USA: 37 Million Poor Hidden in the Land of Plenty

The problem with discussing poverty with numbers is that it blankets everyone in a certain earning category. I've earned lots and by choice now I'm earning very little. I'm not impoverished by any means but by numbers it probably seems that way. I'm probably counted among the million plus that have slipped into poverty under G-Dub. The numbers can be manipulated so therefore they are crap. G-Dub says we're fine. He's got numbers to prove it. Other's say we aren't and they have numbers too.

We have to start telling the truth but it seems hard for some. There are those in this country that get by doing nothing because of social programs that's wrong, but it is equally wrong to say, "go get a job and that will end poverty". We will never have full employment in this economy because of many diverse factors...some folk just drop out of life and sit down and some folk get sick and some folk can't find a job...some folk lose their jobs to outsourcing or illegal labor...so on-and on-and on. Its not a ridged thing. There is no one answer because poor/rich all depends on the type of choices you make when most are too young and dumb to even know the difference. I think of my mother begging my brother to go to college. He didn't until he was 25 with two kids and a wife....struggle. Some folk got out of high school, got what would've been considered a good job a few decades ago, and now find themselves struggling to eat because their good job is in Mexico or China. Maybe they should've went for some higher education.

There are poor people all over the world...some born poor will die poor. Unless you've got a new idea--I guess a drug or something--that's going to get people to make the perfect choices about their life you aren't going to end poverty in the US.

Open hand with two pennies....


[edit on 21-2-2006 by Saphronia]

Originally posted by crmanager
Is this the Anti-American website?
Just once can we talk about how the U.S is not the source of evil?

Well i guess i can point you to couple hundreds threads and posts of mine that does not even mention America if you can't find any yourself. Do you have any specific topic in mind or will anything that glorifies America do?

Stellar

greed and the use of power create intentional poverty.no one person who is or lives it knows nothing of lazy.infact it is shelf inflicted by banks and governments.the only way to fight poverty is to look at whos greed whos power whos bank and whos government is keeping the situation a reality.it not a dirty shirt you wear and belong to.rich people do they ever really think about those things and where they belong in this line of intentional poverty.a person of great wealth does not inflict others to suffer that may be the one lesson rich people need to reform to.there is enough food to feed 6 billion people cloth them and house them.water is recycled and we can give all fresh water.greed and nature are our forces working against us....

Just to put a few things in perspective, take this little meme test.

Just how rich are you, when compared to everyone in the world?

It's basicly an ad for Care International, to raise awareness about global poverty, and to, of course, ask for donations.

We are obsessed with wealth. But we gauge how rich we are by looking upwards at those who have more than us. This makes us feel poor.

We wanted to do something which would help people understand, in real terms, where they stand globally. And make us realise that in fact most of us (who are able to view this web page) are in the privileged minority.

www.globalrichlist.com...



[edit on 21-2-2006 by Jadette]

awhile back, the supreme court ruled that they could restricts visitors of tenants in crime ridden housing projects..I remember there was someone who was just trying to drop off diapers to someone who needed them.

and then there is this thread....

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

about putting cameras in the homes in crime ridden areas...

I'd be willing to bet that both of these mainly effect those of the lower incomes.

dependency leads to servitude. the ones footing the bill will eventually decide that since they are footing the bill, they should have some say on how you live your life.

I've been saying this for over a year now. Be it, relying on the government for your rent, food, ect, or relying on your health insurance company, or government to pay your healthbills, or relying on your husband.....

when things get tough and your need starts taking a big enough bite out of their funds that they must start ignoring thier wants, well, they start to become resentful, and well, then start wanting to meddle into your life, what you are doing with your time, your resources, what you are eating, ect. ect. then they start to come up with all kinds of ideas about what you should change...

WE ALL have lost the right to have friends to come to our house, even to deliver groceries to us when we are sick. it is now a priviledge that some are denied, based on whatever criteria the powers that be deem...

soon, it might be the priveledge of having a private conversation with your child about a problem they might have....instead, it might be filmed for future viewing.....the right to private conversations within your home might become a priviledge granted to some, but denied others.

I gave a glimpse into my life, what it was like a few years ago....and hey, we weren't "in proverty", we were making enough to be above NY's overly generous guidelines!! There are many, many people living in NY who are making less than we were....they are making it with the help of these social programs, now....for the time being.

but, well, if what some are saying about our economy is true....

here's a sample of what I am talking about:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

it's really gonna get painful to feed and house everybody to their satisfaction with or without the social programs. I'm afraid that those with the power, will start to resent and then play lord. and well, then camera's in your house, what?? you're smoking a cigarette, can't have that!! oh, you're calling in sick, hey, ya know, I got you on camera, and well, you don't look that sick to me!! get your tail in here or else!!

I'm not out looking to blame anyone. but, well, proverty is a doorway in which a nice little slave state came come in!! and, it seems to me that more and more peices of it are being put into place.

and like I've said....we've ALL lost the right to have people visit us in our homes, now it is just a matter who they deem is worthy of the priveledge, who isn't. if the start putting cameras into SOME homes, because of crime or whatever, then we will ALL lose the right of privacy in our homes. Maybe we will be found worthy, and trustworthy enough to be allowed that right, maybe not. but it will no longer be a right granted to us in the constitution.

I don't think anyone can convince me that the obnoxious salaries of some isn't playing a part in the degrading living standards of so many! IF having three jobs is needed just to feed your family is so uniquely american, then I think our nation has changed very drasticly since the 70's and not in a good way! Like I said, my grandmother raised a son, took care of her elderly mother, and managed to hold onto the family homestead...during the depression. and she was just a lowly seamstress with a 6th grade education.



I sure hope those nice big salaries and profits from the stock market is worth the freedoms we all are enjoying.....because, in the end, the whole system might just compromise our country enough for them all to be scrapped.

Originally posted by dawnstar
awhile back, the supreme court ruled that they could restricts visitors of tenants in crime ridden housing projects..I remember there was someone who was just trying to drop off diapers to someone who needed them.

and then there is this thread....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

about putting cameras in the homes in crime ridden areas...

...

and like I've said....we've ALL lost the right to have people visit us in our homes, now it is just a matter who they deem is worthy of the priveledge, who isn't. if the start putting cameras into SOME homes, because of crime or whatever, then we will ALL lose the right of privacy in our homes. Maybe we will be found worthy, and trustworthy enough to be allowed that right, maybe not. but it will no longer be a right granted to us in the constitution.

GREAT post dawnstar. Thanks.

...and it's true. The moment we agree that some people deserve freedoms but some don't, we have given up our freedom.

1. Prove the stats


America has the fattest poor of any nation in the world. "Poor" in America is "Rich" by the rest of the worlds' standards.

I can still remember when I just graduated college and got my 1st job that didn't pay all that much. I thought I was doing great because I had my own car, my own place, and still had beer money to spare.

I knew something was wrong when I went to the grocery, had to watch my food budget, yet saw fat unemployed scum buying snack food and steaks, which I could never afford, with food stamps.

If you live in poverty in America it is by your own choice or bad choices.

I don't see many people leaving the country. Turns out the issue is too many people want in.

[edit on 22-2-2006 by Apoc]

Originally posted by Apoc
If you live in poverty in America it is by your own choice or bad choices.

No it's not. That's a myth.

There will always be a population living under the poverty level in a country that puts it's emphasis on wealth accumilation.

If everybody was earning a minimum of $100,000 a year then that 100,000 would lose it's value, and you would still have a poor population. The numbers just change.

There is also not enough good paying jobs for everybody to have one.
If the minimum wage was raised enough to get you out of poverty then again the economy would raise to match..catch 22.

There will never be a day when eveybody is wealthy under capitilism, which is it's major flaw. If everybody was suddenly wealthy the ecomony would collapse. Resources are kept artificialy scarse to keep that from happening.

Not that their arn't people who are poor for the reason you say, just that to say that's the only reason for poverty is rather naive.

Poverty is due to over consumption by the minority, and the whole concept of using resources, that are our birthright, to make money for the minority.

The use of money as a control tool is the problem, not laziness, not bad decisions.

Originally posted by Apoc
1. Prove the stats


America has the fattest poor of any nation in the world.

Source? Prove it.

Originally posted by Apoc
"Poor" in America is "Rich" by the rest of the worlds' standards.

Again, prove it.

Originally posted by Apoc
I can still remember when I just graduated college

The education apparently didn't help.

Originally posted by Apoc
... and got my 1st job that didn't pay all that much.

Doesn't that sort of make the case???

Originally posted by Apoc
I thought I was doing great because I had my own car, my own place, and still had beer money to spare.

I knew something was wrong when I went to the grocery, had to watch my food budget, yet saw fat unemployed scum buying snack food and steaks, which I could never afford, with food stamps.

Did you happen to publish any of your scientific observations?

Originally posted by Apoc
If you live in poverty in America it is by your own choice or bad choices.

Yeah, tell that to the children.

Did you even read Souljah's article?

Under President George W Bush an extra 5.4 million have slipped below the poverty line. Yet they are not a story of the unemployed or the destitute. Most have jobs. Many have two...

Even families with two working parents are often one slice of bad luck - a medical bill or factory closure - away from disaster. The minimum wage of $5.15 (£2.95) an hour has not risen since 1997 and, adjusted for inflation, is at its lowest since 1956. The gap between the haves and the have-nots looms wider than ever...

Originally posted by Apoc
I don't see many people leaving the country. Turns out the issue is too many people want in.

So stick your head in the sand and pretend nothing is wrong....

While I believe welfare is NOT the answer, I don't think that means we should ignore these numbers... :shk:

Your attitude would foreclose upon any discussion for improvement, and I happen to think that is wrong. We, in this country, are better than that.

Yeah, what everyone is saying is true. Apoc is right in a sense. So is Anok and Loam. Your choices determine how you live, and as Anok says, the system is designed to keep the poor--poor. There are factors that have nothing to do with whether or not you work hard for a living. Your chosen career path is also one of those factors--as well as the decisions you make.

On getting married and having children, Loam says, what about the children??? Well no one tells folk that can't afford to feed babies to have them. In this country there are a lot of choices for contraception. That doesn't mean once the babies are here they shouldn't be fed, or that poor folk shouldn't have children, but having children when you can't afford them is a cause of poverty and a personal decision that many take for granted. I support everything we do for the poor and I don't think it is enough, but that doesn't mean the factors that cause poverty doesn't include personal choices.

Basically, I agree with all three of you.

Originally posted by loam

Originally posted by Apoc
"Poor" in America is "Rich" by the rest of the worlds' standards.

Again, prove it.

Loam, it seems most everyone just passed over my earlier post, but the point it makes, if you click the link is, that 85% of the world's population live on less than $2200 dollars a year. 20% of the world's population live on less than a $1.50 a day.




There's more information here at:

www.globalrichlist.com...

These statistics dont take into account the inflation of individual economies, or the cost of everyday goods. I assure you a loaf of bread in Ethopia doesnt cost $2.29 USD. Just like they can't get a nice apartment for $650 a month.

In terms of how our money is distributed, the states has an enormous problem with a flux of poor, and the steady disappearance of our middle class. Are these people eating worms and drinking from dirty rivers?..no they arent. So maybe we arent quite as poor as other nations, but in the land of Milk and Honey, where we have luxury cars, expensive seafood, country clubs, etc...why is anyone starving, or going to bed on a park bench? Tis the inherent evil of capitalism. So long as we have a system in which the rich feed on the disadvantaged to further their riches, we will always have a very skewed economic distribution.

I have said before: There are literally hundreds of CEOs that make more money on their lunch break than the avg. person makes in a lifetime. Do they earn it? How do we justify this?

We say that if you work hard to achieve goals you can be rich because these same people need to quiet their conscious enough to sleep at night.

Originally posted by Jadette
Just to put a few things in perspective, take this little meme test.

Just how rich are you, when compared to everyone in the world?

It's basicly an ad for Care International, to raise awareness about global poverty, and to, of course, ask for donations.

We are obsessed with wealth. But we gauge how rich we are by looking upwards at those who have more than us. This makes us feel poor.

We wanted to do something which would help people understand, in real terms, where they stand globally. And make us realise that in fact most of us (who are able to view this web page) are in the privileged minority.

www.globalrichlist.com...

I believe that site has good intentions, but is way off point. I'm richer than 5.5 billion other people with my wage of $5 an hour? HA

They don't put it into perspective. In Africa, I seriously doubt tribes need to pay taxes. I bet they're allowed to just cut down any tree they want for housing and spear any animal they want to eat. If I try that in the US, I get arrested.

That's the US's poor are so hopeless. There's no free land to live on.

37 million, less see that is a whopping 15% of the population. Maybe it may have something to do with the 28 million illegal aliens in the USA working for less than minimum wage. In Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union more than 60 million people live on less than $2 a day. Sorry but this problem does not have the made in America stamp on it!


topics.developmentgateway.org...


Poverty is world wide problem and there are many countries that are in far worse shape than America. But we do have a problem. Then there is the age old problem of how poverty is defined, the information is as outdated as the methods as shown in the following, the true amount could possibly be higher..........or it could be lower:

"I know virtually no one who thinks the current poverty line is an accurate measure of poverty," said Rebecca Blank, co-director of the National Poverty Center at the University of Michigan.

www.cbsnews.com...


I am what is called middle class, I have a good job, nice home, two cars and a boat. I am college educated and live an extremely comfortable life.
But I was born in a small rural town to a poor but loving family. I was taught that it was up to me to accept personal responsiblity for my own actions. I was taught if I wanted to make a place for myself in the world it started with a decent education. As JFK said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country!" Those words ring just as true today. In America there are opportunities but no one will force you to take advantage of them and break the "Cycle of Welfare". There are also alot of families that work multible jobs because they want more out of life, not because they have too. Sorry but it is not so cut and dry! It is not always the case but there are times when a persons station in life is their own choosing!








[edit on 22-2-2006 by WHOFLUNGGUM]

Originally posted by WHOFLUNGGUM

I am what is called middle class, I have a good job, nice home, two cars and a boat. I am college educated and live an extremely comfortable life.

Congratulations. My question:

If you got sick and/or lost your job, how long could you keep up your payments? ...Please be honest.

Saphronia said:

There are those in this country that get by doing nothing because of social programs that's wrong,...

There are also those who get by doing nothing because they were born wealthy, that's wrong.

Anok said:

Poverty is due to over consumption by the minority, and the whole concept of using resources, that are our birthright, to make money for the minority.

Heh, I always found that funny that resources are owned by those willing to extract them, from the planet that belongs to us all.
Hugo Chavez seems to understand his countrymens birthright to oils benefits.
But, capitalism says, "I got it, it's mine" why should I share these tree's, oil, gold, diamonds etc. with any of you!
Other issues make me angry too, like private property, why is it that a human being can own insane tracts of land, put up a no trespassing sign, on land that belongs to all, not to a holder of a deed.
But this is our system that divides us, the same system that makes you fight for a piece of the pie that should be staining ALL our lips, but no, greed insures that one man gets the whole pie, and if he feels like it, you may get a piece, but for a price.

[edit on 22-2-2006 by Toadmund]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Souljah
37 Million People Live in Poverty, yet Billions and Trillions of Dollars are ..

... given away to foreign lands in aid.
... given away to develop an AIDS vaccine for Africa.
... given away to build schools in Iraq.
... given away to rebuild the areas destroyed by the tsumani.
... given away to the Palestinians even when they danced for joy on 9/11.
... given away etc. etc. etc.
... given away when it should be spent here at home FIRST.

It's definately something that should STOP.

Agreed. We spend far too much money fixing other countries' problems.

- Attero

Originally posted by soficrow[/i

Congratulations. My question:

If you got sick and/or lost your job, how long could you keep up your payments? ...Please be honest.

Your question has nothing to do with the thread. But to answer I will say indefinitely due to the fact I am well insured, have substantial savings and have been planning for every such contingency all my adult life. Also I worked for everything that I have, nothing was given to me and getting to this point wasn't always easy, but I am nothing special and everything I have is well within reach of everysingle American.