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Why do Christians have a problem with Evolution?

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posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 11:39 AM
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First off: I believe the Bible to be the Word of God.

Second off: I also believe the Bible to be a book that has been translated across four very different languages. Go type in "And the Word was with God. And the Word was God" in babelfish.com and translate it from English to Hebrew to Greek to Latin and back to English.

Third off: the Bible Creation story is ambiguous.

It was considered heresy and a threat to the Church when Copernicus, Galileo and Kelper suggested that the galaxy is heliocentric and not geocentric. At the time, the current understanding of the Biblical Creation Story was that the Earth was the center of everything. To say that the Earth revolved around the Sun was blasphemy. It took a long time for religious leaders to accept it.

It was just as bad that Kepler and Newton suggested that the planets' orbitals were not perfectly circular, but more elliptical. This was blasphemy itself because non-circular motion suggested imperfection in God.

It is widely accepted that the Seven Days of the Creation were seven periods of undetermined time. There were periods of the Dispersal of Matter, the Grouping of Matter, the Forming of an Environment, the Growth of Plants, the Growth of Creatures in the Sea, followed by Creatures on the Land. Humans came last.

The story of the Universe, formation of the Earth, and the Evolution of life follows this closely. If evolution is the way that God decided to create us, then so be it. If we just sort of popped into existance, well that's fine too.

Remember that the word "create" from the Bible is actually translated from the Hebrew word "organize." The world was Organized from particles from the Big Bang. Man was Organized from existing creatures.

This is not what I think shoud be taught in schools. Let the schools teach biology and evolution in their pure forms, NOT Intelligent Design. If you learn nothing else from your biology class except to look at something, notice something about it, and ask yourself why it is, and then try to figure out the answer... your teacher has done more good than anyone can ever tell. God GAVE us the ability to reason and use logic. Don't waste it.

My freshman (college) biology professor wrote a chemical equation on the board describing the conversion of ethyl alcohol to water:

CH3CH2OH ---x---> H2O

He put an X through the arrow to show that this is not a chemical reaction. He said that miracles are one-time occurrences that cannot be repeated. They can't be proven, and they can't be disclaimed. He also said that the theory of evolution is not an attack on religion - it is just observations of people who try to make sense of the world around them with the information they have available.

Okay, I'm getting off my soap box.




posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by Ralph_The_Wonder_Llama
Second off: I also believe the Bible to be a book that has been translated across four very different languages. Go type in "And the Word was with God. And the Word was God" in babelfish.com and translate it from English to Hebrew to Greek to Latin and back to English.


Dosen't have Hebrew translation on that site. Or Latin by the looks of it?



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 11:02 PM
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I agree whole heartedly. Many christians, even in the 21st century, still have their heads buried in the sand. I was pretty much forced to go to church and listen to the scare tactics from the "true believers" every week. Now that I'm an adult and choose not to go to church, and choose to think for myself, I think I'm a better christian. God made our minds to better understand the true complexity of his design. Science and religion CAN go hand in hand if you don't allow one to overpower the other.

The fact that the Bible has been translated and re-translated is a point that many christian choose to gloss over, but it's a very important fact. I, as a english speaking man have no idea what I am missing from the Bible I can buy at Wal-Mart! I happen to think even the Bible in it original form is probably missing something. There are portions that were written by men interprating dream images that they could never understand. Hell, modern man probably couldn't understand some of the things those men saw when they closed their eyes at night.



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 01:19 AM
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evolution is not true. if you truly believe the bible as the word of God, why dont you just believe all that it says? and evolution is a religion not science. in order to be science it has to be fact. evolution is NOT fact.



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by the_blue_sky11
evolution is not true. if you truly believe the bible as the word of God, why dont you just believe all that it says? and evolution is a religion not science. in order to be science it has to be fact. evolution is NOT fact.

Evolution is a working hypothesis. It's being proved even as we speak, it's being tested, evaluated, can I say proved again? Why should we believe the bible? This is the same book that can be used to condone slavery and which says that women who are having a period are unclean. How vile. We needed the bible in the past, when we relied on pointy bits of metal and ate rats on a stick. We should be past this point by now.
Why do christians have a problem with evolution? most don't, it's mainly the fanatics that do. And the evangelists whose power is built on people believing everything they say. The next time I go to the States I'm buying a 12-bore and going hunting for Robertsons!



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 07:29 AM
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I see you chose the red pill, there's no way back now.



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 09:24 AM
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I think some Christians have a problem with evolution because their bible says man was created in God's image; and how can God be perfect if He is evolving?



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 10:50 AM
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I am a Christian and believe in Evolution there are too many facts to make denying it sensible. And really what does it matter how we came to be? Whether by evolution or God creating the world in 6 days and resting on the 7th it is still a miracle of creation that we are here.



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 12:30 PM
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originally posted by: the_blue_sky11

evolution is not true. if you truly believe the bible as the word of God, why dont you just believe all that it says? and evolution is a religion not science. in order to be science it has to be fact. evolution is NOT fact.


I would recommend reading this page. The author is Christian and an evolutionist... the two are not mutually exclusive. How I Understand Genesis

Some quotes from that page -

"If you read it without pre-suppositions..."

It's often claimed that if one reads the Creation accounts in Genesis without any 'evolutionist presupposition', then the narrativess clearly read as historical accounts. It is only after Darwin, claim the critics, that people started to treat them as anything else. Were this true, it might be a serious charge. However, it is not. Consider the following quotation:

In the beginning were created only germs or causes of the forms of life which were afterwards to be developed in gradual course.

Who said this? Richard Dawkins? Kenneth Miller? Aldous Huxley? No. It was Saint Augustine.
Does this sound like something he would say if he thought the Genesis accounts were literally true? I rather think not. In fact, as Russell Stannard points out in Science and the Renewal of Belief (SCM Press, London, 1982), it was the 'more Biblical than thou' bickering between the Reformers and the Catholic church during the sixteenth century that gave rise to literalism.


And this:

What's it really mean then?

So if the book of Genesis doesn't mean the world was made in six days a few thousand years ago, what does it mean?

A caveat. I'm going to lean pretty heavily on quotations here. This is because this stuff, despite the protestations of some creationists, is well established theology throughout mainstream Christianity. It is not something I'm making up because I 'reject the Bible'.

Stannard identifies a few core theological points made by the Genesis authors:

- There is a God

-There is a single all powerful God.

-Man is formed in the 'image' of God

-God takes a personal interest in Man's well-being.

-Creation is seen to be good.

We are destined to fail to live up to our intended role.

We are fundamentally alienated from God.


As you can see there's a strong case to be made that creationism is missing the point... and i say that as an "old-earther" myself. The idea that the Earth/Universe is young and evolution is 'anti-Scripture' is the more modern idea... not the other way around, believe it or not.




Originally posted by Busymind
I think some Christians have a problem with evolution because their bible says man was created in God's image; and how can God be perfect if He is evolving?


God, to my knowledge, doesn't have brown hair, brown eyes and a winning smile.


In other words our bodies are not what is in His image.


What does it mean that man is made in the image of God?

Having the “image” or “likeness” of God means, in the simplest terms, that we were made to resemble God. Adam did not resemble God in the sense of God’s having flesh and blood. Scripture says that “God is a spirit” (John 4:24) and therefore exists without a body. However, Adam’s body did mirror the life of God, insofar as it was created in perfect health and was not subject to death.

The image of God refers to the immaterial part of man. It sets man apart from the animal world, fits him for the “dominion” God intended (Genesis 1:28), and enables him to commune with his Maker. It is a likeness mentally, morally, and socially.

Mentally, man was created as a rational, volitional agent—in other words, man can reason and man can choose. This is a reflection of God’s intellect and freedom. Any time someone invents a machine, writes a book, paints a landscape, enjoys a symphony, calculates a sum, or names a pet, he or she is proclaiming the fact that we are made in God’s image.



What Does it Mean to be Human

Made "in His image" (Genesis 1:27, NIV) means that God gave us those qualities that He could pass on to us in our mortal bodies: the capacity to think, a will to choose, emotions, morality, the ability to love and hate. All of these things He possesses and He created them in us. These things separate us from the animal kingdom to be sure. But then God made something very special in us. He made a spirit inside us that could somehow connect with Him, know Him, and have intimate friendship with Him.


(All emphasis is mine - Rren) I'm not trying to tell you what or how to think or believe. I'm not entirely convinced that man and ape share a common ancestry but to deny the strength of the evidence is disingenuous (whether you're making that statement as a scientific "fact" or a theological one) imho. I have more issues with Universal Common Ancestry than i do with man being an evolved primate. My point is that it isn't so black and white as some seem to think (especially the young earthers) and it's not anti-Christian or a perversion of Scripture to believe in either the ToE or an old Earth/Universe.

Again that's just my opinion, and you know what they say about that. Like a butt everybody has one and nobody likes someone else's being shoved in their face.



[edit on 23-2-2006 by Rren]



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 01:07 PM
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Christians, like members of any group of people who set themselves apart from the rest of humanity, believe they are superior. If they didn't, then why would they bother to make the distinction? Evolution (and now genetics) says that all human beings are basically the same.


If you're a Christian, then you still carry with you the old Egyptian notion that after you die, you'll be judged (by the god Ma'at) and will either go to a wonderful reward or go to someplace less pleasant. Now, if people are all basically the same, then what can they do to prove they deserve to go to Heaven, compared to the next guy, who they know is a no-good rat bastard?

Evolution threatens a Christian's sense of superiority and worthiness to go to Heaven.



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 07:35 PM
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Christians don't like evolution because evolution killed religion. Those who do not know this (and they are many) are simply not interested in truth and facts.
There is a story, most likely not apocryphal, like the bible, that after trying for over two hours to explain relativistic concepts to a science writer back in the 50's only to have the writer place her pad and pencil on her knees with exasperation and say." well, what is real anyway?"
Einstein thought for a moment, realizing that his attempts were hopeless said, "Well, I suppose that for most people it is a matter of perception, Ja".

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis (1935)

skep



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 10:15 AM
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Why can't there be creation of evolution?

Why do you have to take the 6 days literally as 6 days and not 6 time periods?



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 03:00 PM
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What Does it Mean to be Human

Made "in His image" (Genesis 1:27, NIV) means that God gave us those qualities that He could pass on to us in our mortal bodies: the capacity to think, a will to choose, emotions, morality, the ability to love and hate. All of these things He possesses and He created them in us. These things separate us from the animal kingdom to be sure. But then God made something very special in us. He made a spirit inside us that could somehow connect with Him, know Him, and have intimate friendship with Him.


Are all primate's considered made in god's image then? Ever here of koko the gorilla? She display's all those same trait's. As do quiet alot of animals. The only thing seperating us from the animals is our STUPIDITY. Seriously, how ignorant do you have to be to literally think your any better then any other species on this planet. Face it, the human species is FAR from special. Get off your cross and use the wood to build a bridge and get over it already.



posted on Feb, 26 2006 @ 02:42 PM
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sorry but no matter how many time sit is said evolution doesnt become a religion it is science it keps getting reevaluated and tested.
want proof how about hospital superbugs ot H5N1.
Oh sorry I forgot the benevolent god made them to wipe people out.



posted on Feb, 26 2006 @ 03:10 PM
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I realy do agree with you, in almost all context,
I find it strange that christians can't except evolution in some way.
The bible does not say evolution is a myth, or does not exsist, it just doesn't mention the physical way we were created, not in so many words anyway.
Is it so hard to belive that god created us through evolution?
One point... I think the two (science and religion) work in almost PERFECTION together.. heres my reason... No matter how much you don't belive in any god, you can't answer one question........ why?
Not even the greatest of scientist could explain that....
So Science helps us understand HOW.
And religion helps us understand WHY.













[edit on 26-2-2006 by Apoplexy123]



posted on Feb, 26 2006 @ 03:13 PM
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Science and religion don't work together in perfection. The religous belief in noah's flood is scientificly disproven. Never happened as it was depicted in the bible. ToE doesn't say anything about the biblical teaching's of a diety breathing life into man created from dust. Etc etc etc.

Perhaps you can elaborate on what you meant.



posted on Feb, 26 2006 @ 03:48 PM
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Christian fundamentalism is not Christianity. It's difficult to make generalizations about religions, and to say Christians have a problem with evolution is overly general. Many Christians have no problem with evolution and are able to accept the Bible without worrying too much about its historical accuracy. Fundamentalism is not a prerequisite for a deep and spiritual relationship with God through Christ.

Unfortunately there are those who confuse zealotry with devotion, righteousness with faith. They tend to be most vocal in their rejection of anything that does not fit their narrow views. They don't see that their zealotry actually widens the divide between their faith and those who might be willing to adopt it. They are not "Christians", but a small and disagreeable subset thereof.



posted on Feb, 26 2006 @ 04:37 PM
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Sorry Produkt/..

Yes you are right, I did generalize what I mean to a bit of an exageration.
What i should have said is, for those of us (thats me included) that belive in a god and science, somtimes science only helps answer questions lurking in religion, though i think the problem is, that religion suggests that to belive in the scince of creation is wrong and incorrect.
And in practice religion and science don't work at all.
I think it's almost impossible to fully belive in one and also say i belive in the other.
I may have dug a bit of a hole in what i said.. PERFECTION... thats probly too strong a word, well actualy it definetly is... I just have a theory of the 2 almost working in synomity.. though i know they constantly contridict each other.
Am i making any sence hear.... sorry if i'm not....



posted on Feb, 26 2006 @ 05:01 PM
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I still don't get what your trying to say... If anything, science has dispelled alot of early religous belief's. How the universe got here. How life came to be. Etc. Religous teaching's tell us that some supernatural god and in the case for other culture's GOD'S, created the universe. Some religous teaching's also claimed the earth was flat or the center of the universe or lightening was the act of angry god's. Some, and some still do teach that demon's or bad spirit's cause sickness and diseases. If anything, science has taught us that all these beliefs are false and untrue. One of the many claims of the monothesitic crowd for today is that this planet was made to suit our species. It only appear's that way because we evolved here. The evidence for our evolution on this planet, thus our seemingly being suited for this planet is overwhelming if anything. The evidence for a god and or god's is nothing but a few books and teaching's created by man himself.

Science and religion just don't mix. As much as some religous people would like to think it does.



posted on Feb, 26 2006 @ 05:30 PM
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I understand what your saying, paticularly as your somone who believes soley in science.
The thing is, If that is what you belive in it would'nt matter what i put in front of you, you would not agree with anything remotley religious to justify life, which i can understand because unless you have any physical proof of religion, you can't take it as physical evidence.
That is why people of soley science will most definetly disreguard anything supernatural as an answer for life because it is purely not science.
The medium for me is that I strongly belive there is more to life than what is here but know the basis on which we were created is backed by science.
This is where i go back to .. why ..?
Science can't answer this question for me. I know it looks as if I am ignorent to say "well if i can't answer it, it must be the work of god".
Maybe it is just easier to belive than there is nothing or no reason.
Can you answer me ... why>?



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