Ballistics test suggests Cheney shooting incident cover-up

Thanks, Loam. He never had a prom date.



Looks only a mother could stand.

OK.

First off, I do agree that the tests could have been more scientific. BUT, at least they tried. Besides, how many ACTUAL scientists have their research criticized soundly in the peer review process? Of course, a lot, so don't expect more from non-scientists (except for that engineer).

That being said, I am surprised at how most of the people who say Alex is lying lie yourselves. To all of you who said Alex is saying Cheney shot the man on purpose, STOP LYING! He never said that; he said they were attempting to show that the range was less than 90 feet. How you jump from that to attempted murder is beyond me; maybe y'all have an agenda...

Hell, even on his radio show, when callers would call in suggesting foul play, he clearly stated that he does indeed believe it was an accident. So stop lying, it makes your opinion less credible. The reason he's making a big deal is because they broke the law (AGAIN!) in the aftermath of this event. He's pointing out how the professional liars are once again doing what they do best, lie.

I also believe it was an accident, but that there was also a cover-up. You have that weird thing MSNBC did with the beer statements, the sheriff being stalled, that article saying hunters blame Cheney, and the fact that this guy is a professional liar.

Originally posted by truthseeka
OK.

First off, I do agree that the tests could have been more scientific. BUT, at least they tried. Besides, how many ACTUAL scientists have their research criticized soundly in the peer review process? Of course, a lot, so don't expect more from non-scientists (except for that engineer).

That doesn't vindicate Jones from the scientific process. A cardboard cutout and a human being are not interchangable in ballistics tests, and results gained from a test using one cannot be used to infer information about the other.

That being said, I am surprised at how most of the people who say Alex is lying lie yourselves. To all of you who said Alex is saying Cheney shot the man on purpose, STOP LYING! He never said that; he said they were attempting to show that the range was less than 90 feet. How you jump from that to attempted murder is beyond me; maybe y'all have an agenda...

It wasn't me that came up with that-- another poster in a different thread referred to Cheney (in all seriousness) as a "gun-toting psychopath". And of course I have an agenda...

Hell, even on his radio show, when callers would call in suggesting foul play, he clearly stated that he does indeed believe it was an accident. So stop lying, it makes your opinion less credible. The reason he's making a big deal is because they broke the law (AGAIN!) in the aftermath of this event. He's pointing out how the professional liars are once again doing what they do best, lie.

1) What does Jones believe was covered up?
2) I'm not lying, and don't tell me what to do.
3) 'Credibility' and 'opinion' are mutually exclusive things.
4) What is Cheney lying about? He said it was an accident, and Jones seems to agree, thanks to some manner of semantic sleight-of-hand.

I also believe it was an accident, but that there was also a cover-up. You have that weird thing MSNBC did with the beer statements, the sheriff being stalled, that article saying hunters blame Cheney, and the fact that this guy is a professional liar.

The upshot of all of this is that a person was shot (accidentally, according to you, me, him, and those chumps Cheney and Jones) and he's doing fine now. I don't see where the conspiracy is in all this. What I do see are a bunch of Democrat sheep wasting valuable energy trying to demonize Cheney over some unimportant bullcrap when there are far more important things going on right now.

If this is anything, it's a red herring to draw the eyes of the public away from the wiretapping scandal, the further burgeoning of the Patriot act, the powder keg in Iran, and the collossal SNAFU that was and still is Iraq.

Stop trying to make every item in the news into a major conspiracy to blame on the Bush administration. They've done plenty wrong without your help-- if you want to do something valuable with your time, work on righting some of the real wrongs that have been, and are being, committed. Fight for your freedoms, not against Dick Cheney's.

[edit on 18-2-2006 by The Parallelogram]

Parralelogram hit it on the head. All were lookin at here is an accident. I dont understand how there can be a conspiracy here when the guy left the hospital today. He himself stated it was an accident. To me, these facts make anything anyone can use to say this was a conspiracy, null.

Trying to perform a scientific test is admirable.

Trying to pass that attempt off as evidence of coverups and sinister activity isn't.

Sorry, but from the looks of that piece, if Cheney ever dropped a banana peel on the floor Jones would drop one in front of a dummy and prove it to be Cheney's attempt at assassinating someone...

At a certain point you begin to question Mr. Jones' real goal. Is he just out to make Cheney look shadier? Cheney does a fine job of that on his own without stuff like this.

[edit on 2-19-2006 by Djarums]

It's obviously an accident. Cheney may have been a bit drunk.

What concerns me is the amount of energy expended on all this nonsense when Cheney's real nefariousness goes relatively unremarked.

Through 'no-bid' contracts for Halliburton and KBR, he has dispensed enormous amounts of money to his cronies, who are still - last I heard - paying him a retainer and who can be relied upon to reward him even more richly when his time in office is at an end.

He has helped engineer a war crime in the illegal invasion of Iraq.

He has revealed the identity of a CIA agent, which is supposed to be illegal.

And yet, all this nonsense about one very wealthy lawyer whom he winged with birdshot? There are around 100,000 people in Iraq who have been killed (sorry, 'liberated') because of this man and the people around him. It's sad that many US citizens care so little about the hundreds of thousands of people around the world killed and maimed with their funding and connivance.

You know, if we combined the ammount of coverage for Cheney's accident, plus the investigative integrity of Oprah when interviewing James Frey, plus maybe the exposure of the American Idol scandal, we may have actually proved that the administration lied to us about Iraq.

What a shame, we're more concerned about accidents, and authors who lie, and celebreties who cheat, then we are about what our government does.

God Bless America.

Hey, that's precisely the point.

The idea here is to catch Cheney in a lie and expose him for the liar and crook that he is. See, it appeared that this would be an issue that could really bring his credibility into question.

And you know what? That is so lame. The American public is so stupid at this point that they ignore the OBVIOUS crooked things Cheney has done. All the Halliburton stuff is public, yet nobody cares. PNAC is PUBLIC, yet nobody cares. Do you understand that? PNAC OPENLY says that Saddam was not a threat and outlined a list of countries to be invaded; coincidentally, the invasions of countries have EXACTLY mirrored the list so far.

Do you understand that Cheney et al. openly said that we need a new Pearl Harbor type event to get people behind the war? Do you understand that after 9/11, EVERYONE was behind invading countries that "attacked" us? See, all this extremely damning evidence that Cheney and the Bush cabal are liars pushing a globalist agenda just rolls off the average person as crap-filled lies.

So, why not resort to such a minor distraction event such as this accident? It's just like busting mobsters for tax evasion instead of for whacking people or ordering whacks. It really bothers me that the REAL issues don't mean jack shat to most people.

Mr.Cheney, the devil incarnate, will come out of this smelling like a rose.

His followers will be more in love with him. Poor, poor, Dick.

Why this is a larger issue to you people than Vince Foster I'll never know. If you folks really want to nail him to a cross, why do you keep distracting yourselves with these teeny-tiny trivial matters? Newsflash! A hunting accident is not going to get him out of office, even if he sucks at estimating yardage. If I was Dick Cheney I'd love people like you, cause you make my job that much easier, and getting so worked up over such a small matter only hurts your credibility, not his. Ever heard of a story called "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"?

BTW, Can anyone here accurately, within 1 foot, estimate 25 yards, 35 yards, and 40 yards? Also, would you rather drive with Teddy Kennedy, or hunt with Dick Cheney?

Now we just need to sit back, and wait for the earth-shattering blockbuster docudrama from Michael Moore about this major Cheney conspiracy.

Mod Edit: Quoting Etiquette – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 19-2-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

As interesting as some of these posts have been, this is not PTS. The subject is whether or not a ballistics test reaveals a cover-up, which is a conspiracy issue.

Those of you who prefer to debate politics, please post your comments on the Cheney shooting incident here:
politics.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 19-2-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Speaking with experience as an avid skeet and trap shooter I can tell you for certain this test was beyond laughable.

according to the source it stated they used the following for testing

Shotgun: 18 inch barreled Remington 870 Marine Magnum
Round: 12 gauge 2¾ Remington Heavy Dove 1-1/8 oz #8 Birdshot
source

Kindly note they not only used a completely different gun they also used a magnum load which makes it even more laughable.

Cheney no doubt used and Italian made fire arm more then likely and over and under and would have used a normal load not magnum. A magnum would have blown the bird to bits making it useless for eating, for crying out load. In case most of you do not know it the average weight of a quail is around 7/8 ounces. There is yet another big mistake on the testing part they used a gun with and 18 inch barrel. Hello anyone who has ever hunted quail with a 28 gauge knows the recommended barrel length is 26 to 28 inches also it would probably have had a modified choke. DUH

Anyone asserting this was a scientific test needs their head examined. :shk:

I'm just surprised some on the far left haven't tried using this incident to disarm the American populace through "gun control" measures.
Remember, the accident never would have happened had guns been illegal.

[edit on 19-2-2006 by SpecAgentDW]

Originally posted by Djarums

Sorry, but from the looks of that piece, if Cheney ever dropped a banana peel on the floor Jones would drop one in front of a dummy and prove it to be Cheney's attempt at assassinating someone...
[edit on 2-19-2006 by Djarums]

Sigh, again, stop lying.

Damn, where in the piece did Jones say Cheney intentionally shot the guy? Why flat-out lie like this?

Anyway, someone actually covered the test Jones did. I admit, I am shocked.

storytoday.tv...

Lookit, don't we have any hunters out here that see no issue with this story?
Alex is a sensationalism hound, looking for an angle. Like many people who used to make sense, he is going down the path of the dollar. He isn't the first to do that (Right, Jessie?) and he won't be the last.

Given some more distance between the two old guys and the SS would have been busy disarming Cheney's friend while he tries to return fire after being peppered. It really SMARTS! Or so I've been told by dopey bird hunters down through the years.