Why do Christians have a problem with Evolution?

Originally posted by Agentdemon

Nothing in science is 100% factual or "proven". It's all made up of theories which when demonstrated consistently become law( ie laws of physics). Did you know that Gravity is a theory? or cell theory?

It's not about accepting biological evolution as if it was some religious idea. It's about reason, logic and using concrete methods of discovery.

Yes true, but there is not much logic in thinking that fish came out of the water...some grew feather, others fur, some grew wings, others grew paws... and thast why its a theroy , that can't be proven. sure there is EVOLUTION whithin species... all species are evolving whithin themselves... and even creating new species throu cross-breathing.

But a species evolving into another... that's a big stretch. at least in my op.

On the other end, i do believe that the first pages of Genesis do describe some kind of event of some sort of evolvement... but again..thats my op.

Originally posted by BaastetNoir

Originally posted by Agentdemon

Nothing in science is 100% factual or "proven". It's all made up of theories which when demonstrated consistently become law( ie laws of physics). Did you know that Gravity is a theory? or cell theory?

It's not about accepting biological evolution as if it was some religious idea. It's about reason, logic and using concrete methods of discovery.

Yes true, but there is not much logic in thinking that fish came out of the water...some grew feather, others fur, some grew wings, others grew paws... and thast why its a theroy , that can't be proven. sure there is EVOLUTION whithin species... all species are evolving whithin themselves... and even creating new species throu cross-breathing.

But a species evolving into another... that's a big stretch. at least in my op.

On the other end, i do believe that the first pages of Genesis do describe some kind of event of some sort of evolvement... but again..thats my op.

So...

Evolution has not been proven but Christianity has? Thanks, for this...



First good laugh of the day, I appreciate that. No one is saying evolution is proven; I think you need to learn a little more about science. But, ALL Christians I've talked to say their religion HAS been proven. Sorry, but a religion whose book talks about giants, zombies, magic tricks, stopping the sun (that one always kills me), stars falling to Earth, demon possession, god possession, people talking to flaming bushes and people walking into furnaces and coming out crisp-free sounds like a fairy tale to me. And that's PROVEN?

Why people prefer to believe what people believed TWO THOUSAND years ago instead of what people belief now, with EVIDENCE to back it up, is beyond me... :shk:

Originally posted by truthseeka

So...

Evolution has not been proven but Christianity has? Thanks, for this...

I would assume that once your primary language is English you would be able to understand it better. I think you can't tho...

Where did I say Christianity was prooven ? Neither that was my point.

All I said is Give me an exmaple of ONE religion as where their believers don't think their diety's cretaed them and the world.

There is none. All religions on this Planete believ that "something" created the world. So why only pick on the Christians ? I tell you why...Because Christians don't blow themselves up in coffee stores, or riott in the streets or fly plains against building.. thats why.

The usual "gang-up" againts Christians and their beliefs is the typical "hig-school buly" mentality... lets "gang-up" on the geeks, cause they won't do much back.

Religions are above all a matter of Faith, and for your information there are alot more accounts of "mysteryous" situations that science can't explain than not. Such as the so called "miracles".

So instead of bashing God, maybe you should considre God... and think outside of your box... and I'm not even a Christian.

The thing is the way that ppl are vicious against Christianity, i'm starting to think there must be some truth to it, or ppl wouldnt care about bashing it so much.

i always thought that evolution was part of "gods" will.

[edit on 24-4-2006 by Funkydung]

And there's next to no logic in thinking that some unseen magical entity who just happens to be a 'father figure' to it's follower's created everything. There's no logic in thinking any one particular belief system is the one true belief system when all claim they are the one true system. There's not much logic or thought put behind saying "God did it".

We may not have every nitpicking answer to evolution, but so far nearly everything predicted by and discovered for it has given it alot of possibility of being a correct theory.

Christians aren't the only one's being "ganged up on". Yes it is the most talked about belief system, but it's also the most popular belief system. Come's with the territory.

I believe God knows mankind can not triumph over evil without the help of his infinite mind. But, in his love, he freed us to follow our own paths to salvation or destruction.

Even evolution is driven by God's infinite mind.

This is an interesting topic, and one that I would love to comment on. Being a Christian, though not a fanatic, I can state that I believe both to be true. Just because God created the world and universe, does not mean that it has to be miraculous and scientifically unexplainable. Christians say God created man and earth, Evolutionists say that everything was created in a Big Bang. Who's to say that the Big Bang was not initiated by God in order to create the universe? Perhaps God cannot just "poof" and make a world. It actually seems to follow a little better that if there is an allpowerful and supernatural father of everything, that he/she/it would have to VALIDATE what was being created with science. After all, I think even for God it would be a feat to create something that could last for "all eternity" and not have a feasible explaination behind it. The Bible says that man was created in God's image. That does not mean that "poof", here we were as fully evolved men and women. Perhaps, in order to make man in the image of God, man would first have to start off as an ape, and then EVOLVE to the point of being in the image of God. Following this theory further for all of you hardcore Christians, we could even go as far as to say that we are STILL NOT IN GOD'S IMAGE, and yet have a few thousand years of evolving to do before we get there. Maybe, God was lonely, and wanted other beings that could be just like him, infinate powers and all, but knew that, like any project, good results would take time. Look at this from a different perspective for a moment. If you had all the time of eternity, would waiting a few millenia for an intended result really be that big of a deal? My final point, is that there really are an infinate number of possibilities for the arguments of Creation versus Evolution, but it is just as possible, if not more probable, that the two are one in the same. Just some food for thought.

So I was rummaging around the site, and got caught up with a discussion on a search in Africa for a Dinosaur.

In it was found this link

www.s8int.com...

I saw this photo, and read the Text. I sent it to a friend, who has a Show On Friday Evenings, who then forwardered to Dr Bill Gibbon's who is a researcher on Dinosaurs.

Once the Archives are update, look for Dinosaur Hunter #9. It should be up later this week. It was an interesting to show say the least.

Anyways, I then must ask, what happened to Evolution? If this creature, presumed to be extinct from our Ancient Past, is alive, why is it not showing any Evolution from the Fossil Records of Old? No evidence of any change in Millions of Years.

Anyways, the following link will take you to an Audio page. As noted, it will be posted as The Dinosaur Hunter #9. (Sometime before Thursday or Friday this coming week).

www.richardsyrett.com...

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Prot0n
And there's next to no logic in thinking that some unseen magical entity who just happens to be a 'father figure' to it's follower's created everything.

imo the bible tells more than ppl want to believ... the word " creation" to me is eqaul to "hybrids". but thast just me.

There's no logic in thinking any one particular belief system is the one true belief system when all claim they are the one true system. There's not much logic or thought put behind saying "God did it".

Its a question of faith... Evolution is a REligion as well... the REligion of "NO GOD".

We may not have every nitpicking answer to evolution, but so far nearly everything predicted by and discovered for it has given it alot of possibility of being a correct theory.

not rally... there is evidence of Evoultion whithing the same species, whcih is only "normal" once all species need to adapt. But i'm still waiting for evidence of "inter- species" evolution, and i dont mean cross-breeding.

Christians aren't the only one's being "ganged up on". Yes it is the most talked about belief system, but it's also the most popular belief system. Come's with the territory.

Christianity may have been popular a couple of decades ago, but its far from beeing it now... if you take a look at the USA, Christianity is not the majority's religion anymore (that is, if it ever was)

Originally posted by BaastetNoir
Its a question of faith... Evolution is a REligion as well... the REligion of "NO GOD".

You make two mistakes here;

1. There are christians (and people of other faiths) who accept the validity of ToE, therefore ToE does not equal athiesm.

2. How can a scientific theory be a 'religion'. If you want to suggest this, the definition of religion is meaningless. Athiesm is not a religion either - as I read elsewhere, "if athiesm is a religion, then 'off' is a TV station". Athiesm/ToE must be the only religion that is rejected by its members. It has no rituals, no omnipotent being, does not explain 'ultimate reality' etc. How could a person hold two religions (i.e. be a christian and be a religous 'evolutionist').

edit: actually three if we include 'question of faith'. ToE does have evidence, however much you may believe this to not be true.



[edit on 24-4-2006 by melatonin]

My take on the evo/Bib controversary:

There is no room for evolution in Bib circles. Six days o'creation, Adam & Eve, some tempting fruity treats. BAM! Pandora's box is opened.

The Biblical types don't accept evo because there's no evo in the Bible. That's the only way I can explain it.

It's a pretty focused little group and they seem to like it that way. Personally, I couldn't live that way, so they're welcome to it.

The Bible is imaginative, that's for sure, but I'd rather speculate about why we have three major racial groups and how the three became so diverse in appearance. The discussions are pretty entertaining and you can practice all kinds of vices while you're arguing without worrying about going to hell.

Thank you, God. Beer is a g o o d thing.

Originally posted by The Norm
I believe God knows mankind can not triumph over evil without the help of his infinite mind. But, in his love, he freed us to follow our own paths to salvation or destruction.

Even evolution is driven by God's infinite mind.

"Evil" is the result of socities failure to understand and prevent violence.

As one who has spent about half my life believing each side of this issue, I will say 1st, that this is an important issue as what you believe about how you came to be has a big impact on your thinking and your behaviour. If you accept God as your creator (a loving, caring one by the way), then you will naturally follow Him, obey His commands, and accept His word as truth.
At this point I will agree that there is much controversy over the details, but this is the basic idea. A christian's basic problem with evolution is it is generally used to deny God. There are some that make a case for God using evolution to create us, but it not supportable by my study of scripture. I don't think you can prove either evolution or creation is true. But you can prove that the "theory of evolution" doesn't jive with the Bible and therefore is denial of faith to someone following God.
Now, there are a lot of things in nature that God does not clue us in on through scripture and science has filled in a lot of the blanks about, but my opinion is that the "theory of evolution" is not only insupportable in scripture, it is also largly incorrect by scientific standards. Most subjects in science hold firm to the standards of the scientific method, but when you get into the subject of evolution, I've never seen so much "maybe this", "we think that", "studies support', unproven assumptions, and untested hypothesis.
Personally, I don't find anything in the natural world that a Creator of all things couldn't have done, whereas I find many many things that the "theory of evolution" can't explain. The deciding factor for me was the principle of entropy where the universe must degrade from order to disorder. Any process that takes millions of years to create higher forms of life will be overcome by the much more powerful murphy's law of destruction.

2. I don't think christians feel superior to others (I know a lot of religions do). Being christian mean humbling yourself, accepting your faults and submitting to God. They value themselves and others only because God so loves them ... But I notice that many scientists put themselves on a pretty lofty platform. They've got it all figured out and the poor christians are just "commoners" as one forum member here says in his signature.

3. There IS a lot of error in the history of religions. A lot of it still goes on. For instance, did you know that there is no scriptural basis for going to church on Sunday? The religionists changed that back in the 4th century. But they all still do it. Oh - there is such a strong desire in the human heart to do what we want to do. We don't want to do what the Creator commands (give to others more than to ourselves), and we want some kind of plausble theory to excuse us.
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:"
The weekly cycle is a memorial of creation.

ps. Did you see the NOVA program last week that explained the new research about the epi-genome? How the cellular processes are so much incedibly more complex than we ever thought. That the epi-genome manages the DNA so that the appropriate parts of it are used depending on what type of cell it is and what the environmental constraints are etc, etc. How different traits can manifest under different conditions, and how it might not take so long to change between them.

[FYI I was brought up in a Christian family, but I walked away from the bible and churches. When I was old enough to see and realized that the bible and the churches were self righteous and hypocritical, I thought for myself and felt that spiritualism WITHOUT influence of ancient religious opinions, is best. It doesn't have rules and regs, and it's naturally known what's wrong and right.]

As much as I know this is my reasoning for why Christians and other belief systems have a problem with evolution:

It takes away the mystical attributes that make the stories a couldn't-put-it down book. Even as a species in this age, when people come across a book or movie that is mystical and magic, we're almost drawn to it like a moth to a flame [ex. Harry Potter].IMHO people want that magic and mysticism because it is not of our time. They want to keep the old ways just so they don't disappear as time goes on.But we all know, that the longer something is around, the more it changes to suit the times.Down the grapevine, and into history as fact.

Accepting evolution means to them(those who are fanatic believers) that believe the bible is literal in every sense of the word, isn't exactly as it says. But if it is literal, than if someones got a log in their eye, I should tell them "Sorry can't help, I've got this little tiny piece of wood in my eye and my religious belief says to keep trying to get mine out and when I do THEN I can assist you" or if people who live and glass houses shouldn't throw stones...nice, I live in a wooden house so I can throw as many as I want! It's not literal, it can't be in the sense of such things as the previous statement.

They consider the belief of evolution as heresy.And all through Christianity's history almost, those who were considered heretics and blasphemers we're pretty much murder and villages of people slaughtered. And that kind of influence and fear sinks in deep to some, and continues to be pushed hard from generation and generation.

We have an organ that does nothing, the appendix of course. If it's there...what doesn't it do anything?If God made people perfect in every way why would he make man with an organ that he doesn't need? He wouldn't, that's for the most part idiotic as well as useless. It did have a purpose, but because nobody knew what it was for, or were intelligent enough to write what it was for, it remains a mystery.

An image is appearance, something you see with your eyes. Not mentally, morally, or spiritually. IF we are in his image, so seeing him would not change us, hurt us, or kill us at all. If it did than we would be able to look in a mirror, and bad things would happen. Which is the opposite of what God in the New Testament is pushed to be. Bad things happen when seeing the creator? Just a "You can't see him because you can't handle it" theme so people don't push to want to see it and they don't question that the God/Goddess(s/es) exist.

If after all that happened, and human beings are supposed to CHOOSE to love God and worship the Christian God by their own wants...Than forcefully pushing your child from an early age to go to church and follow the bible is brainwashing and falsified love for Him. The younger years and teenage years, is when we can be easily influenced. By forcing them to follow and not letting them choose when they are old enough to decide on what they want, is wrong. IMHO I think the bible stories, like a lot of people think, is a guideline NOT literal fact. And smart people used those beliefs to their advantage to become controllers(kings, queens, and pharaohs were believed to be Gods and Goddesses manifested in the flesh).But as always the followers pick and choose what they want to be true or not true. Some still believe the universe is only 6000 years old...it's sad.

If we don't question, and search for other answers we'll never advance as a race.We'd still be in mud huts giving daughters as payment for buying land.

Since we discovered the possibility that evolution is going on should christians not also believe that it is part of God's plan?
I come from a varied religious background heavily influenced by christian and pagan beliefs. Several times I've had discussions with religious leaders of various groups about this topic. This is my idea;
If you believe that God created everything and He rested on the seventh day (however you interpret that) what did God do after that? Stop? I don't think so and see no reason to believe otherwise. I believe that God continues to create and that is evolution, evidence of God being active in creation to this date. Why not? On a lighter note to my fellow religious leaders I added; since when does a man ever create something in his workshop and NOT continue to tinker with it? :-)