Who do you blame for the Cold War?

It is the US foreign policies in the 1950s 1960s to blame. America has always been fearful of the Big Red. Russia only wanted Poland, Germany was splitted according and respectively by 4. Truman Doctrine and Marshall Aids were intial US policies to fight communism by finanical means. After the
1950s US congress passed the NSC 48 report, which allowed American forces to intervene anywhere on the planet to fight communism, and that partly started the Korea War, and later the Vietnam War, the Middle East conflicts, and the Latin American Civil War.

Further US aggresion was also shown when it started the NATO, and Soviets followed suit with Warsaw Pact. Actually, Russia suggested unoccupied and free Germany, but it was the US that refused letting go of Berlin. Soviets came up with the nuke after US threatened to use it on several occasions, ending the American nuclear monopoly.

Russia also suggested of Detende and and Peaceful Co-existence policies. It was well with the first three summit meetings, but on the forth it collapsed when US U2 spy plane was spotted in Russia and shot down.

US foreign policies were largely to blame.

WithinyouWithoutyou was right. America was threatened by the Russians after the Nazi threat was gone. Europe war was pretty much finished and victory in the Pacific Theatre was just around the corner. A-bombs were only dropped in Nasaka and Hiroshima as a show of might and warning to Stalin.

Nonetheless the Barbarosa left Russia in ruins socially and economically it was in no way in threat to America or in any shape to be capable of a so-called Communism takover of the world. The Atomic bombs backfired and actually movitated and sped up the Russian recovery from the war and created the Cold War.

You can say that America was overly-paranoid of its economic and military power gained in WWII being taken by the Reds.

Originally posted by EarthUnificationFrontier
, and that partly started the Korea War

Or perhaps it was Kim Il-sung invading South Korea that started the War.

Before the invasion Kim Il Sung didnt turn to China he went to Stalin for help. Stalin wanted no part of it and didnt want Kim Il Sung to proceede since Korea was just not Worth War with the US. Korea was just not that important to Russia.

The north invaded anyway and got China to help and Russia to help covertly but they tried very hard to hide their role in the Conflict.

Stalin was a paronoid monster he killed some 20 million of his own people, signed a deal with Hitler to get his own piece of the pie that was Europe and after the Nazis double crossed him had plans to keep rolling past Germany during WW2 into the rest of Europe to "liberate" it by bringing it under Communist rule and we all know how great Stalins liberations turned out.

Stalin was the root cause of the Cold War

Everyone's to blame
Strangly, people like hating other people
And America always needs someone to hate throughout history.
Now its the middle east

Russia was the nation that suffered the most casualties in WWII:

Military: 8,668,000
Civilian: 16,900,000
Total: 25,568,000

USA,
Military: 295,000
Civilian: None
Total: 295,000

Aside the population, the industralizations, economy, and social infrastructuers that the Soviets had built up before the war was so devastated that by a time Russia had virtually no trades and GDP.

On the other hand, WWII gave the US a god-sent opportunity for its capitalist to sell arms and military equipments that were so desperate in need in Europe. From the first Lend Lease shipment alone, US already earned $11 Billion dollars worth of supplies to Britain. Note that over the years of inflation, the $11 billion would be worth more than three times its current worth today. Furthermore, not a single mortor shell or bullet was ever dropped on American soil, US had none cilivian death.

Unlike Russia, Total War was an non-exisiting term in US during WWII. Back in home front most Americans did not even smell the air of war or feel its least prescence aside newspapers. In fact, during the 40s, and 50s were some of the most properous times for the Americans.

Listing all these facts, it is either ridiculous or extremely foolish to claim the Russians were capable of a Communism spread of the world.

Roosevelt isolationism emerged from the wide and prevalent domestic desire to remain neutral in any international conflicts. It commonly widely believed that Americans entered the first World War simply in order to save industry capitalist investments in Europe. Whether this is the case or not, Roosevelt was forced to work with an inherently isolationist Congress, only expanding its horizons after the bombing of Pearl Harbour. He signed the Neutrality Act of 1935, making it illegal for the United States to ship arms to the belligerents of any conflict. The act also stated that belligerents could buy only non-armaments from the US, and even these were only to be ought with cash.

In contrast, Stalin was by necessity interested in European affairs, but only to the point of concern to the USSR. Russian foreign policy was fundamentally Leninist in its concern to keep the USSR out of war. Stalin wanted to consolidate Communist power and modernise the country's industry. The Soviet Union was committed to collective action for peace, as long as that commitment did not mean that the Soviet Union would take a brunt of a Nazi attack as a result. Examples of this can be seen in the Soviet Unions attempts to achieve a mutual assistance treaty with Britain and France.

In the later years of 1950s 60s Peaceful Co-existence was also introduced by Kruscshev. However the hope for an end to Cold War was over as the US broke its promise of espionage and intelligence gathering in USSR as a U2 spy plane was detected and shot down.

The 20 million deaths were responsible by Chekka, and they were in no means involved with the USSR foreign policies.

Korea did not ask China for help. In fact, Kim Il Sung's intention of invading South Korea was never consulted to Mao. The Chinese were forced to intervene when the Coalition forces pushed NK up to Chongchon river, just a river away from borders of China. Eventual American takeover of North Korea would be a threat to the newly established Communist China, actions must be taken against it.

I failed to see Stalin as the catalyst of Cold War, nor have you given any justifiable concrete evidence.






[edit on 24-2-2006 by EarthUnificationFrontier]

[edit on 24-2-2006 by EarthUnificationFrontier]

Not to nitpick but US casualties during the Second World War were actually around the 500,000 mark. With nearly 400,000 of those alone beign lost against nazi Germany.
And Stalin did have intentions to conquer the rest of Europe. Hitler used Stalin as a sheild against the British in the early days of the war so as he could have free reign in conquering France. The British were afraid of Russias involvement after Russia signed the deal which partitioned Poland between Germany and the USSr and also gave Russia free reign to seize most of the Baltic states.
But Hitler refused to allow his partnership with the USSR go beyond an economic one. Although Hitler and Stalin shared the same goal of the destruction of the British Empire, Hitler was far more concerned with waging his holy crusade against the Slavic masses.
Stalin was salivating at the chance of overrunning the rest of Europe after the close of hostilities. He knew that Roosevelt mildly supported him (Seeign as how Roosevelt was a socialist himself) and figured that the British would be too taxed after the war to offer up any resistance.
Hence why the Soviets decided to redress history and attacked Japan in 1945 without prior provocation since 1939 when the two fought a breif war over the Nomohan province in Mongolia.
This allowed Russia to create a strong bond with Mao-Tse-Tungs Commuinists in China (Who under Russian backing waged a succesfull war against Chinag Kai Shek's nationalists after the close of WWII) and also gained the Northern half of Korea as a Communists client state.
True, there were some in Japan who wanted to surrender before the bombs were dropped, but the vast majority of the Imperial Military High Command thought that they could make a invasion of Japan (which was the next logical step) a suicide move for the allied powers.
Truman had to deal with the nearly 85,000 allied losses on the island of Okinawa alone, which was more than the number of Japanese defenders originally on the island. The Japanese policy of Bushido precluded them from surrender, fights to the death were common place in the Pacific theater. Truman had to deal with the massive casualties incurred should an invasion of Japan itself take place (estimated to be at 1,000,000) and the new threat stemmingfrom the aggressive policy of the Soviet Union to "Liberate" all territories under their control. (In other words forming them into Soviet client states)
The bombs were horrible and also possibly unneccesarry as maybe a Japanese civil war might have broken out had the populace realized that their own Emporer was a prisoner of their own Imperial Military. But they were dropped and the Japanese surrendered.
As I stated before, both sides were complicit, but the Stalinistic policy of "liberation" by force didn't help matters.

EarthUnification, you do realize the cold war started well before the 1950's and 60's right? Some scholars even believe it goes back to the Bolshevic Revolution in 1917. I still believe it started or was set in motion(with no chance of being stopped) toward the end of WW2, with the race of the major allied powers to get their hands on all the advanced military tech. the Germans possesed at the time. The Marshall Plan was a bad move, but I cant think of any other way that could have been done. There are simply too many factors to simply pin it on one country. Between the tech grab, the Marshall Plan, Soviets not pulling out of Europe, the forming of NATO, you cant pinpoint an exact cause. But the forming of NATO was a direct result of Russia keeping their hold on Eastern Germany and Europe. Thats how I see it. But your statement that it was caused by US Foreign policy is just wrong in my opinion, especially considering the dates you gave. It doesnt fit with the timeline of all the events leading up to the start of the Cold War.

I did mention the creation of NATO, which the Soviets followed suit with the Warsaw Pact. US reinforcement on the Western Bloc also put pressures on USSR to strengthen its hold on the Eastern Bloc. The theory of the Cold War started since the 1917 October Revolution was believed by some historians, but not a mainstream one. Most believed the Cold War truly set in inevitable motion when Berlin and Germany was splitted into East and West repsectively.

Overal USA was constantly playing the aggressor dragging USSR to execute similar measure which in turns intesified the CW tension escalating it into arms race, wars by proxy, shuttle diplomacy etc.





[edit on 24-2-2006 by EarthUnificationFrontier]

Originally posted by Teph2112
Everyone's to blame
Strangly, people like hating other people
And America always needs someone to hate throughout history.

Im of Russian decent and still have family over there and I still hate Stalin a view shared by millions of other Russians. Stalin killed more Russians then the US ever has.

[edit on 24-2-2006 by ShadowXIX]

Another factor in the Cold War I overlooked was the breaking on the non-agression pact by Germany. This made Stalin very untrusting of non communist nations, at which point after the war he installed communist governments in the 4 countries bordering Russia, in an attempt to secure their borders. Europe and the US saw this as an attempt at expansion, as a long time Russian dream to control all Slavic countries.

Post War Europe

ShadowXIX posted: "Im of Russian decent and still have family over there and I still hate Stalin a view shared by millions of other Russians. Stalin killed more Russians then the US ever has."

It doesn't matter. Chekka's terror reign on the Russian people was never the cause of Cold War.

Originally posted by ludaChris
The Marshall Plan was a bad move, but I cant think of any other way that could have been done.

most certainly was, the US expected Russia to pull out of talks in paris, they also intended that Russia would never receive aid under this programme, unless russia would be willing to open up the eastern bloc to the west(which was never going to happen)

that said, I have no alternate solution =]

Originally posted by EarthUnificationFrontier
It doesn't matter. Chekka's terror reign on the Russian people was never the cause of Cold War.

Perhaps not but Stalins paranoia was a huge factor in causing the cold war. And there was no better example of his paranoia then his Purges of his own people.

But I was just trying to make a point that Stalin was a Monster to more then the USA. He wasnt just a enemy created for the US people to hate or anything like that as others would try to portray he was a true monster.

Originally posted by LazyD
I love how the Russians say everyone has the right to nuclear technology, including Iran, when infact they basically stole it from the US.

You think Russain stolen nuclear technology.
What about Liquid Rocket Fuel technology?
Now, all rockets flying on it.

Also, what about stolen mind.
Factories of scientists working on usa. Full of russians.

Who do you blame for the Cold War?

It depends under what International Relations paradigm you side with.
To the:
Realists-it was the USSR/Russia.
Revisionist-it was the US.
Post-modern revisionists-it was both sides fault (John Lewis Gaddis).

Furthermore, the origins of the Cold War go back further than the historically emphasized 1945. To some, it goes as far back as 1917-18 and the Russian Civil War (Reds and the Whites).







seekerof

[edit on 25-2-2006 by Seekerof]

Sometimes I think in the revisionist mode, but 95% of the time I am a proud realist...nothing better then the truth baby.

I fail to see how realist perspective = it was the USSR's fault.
Could you elaborate on this please?

Joseph Stalin hijacked the principles of Communism and turned it into a totalitarian way of governing bent on world domination.
After the end of WWII, the United States was THE economic power on the world stage precisely because of the principles of capitalism. Western Europe wanted to retain its free markets and its republican rule, Stalin, despite pleas to withdraw back to his pre 1939 borders, refused and decided to occupy permanently all of the territories and nations he had swept through after the collapse of the central Wehrmacht front in Belloruss in August of 1944.
Stalin was threatened by the United States because he saw them as an extension of the British Empire which he detested for having influence in the Middle East which Stalin saw as the traditional domain of Russia.
Also Stalin wanted to redress history on a permanent basis with Japan. Remember in 1905-06 Japan became the first eastern power to soundly defeat a European one in the Russo-Japanese war.
Russia had been humiliated in that war, especially when the mighty Czar's fleet was trounced off Port McArthur in China, Stalin, despite his blitzkreig into Northern China through Manchuria and into Northern Korea at the closing months of WWII, still hoped to dominate the island nation. (His occupation of the Kurile islands is to this day a spot of contention between a reawakening Russia and a not sure how to handle themselves on the world stage Japan)
After the sigining of the surrender documents on the USS Missouri in Tokyo bay, the United States saw a potentialy powerfull ally in the Pacific region. Realising the growing threat that Stalin presented to the west in general, the United States reinforced its garrisons in the Pacific as a warning to Russia and China (Which not long after the war, through Stalins support, had turned Comunist after a very bloody civil war) agaisnt any further Communistic expansion.
True Stalin wasn't pleased when N.Korea launched their surprise attack into the South (he had recently been rebuffed in his attempt to have all of Berlin after the 1948 airlift by Nato and was therefore Euro-centered in his foreign policies) but still provided technical and advisory support ot N.Korea while China basically stepped in and took over the land war aspects after the close of 1950.
Joseph Stalin was hell bent on having a sort of Commuinistic world state with Mother Russia (under his rule of course) at the helm. Just look at what happened to Hungary if you're of the opinion that Communist rule wasn't so bad.
THe original precepts of Communism as applied by the orignal Marxist theories actually sound quite wonderful, but they fail to take in mans natural greed, selfishness and the fact that there are simply those who do more than others and they should be rewarded for their extra efforts to society. Had Stalin been a true Communist, he may have not been so bad....then again, a Russia not under the thumb of a harsh dictator probably wouldn't have survived the vicious onslaught by Nazi Germany in 1941....totalitarian regimes historically (Alexanders Greece, Rome, Han Dynasty, British Empire, Napoleons France, Nazi Germany, Stalins USSR) have proved to be the better war wagers over those with more freedoms.

Seekerof, here is what IMHO is a more realistic breakdown:

Western Revisionist-it was the US
Eastern Revisionist-it was USSR/Russia
Post-modern revisionists-it was both sides fault
Western Psuedo-Realists-it was the USSR/Russia
Eastern Psuedo-Realists-it was the USA
Realists-it was international bankers

The only people who benefited from the Cold War are those who made a bundle selling arms to both sides. The same goes for both World Wars. Following the end of the second war a new source of cashflow was required and another play was needed in the great power grab; A new enemy was needed. Hence the Cold War and the military industrial complex. Follow the money as the saying goes.

Who should be blamed for the Cold Wars?, it is simple, The Reptilians and the Greys, in Islam these Evil beings of the lesser light of hot poisonous wind are called JINNS. The Luciferians, the ones responsible for all of the Wars Europeans have waged for the past 6,000 years, These Evil Reptilians operate from beneath the surface and also of the Seas of this planet, The Reptilians have a Underground Water Base in the BERMUDA TRIANGLE, anything dealing with human life snatched out of the skies in this area either becomes food or a guinea pig for further Luciferian experiments that have been waged on Humanity through Secret Societies like The Bilderberg group, The JASON group, Skull and Bones of Yale, Knights of Malta the Popes Militia, Scroll and Key, The Council on Foreign Relations, The Tri-lateral Commision, plain and simple, The Brotherhood of the Dragon, REPTILIANS. This is REAL, a Satanic New World Order under Reptilian and Evil Grey Rule. True Islam teaches Muslims the Factual knowledge about the European Canaanites connection with the JINNS, The Evil Extra- Terra- Astrals of the lesser light of SAMUWM, hot poisonous wind. These Evil Secret Satanic groups of Beast are the leaders of todays present World Governments, they have made a pact with the Reptilians through their initiation oaths to be a part of the plot to rid the planet of any Human life for a Reptilian take over. Armagedon will be a Global World Wide Jihad against the Agents of these groups.