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Who do you blame for the Cold War?

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posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 10:57 AM
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Personally I blame Stalin. Here's why:

When WWI ended, Europe was trashed. The Allies said to Germany "you broke it, you bought it" and Germany had to recover on its own, while the Allies helped each other.

Germany's economy went to pot, which made it easy for extremists to take over. Enter: Hitler. Hitler blamed the rest of the world (particularly the Jews) for Germany's poor state.

Then came WWII. When it ended, we decided not to "stick it" to the Axis powers - we helped them instead. The US, Britain, and Russia each occupied a certain portion of Germany. Russia also occupied the territories that it had to cross to get to Germany.

At a certain point, we were supposed to do a big "1-2-3 let go!" and stop occupying Germany. Everyone "let go" but Russia, who gave us the finger an held on to it and many Eastern Russia.

That, in my opinion, started the big fear about the Commies wanting to mindlessly spread communisim throughout the world. People blame Joseph Mccarthy for leading a "communist scare" but later evidence provided by the Venona Project proved him to be correct. It can be said with confidence that Communist Spies discredited Mccarthy by making him look like a madman.

en.wikipedia.org...

Anyway, in the end, I blame Russia. They didn't have to hold on to Germany or any of the other states that they liberated from Germany. It would have been messed up if the United States claimed France, Holland, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Germany, Austria, Italy, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, and Libya as new States.




posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 11:04 AM
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The Cold War arose because there were 2 ideologically opposed superpowers. Both of which spread their ideology by overt, covert and especially underhanded means.

Victory at all costs.



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 01:47 PM
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The Japanese had been in secret talks to surrender for quite some time prior to the dropping of the A-bombs. Truman had them detonated in order to send Stalin a message: Don't **** with us, we can explode you, you commie rat!

To be sure, the USA and USSR were of opposing philosophies and this played it's part, but I believe the A-bomb was the catalyst. It prompted prompted the Soviets to get in gear and prepare for the long haul to deal with this threat. Hence, I blame Truman.


Flame away!

[edit on 21-2-2006 by WithinyouWithoutyou]



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 10:39 PM
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I love how the Russians say everyone has the right to nuclear technology, including Iran, when infact they basically stole it from the US.



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 09:18 AM
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WithinyouWithoutyou, LazyD,
I love how you guys call Russian people commies. I happen to be Russian(well my father is) I was born in Israel and than moved to Russia, after Russia I lived in Austria and Italy for a few years each. You guys are very misinformed about the A-bomb and so forth. Truman didn't drop a nuke on Japan to 'scare' Stalin PLEASE! Get your facts straight. RUSSIA was the country who WON the war, not the U.S. Russia and U.S. trade with each other all the time, technology, money etc.. Russia had A-bombs as did the U.S. The reason for the cold war is because every large country needs an enemy, it gives the citizens of that country someone to dislike and builds patriotism within the country, never was Russia scared of the U.S. or vice versa. You guys really need to do your homework before you start 'bashing' other nationalities for no apparent reason. Oh and one more thing, Russia did NOT steal the A-bomb from U.S. if you really want to get into this the U.S. stole the a-bomb from Hitler, Germany, as Einstein was a scientist for Hitler. It matter not to him(Einstein) who he made the bomb for, he just wanted to finish it. So when the U.S. 'stole' Enstein from Germany thats where the disceaption began. get YOUR facts straight.



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 10:24 AM
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MrJenka,

My apologies if I offended you...I was speaking in character. After all I'm a damn socialist Canuck! No doubt Russia won the war (with some help from Yankee spam and jeeps
) They took on 90% of the Whermacht!

However, Russia was a decade away from the bomb at least, they only aquired it when they did thanks to some superb intelligence work. It is my belief that the bomb was a message from the capitalist pigs (Jest, you see) to the Russians, whose massive armies were having lunch with the allied armies in Berlin. "Don't get any ideas" seemed to be the message.

I really need to perfect my message board sarcasm
No "bashing" was intended. Oh and I'm pretty sure Einstein went to America willingly...some "fact" about getting exterminated or immigrating...

I need to perfect my spelling to.

[edit on 22-2-2006 by WithinyouWithoutyou]



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 10:54 AM
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hey no offense taken
. Enstein did come to America willingly after he found out what Hitler was going to do with the abomb. however American didn't reject him, they welcomed him wuth ooen arms. Like a baseball player telling his team, "Hey, I don't like what you guys are trying to do, I am moving over to another team" don't you think thats a form of stealing? After WWII allot of German scientists came to the U.S. to coutinue their work, don't you think Russia got some scientists too?
. And yes, I do agree, the U.S. did help a GREAT deal in winning WWII, so did Britian.



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 11:21 AM
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actually the atomic bomb was a british invention by 2 german scientists, so all facts are wrong , re:-

1) about US inventing the atom
2) about russia stealing the atom from the US

do some research on google.


[edit on 22-2-2006 by st3ve_o]



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 11:51 AM
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ok SteVo. your the right.NOT. why dont YOU do some MORE research on google.



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 12:53 PM
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www.tonybenn.com...

www.ls.manchester.ac.uk...

for more info do a search on (Klaus Fuchs and Rudolf Peierls) and what they worked on in 1940:-

'Tube_alloys' project:-

en.wikipedia.org...

also see:-

en.wikipedia.org...

this worked then evolved into the 'manhattan project' worked on by british and american scientists.


[edit on 22-2-2006 by st3ve_o]



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 02:52 PM
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It can be said with confidence that Communist Spies discredited Mccarthy by making him look like a madman.

en.wikipedia.org...



Hey, Ralph, I went to wikipedia and read the whole article. I have to say, that I didn't get that interpretation at all. McCarthy was an alcoholic, straight up, pure and simple, even the Wiki article pretty much says that. And as anyone who's ever lived with an alcoholic knows, alcoholism has its own brand of insanity, on top of being a diagnosable mental illness.

-Forestlady



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by LazyD
I love how the Russians say everyone has the right to nuclear technology, including Iran, when infact they basically stole it from the US.


...who stole it from Germany. Note also that we do the same thing, i.e. Iran right now, telling them they shouldn't have weapons, while we're using depleted uranium (which has now been detected in Britain) in Iraq.

The Russian government could be quite paranoid in those days. The U.S. meanwhile had signed the 1947 National Security Act, the thinking being that manufacturing many weapons of war would give jobs to lots of people. In truth, it was the U.S. who whipped up a frenzy against Russia, since America was wanting to stay in permanent war. It was the U.S. who whpped up fear about Russia, who then felt the need to protect themselves against us.

When I was in USSR in 1977 for a month, I met not one person who hated America; on the contrary they were extremely gracious to me and gave me the impression that they actually liked Americans and understood that the people and the government had different veiws on this cold war. They were extremely curious about America and Americans. When I was there, all you had to do was to look around at the badly built, crooked buildings and the empty marketplaces to know that there was too much poverty in Russia for Russians to do anything really dangerous to us. What with their really bad technology, I would imagine that they couldn't put together a workable missile. Don't get me wrong, I loved Russia and the warmth of the Russian people, but their technology is not so hot.


America isn't always innocent, contrary to what many Americans believe.
I love my country, but like any other institution or human being, it's not perfect and neither is our foreign policy.

-Forestlady



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 03:59 PM
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Thank you ForestLady, I am Russian and lived there for many years. I haven't meet many Russians that have anything bad to say about Americans. Although there are bad apples in every culture. I am sorry to inform you guys on this but the scientist what figured out how to make the Abomb work was ENSTEIN!!!!! Maybe the two German scientist started something but Albert finished it. By the way Wikipidea is not a very good source of information as the articles are contributed by civilians, not by historians, researchers, or novelists. You can post your own theory on Wikipidea and it will work. So please, find a better source.



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 05:40 PM
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So its the US's fault for Stalin not pulling out of East Germany and Eastern Europe? I can't go with that. In my opinion, the cold war started before WW2 was over. I dont know if anyone will go with me on this but the Cold War was started over German technology(the V2, Me 262, Nuclear studies ect.) The US and Russia were racing each other to Berlin to get their hands on this technology first. Thats what it was all about, I mean, look at where society is today, I dont think we would be where we are at today technologically if it werent for the Cold War. Just an opinion I formed after watching a thing on th History Channel about Nazi Tech in WW2. Anyone agree, disagree?



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by ludaChris
So its the US's fault for Stalin not pulling out of East Germany and Eastern Europe? I can't go with that. In my opinion, the cold war started before WW2 was over. I dont know if anyone will go with me on this but the Cold War was started over German technology(the V2, Me 262, Nuclear studies ect.) The US and Russia were racing each other to Berlin to get their hands on this technology first. Thats what it was all about, I mean, look at where society is today, I dont think we would be where we are at today technologically if it werent for the Cold War. Just an opinion I formed after watching a thing on th History Channel about Nazi Tech in WW2. Anyone agree, disagree?


so far i can relate with u the best and i think what u said is very good



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 12:29 AM
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There are two great books out there that are important reading for anyone wanting to understand the origins of the cold war.
The first is: The Russo German War by Col. (British) Albert Seaton (In fact I think this book is out of print, sad, it's a great one)
And the second is still out and it is: Armaggeddon, the collapse of nazi Germany 1944-45 by Max Hastings.
In both of these books it outlines that during the war, the Western Allies intended the Russians to have to bear the brunt of the German war machine in order to insure that they entered the post war situation greatly weakened, and therefore not a threat to the West. It backfired.
As Colonel Seaton relates in the early chapters of his book, Stalin viewed Hitler as a buffer against the Imperial powers of the West and was actually quite shocked when, despite warnings from Molotov, Gavrilovich and Kalinin, Hitler invaded on June 22nd 1941.
When the Germans spent their last mobile reserves in the twin offensives of the Ardennes and Alsace-Lorraine in the winter of 44-45, the Russians proceeded to knife through the German lines in East Prussia and western Poland like a knife through butter. Although the Germans did launch a final offensive aimed at releiving the encircled armies at Budapest, despite nearly succeeding, they failed and thus the door was open to cross the Oder River and assault Berlin. As this was happening, British and Canadian forces were slogging their way towards the Rhine (taking the majority of Western Allied losses in the last months of WWII) against fnatical German resistance while US forces were encircling the Ruhr and preparing to cross the Rhine.
Now a political war began. Churchill wanted Ike to send the allied forces pell mell towards Berlin and get there before the Russians, Roosevelt was adamant about sticking to the agreed upon plan conceived at the Yalta conference. Eisenhower would have liked ot send his forces to Berlin (Patton was absolutley salivating at the idea) but he was a political general, not a true strategist. Ike's job was merely to be the peacemaker between the amazingly strong egos which made up the field command of the different allied armies. So Ike refused, and after losing tens of thousands of men in crossing the Rhine and destroying the Ruhr pocket, when US forces linked up with Soviet forces at the River Elbe, (after a few minor friendly fire exchanges) Ike called for a complete halt of the central armies. (he did allow Patton to race down and capture Austria and Czechoslovakia before the Soviets reached them.)
When the smoke cleared at the end of the final battle of Berlin, 800,000 Soviets were dead, nearly 500,000 Germans as well, and the map of Europe was changed forever.
Stalin refused to back down to the allies and began to occupy the Eastern European countries that had formally been allied with Nazi Germany just like Churchill feared. In Asia the Soviets suddenly declared war on Japan and the cold war officialy began when Soviet troops lanced into Manchuria and the northern half of Korea, killing over a million Japanese troops in the process. It was clear to President Truman that the Soviets were playing for world domination, just as Stalin had intended.
In my mind, the cold war was started long before the D-Day landings. Stalin kept calling for a second front (The allies had invaded Scicily and Italy in 43. But the Germans were such good fighters and had better tactical officers that the Italian front was held by minimal German forces and still managed ot inflict an average of 2-1 loss ratio against the allies.) in order to draw away German forces so as to lance into central Europe and be THE power after the fall of Nazi Germany.
Patton realized the threat of the Russians better possibly even then the true hero of WWII, Winston Churchill. (Yes I'm a Yank but my English ancestry forces me to call Churchill the babyface) Patton wanted to rearm the Germans and launch a joint US, German offensive back towards Moscow. Although many wanted this, it was politicaly unfeasible. (Patton was a little off his rocker despite beign the greatest American general since Robert E Lee)
So...I don't think you can blame anyone individual or group, it was a multi-pronged event, with both sides beign complicit.
And to second someone elses opinion from earlier, although the Western Allies got all the glory for the fall of Nazi Germany, it was the Soviet Union that truly won WWII. They took the lions share of the losses (22,000,000) and inflicted the most German losses (5,500,000 as opposed to the Western figure of around 2,000,000, this doesn't count prisoners). It's ironic that the only way ot beat a totalitarian regime was ot fight it with another one. I guess Fascists and Communists just make meaner fighters.



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 12:34 AM
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This may be a rather simple way of looking at it, but blame humanity. Both sides needed a boogeyman to justify their own actions in many fields. I think there's a difference in asking "Who do you blame for the Cold War," and "Who do you think had the least noble justifications for their actions immediately after WW2," but that's my answer to the former.



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 03:58 AM
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You have voted SpecAgentDW for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

Great input factual and concise. As someone interested in the topic but sadly un informed, i find it hard to comment but can certainly applaud!

Great thread!



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by WithinyouWithoutyou
The Japanese had been in secret talks to surrender for quite some time prior to the dropping of the A-bombs. Truman had them detonated in order to send Stalin a message: Don't **** with us, we can explode you, you commie rat!


[edit on 21-2-2006 by WithinyouWithoutyou]


The earlier surrender talks the Japanse wanted conditions with their surrender mainly that the Emperor remain in power. The US would accept nothing less then unconditional surrender on the part of the Japanese. I took 2 Atomic bombs for the Emperor to see the light.

There were factions of the Japanse military that didnt want to surrender even after two atomic bombs. The military even attempted a coup to steal the Emperors radio surrender message before it was played to the people. Luckly one single man hid it very well.

Surrender was far worse then death in many Japanese eyes at that time.

Besides the A bombs were no secret to Stalin before they were dropped he knew about them. The US told him about them before they were even dropped but he knew about them way before even that.

[edit on 23-2-2006 by ShadowXIX]

[edit on 23-2-2006 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 06:48 AM
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Its all Adolf's fault. If he hadn't turned right before Moscow he would have kicked Koba's backside all the way to Kamchatka...maybe. However, perhaps, that wouldn't have been such a good thing!!!!

Or you can always blame the Jews!





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