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Muslims - Moderate or fanatical in disguise?

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posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 11:35 AM
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Calm down 1119, I know you are exasperated. I am too. But attacking them will not help. Just be patient and tolerant with them, like the Prophet was with the Quraisy.

If Allah wills it, their hearts will open and they will understand. If not, well, you tried. Let them be. Anger will not lead them any closer to understanding.




posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 11:39 AM
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The ICM Poll states that while 41% oppose even introducing Shari`ah law in the UK, only 40% (not 80%) support introducing it.



The ICM opinion poll also indicated that 41 percent of those interviewed opposed any introduction of Shari`ah in Muslim-dominated parts of Britain, while 40 percent backed it.


So...

If the population of the UK is 60.5 million, and there are approximately 1.8 million Muslims living there, and only 40% support introducing Shari`ah Law, that means 1% of the population of the UK supports even introducing Shari`ah Law. One percent

Scary, huh?


Check my math:

40% of 1.8 million Muslims = .4X1.8 =.72 or 720,000
720,000 / 60,500,000 = .0011 or 1.1%



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by Beachcoma
If Allah wills it, their hearts will open and they will understand.


Just so you know, Allah has nothing to do with me understanding. It's not my heart either. I have a logical brain.


[edit on 21-2-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 11:48 AM
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I know you're a rational person, BH


That post was for 1119 and other angry muslim's benefit



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by T0by
In fact most of you are just churning out the regular assumptions some people make when they bring forth any race or religion for questioning.
I do not watch regular news much at all, i do not hate muslims, and who ever mentioned jealous of our freedoms?

No that is not my only source of course, it is just one example to show there are sources out there to support this view. I'm surprised how many people do not know of this common belief? Perhaps it is a belief only taken up by the extremists anyhow.

And i am too tired to say after every sentence 'and by this i mean not every muslim person, just a fraction' do i really have to do that.

How true. It seems that in every thread that discusses these riots, the very same people have the same two arguments, and nothing new. Those arguments are: 1. not all muslims are fanatics, and 2. the media is the instigator in this.

I personally must have stated at least a dozen times that the moderates are not guilty, and are not the ones I'm talking about. As for the media, they have been accurate in their reporting, imo. What else are they supposed to report about this? Rioters are destroying property and people are dying as a result of the riots. Why are they doing this? Because they are offended over some cartoons.

Now, if there is any other reason that they are rioting, I'd like to hear it. Or if they are denouncing the violence in any large numbers, I'd like to see that. Otherwise, it seems like nothing more than attempts to bait the west into answering violence with violence, so that the fanatics have a reason to escalate their mayhem.

Some people don't want to face the fact that the fanatics are totally at fault here, so they keep offering those same two arguments.

I'll bet a dollar that if the west retaliates with force, these same reasonable, intelligent people will be the first to cry foul. Any takers?



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 02:58 PM
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I think before some of you start defending Islam and protesting that it is infact a religion of peace, that you actually do some research on it. I am not religious in any way (maybe spiritual) and I condone all organized religion.

I would like to treat all organized religion the same, but in reality, they are not. Islam is by far the most violent and destructive religion being preached today.

The reason I feel this way, is due to my experience with existing Muslims, and in particular, ex-Muslims, such as Umer Abdul Malik from exmuslim.meetup.com and Aafia Lakshman-Khan from exmuslim.com.

Not only that, but a simple view of ANY news source shows the destructive nature of Islam - just compare the violence and destruction of Islam to other races and religions to get a clear view.

A question for those who back Islam, is there any particular reason for such, are you affiliated in anyway, have an agenda, etc? Please be honest with your answer.

EDIT: Another ex-Muslim community I have come across recently, by doing a search on Google, is www.secularislam.org

[edit on 21-2-2006 by James Daniel]



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 03:12 PM
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1119... you said Saudis not an Islamic country......



Ok, so why the beheadings, the beatings, the religious police, the hand amputations, the five times a day prayer??? Its hardly the Dog and Duck at 11pm with a sing along at closing is it?? Oh you should see for your self just what Saudis like... and when you come back, sit down and thank your lucky stars you don't have to live there like that. The countries a neolithic shambles away from ryihad and some of the main oil areas..

Oh before I forget, as a devoted christian having to preach in secret is no fun, especially as the punishmnet is a beating at best... death at worst. It is also illegal for a saudi to change religion from Islam....


so 1119 if thats not an islamic country there aint one on this earth mate.



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 03:18 PM
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80% of the Muslim world is illiterate. Couple that with paranoid Mullahs and you got a disaster. I'd say the 20% who can read, travel to the West and so forth are tolerant enough of other relgions.

[edit on 21-2-2006 by Nakash]



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 03:26 PM
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Every Muslim, whether here, usa, europe, asia is against all other religions. They only tolerate it till they take an area by force. Then they kill all who oppose them in both military sense and religious sense. The Balkan war is a prime example. The serbs left them alone to do their thing, but no, they want to be seperate, start a war to get what they want, and when the serbs beat the crap out of them the west stupidly creates europes first muslim country by force against the serbs. When it all died down, what happens? oh the muslims make all serb - orthodox people either turn to islam or leave under the threat of death. Kosovo Albania, the biggest bloody mistake the west has made for a long long time. Give a muslim an inch, and it'll want it all.

And which smart arse wants Turkey in the European union? oh thats real smart idea that is.. l

[edit on 21-2-2006 by MadGreebo]



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 03:56 PM
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To all the haters...
welcome to toolville...

you just went and made the same mistake that the rioting fools did...
Such tools...

instead of being tools of the Mullahs, and there hatred...
you are tools of the CIA, and other war mongers...

the numbers dont lie...
there are far more true "moderates" than extremists...

I personally have been very outspoken against the wahhabist extremist islam in the past... and so have many moderate islamic peoples... but you never here that do you?

Why? simple... that a muslim group went peacefully home after talking with a group of cartoonists, and expressing themselves and there outrage... just wouldn't sell the papers...

just like the original true cartoons wouldn't have riled a group of muslims into a frenzy...
until they were shown a picture of the french pig calling contest winner, and were incorrectly told that it was a picture mocking Mohhamed (praise be his name).
(for the hateful muslim dude... that report was from BBC world, and all deaths from these riots are directly due to that religious leaders lies- (may he see justice from God)...

I do not have to understand Islam... just mutually respect it like i want to be respected...

And remember... there are a bunch of wacko christians living in groups in the woods, looking for the day that christ comes and kills all the jews...
so extremists are not unique to islam...

I would love to put our wackos against there wackos... and then the whole world could finally get along...



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 04:02 PM
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Hi, LazarusTheLong

Do you have any proof to back that up?

The way I understand it, and have been shown by actual ex-/Muslims, the violence and destruction is clearly prohibited and promoted within the Qu'ran itself.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that every Muslim is violent, but as is being witnessed right this minute, there is a very vocal part of Islam being very violent and destructive.

Even the MAJORITY of the LEADERS of Islam are calling for further violence and destruction, yet you sit there and type that we are all tools - at least we are using our own experience and research to come to our conclusions and opinions.

Thats all I have to say further on the subject.



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 04:09 PM
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Allow me to share my way of finding the best answer to the question in the first post. Stop watching TV documentaries or news shows on Muslims and go out and talk to some. You'll probably find that they, like everyone else, come in all types.



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky


Now, if there is any other reason that they are rioting, I'd like to hear it.



Fear, anger, frustration, poverty, and lack of education, for starters. The situation has to be judged in the bigger context than just seeing them as the headlines portray them.



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by koji_K

Fear, anger, frustration, poverty, and lack of education, for starters. The situation has to be judged in the bigger context than just seeing them as the headlines portray them.


But these are the things that affect every other race and religion. It is no excuse for the violence and destruction caused by rioting Muslims.

There are soo many races that have been put down, yet have risen to a powerful and significant level without the need for violence and destruction.

Why do you feel the need to defend the actions of these Muslims? I find it odd, especially when the evidence is right in front of you from NUMEROUS sources, not just Western media.

BTW, I understand that there are some very peaceful Muslims and I have had the great fortune to befriend many of them; however, these are a minority in my experience, and they also understand that Islam the dark side of Islam, they just don't practice it.



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 04:24 PM
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James, maybe they are just 40 years behind the west in terms of developement. 40 years ago there were plenty of riots in the west.



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
James, maybe they are just 40 years behind the west in terms of developement. 40 years ago there were plenty of riots in the west.


You will find that they were for freedom. The Muslims are demanding that those freedoms be removed or curtailed. This is the last thing we need, when presumably our leaders are already trying to remove our civil liberties and freedom.



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by James Daniel

But these are the things that affect every other race and religion. It is no excuse for the violence and destruction caused by rioting Muslims.

There are soo many races that have been put down, yet have risen to a powerful and significant level without the need for violence and destruction.

Why do you feel the need to defend the actions of these Muslims? I find it odd, especially when the evidence is right in front of you from NUMEROUS sources, not just Western media.


I agree to an extent, but when you have these things with any race throughout history, combined with people in positions of authority who are willing to take advantage of the situation, you have always gotten violence and destruction, regardless of race or religion.

I'm not defending the actions of these Muslims, but if it seems like I am, it's only because I'm calling it like I see it. I don't believe there is something inherent to Islam which causes this behaviour, the fault lies deeper, in the traits that all humans share and under the right circumstances will be brought out. Perhaps if there is a fault with Islam in particular, it is only that it is a young religion for its size, but I think it's naive to think that just because a group of people isn't Muslim, they aren't capable of violent riots and the like.
What demographic in human history hasn't had a phase marked by violence?



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by James Daniel
You will find that they were for freedom. The Muslims are demanding that those freedoms be removed or curtailed. This is the last thing we need, when presumably our leaders are already trying to remove our civil liberties and freedom.


Sounds like a text book answer to me. I lived through those times and some of it was about rights. Most weren't.



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Nakash
80% of the Muslim world is illiterate.


Sorry, but this is utter and complete crap. You are embracing ignorance!

Using the World Fact Book and this list of the world's prodominantly Muslim countries, I obtained the following information. Listed here are the countries of the world with >60% Muslim population.

Afghanistan (99% Muslim) 36% Literate
Algeria (99% Muslim) 70% Literate
Azerbaijan (93% Muslim) 98.8 Literate
Bahrain (81% Muslim) 89.1% Literate
Bangladesh (83% Muslim) 43% Literate
Brunei (67% Muslim) 93.9% Literate
Comoros (98% Muslim) 56.5% Literate
Djibouti (94% Muslim) 67.9% Literate
Egypt (94% Muslim) 57.7% Literate
Indonesia (88% Muslim) 87.9% Literate
Iran (98% Muslim) 79.4% Literate
Iraq (97% Muslim) 40.4% Literate
Jordan (92% Muslim) 91.3% Literate
Kuwait (85% Muslim) 83.5% Literate
Libya (97% Muslim) 82.6% Literate
Malaysia (??% Muslim) 88.7% Literate
Mali (90% Muslim) 46.4% Literate
Morocco (99% Muslim) 51.7% Literate
Niger (80% Muslim) 17.6% Literate
Oman (75+% Muslim) 75.8% Literate
Pakistan (97% Muslim) 48.7% Literate
Qatar (95% Muslim) 89% Literate
Saudi Arabia (100% Muslim) 78.8% Literate
Senegal (94% Muslim) 40.2% Literate
Somalia (100% Muslim) 37.8% Literate
Sudan (70% Muslim) 61.1% Literate
Syria (74% Muslim) 76.9% Literate
Tajikistan (90% Muslim) 99.4% Literate
Tunisia (98% Muslim) 74.3% Literate
Turkey (99.8% Muslim) 86.5% Literate
United Arab Emirates (96% Muslim) 77.9% Literate
Uzbekistan (88% Muslim) 99.3% Literate
Yemen (~99.9% Muslim) 50.2% Literate

For comparison, the United States' literacy is 97%, that's less than Azerbaijan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan.

Where'd you get your data?



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by koji_K

Originally posted by jsobecky


Now, if there is any other reason that they are rioting, I'd like to hear it.



Fear, anger, frustration, poverty, and lack of education, for starters. The situation has to be judged in the bigger context than just seeing them as the headlines portray them.

Then they should have been rioting against those things. Also, these problems are present worldwide, yet only the fanatical muslims are rioting because of them.




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