows that We The People not only have a right to question the commander in chief and the government, we have a moral obligation to do so at all times. As part of the task of keeping control over our national custodians, those custodians are OBLIGATED to keep their employers, the people, fully informed as to their actions. The government does not have a right to conceal information from the people. The government does not have the right to lie to the people. The Constitution does not expressly grant the government the right to lie to and conceal facts from the people. When the government engages in such actions, whether it be concealment of energy policy meeting documents or lies created to manufacture consent for a war, the public MUST question the commander in chief and the government about what they are doing, and if necessary, replace the misbehaving custodians of our nation. The Constitution is the original "Contract with America". The government may not set it aside at whim, to allow itself to lie to and conceal facts form the owners of the nation and get them into a war, no more than the factory custodian can change the contract under which he was hired to allow himself to do things the owners of the factory do not approve of. To do so is grounds for immediate termination of the custodian, whether for factory or for nation. Who am I to question the commander in chief? I'm one of his 266 million bosses, and I don't like the job he is doing with my nation.
Should you not care what precedents he is setting for your children and your childrens children.

Like I said, there are so many narrowminded people in the states it is mindnumbing, if this blind devotion to the flag does not cease we will indeed be no better then any other commie regime cause thats where we are headed. Keep believing every single word on the news, please stop thinking for yourself and please yes please stick with your government because any contradicting views are un-american and clearly terrorist behaviour.

[Edited on 23-10-2002 by Illuminati-NWO]



posted on Oct, 23 2002 @ 06:56 AM
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7%? That seems extremely low! Are you sure about that? Where did you get that info? I just don't think you're correct.
My wife has a Canadian friend who just had a baby. When she went to deliver it was b.y.o.d (bring your own diapers).

You probably think Cuba has a good health care system (j/k). Why was Hillary's plan to socialize medicine rejected by nearly everyone but her?

I can sort of see your point but how free is someone elsewhere? China? N. Korea? name a ME dictatorship and tell me how free they are? How about most of Europe where they pay 1/2 roughly into taxes - is that freedom?



posted on Oct, 23 2002 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by Bob88
How about most of Europe where they pay 1/2 roughly into taxes - is that freedom?


Well, given the fact that WE are looking at decreased health coverage while enduring premium hikes upward of 30%, and given the fact that prescription drugs are on the same vector - with generics also being controlled, how much extra of your discretionary income do you think you'll be paying when you're healthy? And, when you're sick?
If you're Republican, which I know you are Bob, you are supporting an administration that has shown proof positive, through their multi billion dollar corporate welfare support of the Insurance and Pharma Industries, that they are opposed to patient advocacy groups and agendas.
Given the fact of radical pro-corporate intiatives that are policy under Bush ( such as repeal of clean water & air restriction, food inspections standards repealed and vehicle saftey standards softened), YOU WILL be spending more time at the doctor & the hospital. Hope you have the funds!



posted on Oct, 23 2002 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by Bob88
7%? That seems extremely low! Are you sure about that? Where did you get that info? I just don't think you're correct.
My wife has a Canadian friend who just had a baby. When she went to deliver it was b.y.o.d (bring your own diapers).

You probably think Cuba has a good health care system (j/k). Why was Hillary's plan to socialize medicine rejected by nearly everyone but her?

I can sort of see your point but how free is someone elsewhere? China? N. Korea? name a ME dictatorship and tell me how free they are? How about most of Europe where they pay 1/2 roughly into taxes - is that freedom?



I got that info from official reports a while ago, I will see if I can dig up that info again.
And as for EU citizens paying half in taxes, there you are wrong again, I now live in Europe and taxes is about 30% of your total income, but with these taxes that I have to pay I cover my health insurance, my pension and God knows what else. So all in all its a very good deal, and if you read my post again, I was only talking about a comparison between US and EU and how the differences are phenomenal Bob. And if we can have this much freedom then I do not know why America is so restricted and lawcrazy. Just come and live here and you will see the light I can promise you that.

Cops are friendly, I can drink wherever I want, I do not have to worry about shootings since stuff like this only happens once every 10 years or so, less polution, .......



posted on Oct, 23 2002 @ 10:19 AM
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If you have a job you can get healthcare.I would like to now were you got 7% from.Everybody has some kind of coverage that I know.My daughter cost a whpping 15$through our healthcare plan.And the wealth is spread unevenly through out the world.The rich are an elite few.I'd be willing to Saddam is the only rich man in Iraq.Since I have a job save my money and don't do stupid things with I'am not doing all that bad either.Most poor people have something in commen,they don't want to work,they want handouts or something for nothing.Please feed me, please pay for my children and so on.And how pays for those people?We do,with our tax money.
I do not have blind devotion to the flag,but I know I have it better than most people around the world.I can do what I want,when I want.And I never said anything about this article being terrorist behavior.We have freedom of speech here,if someone wants to write an article like this,that is fine with me.Just don't expect me to by such a narrow minded view of America.



posted on Oct, 23 2002 @ 10:26 AM
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where in Europe do you live Illuminati-NWO?





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