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The Rapture?

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posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 12:04 PM
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So, for all of those out there who believe in the rapture, I'm just curious.

On what Biblical grounds does the idea of the rapture come from?

Most Christian sects I've read about and studied seem to take the Rapture for fact, and seem to base the concept on one small scripture, found in Luke chapter 17. Here's the excerpt that you will hear most often quoted:

30 It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.

31 On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything.

32 Remember Lot's wife!

33 Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left.

35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.

36 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.

I understand by reading these verses alone, perhaps you would think that some of these people are being taken away from the earth, or something like that. But if you read the final verse in the chapter, it clearly shows that this is not the case:

37 "Where, Lord?" they asked. He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."

So IMO Jesus here was talking about the many casualties and deaths we will see prior to his second coming, not about some strange mystical event where half the worlds population is simultaniously taken from the earth.

But, there is much written abot the subject. To the point of almost being rediculous. For example, visit this website, and read what they have lined up and understood, all extrapolated from this one small set of verses (they even have Elizabeth Taylor on there!):

Rapture Ready Timeline

So my question is, where did all this frenzy for the rapture come from? Is it just a result of people wanting to believe that they are truly better than those hwo live their lives in a way different from theirs, and so they will be rewarded as such? I'm just curious, and I don't mean to offend when I say that.




posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 05:27 PM
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IMHO, after spending my life in various belief systems, I believe the rapture will be when the Motherships arrive to pluck the believers off this planet and bring them back after the earth changes are over.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 07:37 PM
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Hi,

I was raised in the typical protestant church telling us about this pre-trib rapture so I just said what I was taught. When I started studying on my own, I became more than convinced from a multitude of examples, parables, and direct statements, that the rapture is 45 days after the end
of the tribulation period ends.

Christians will go through the tribulation (fast approaching). Many will die
in persecution from the world. All will be raptured and resurrected 1335 days after the mark of the beast system is put in place.

The reason for the rapture is that we are not destined for God's wrath as the world is. We will go through the time when judgments occur on the world (like the plagues of Egypt the last 7 days before they let the Israelites go) and believers will be unaffected by them. We will however, suffer persecution from the unbelieving.

After the tribulation has produced the fruit God is looking for in the lives of believers, He will harvest that fruit in the rapture and destroy the surface of this world for 1 year. Then we will all return for the millenial kingdom to a cleansed earth.

We are destined to be here doing the judgments of the tribulation, but not the wrath of God. Most Christians do not understand the difference between these judgments coming and the ultimate wrath of God.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 08:06 PM
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The 1 taken, 1 left part in Matthew 24/Luke 17, etc is confusing to many Christians. A lot of people think God took them. Not true. The only other example of this word is when Enoch was and then was not for Good took him.

In Matthew 24, it is not stated that God took them, but rather they will be taken. I believe that this refers to the captivity of people in this final beast kingdom. A curious parallel is how Zechariah 14 talks about half of the city (God's people in the New Testament) will be taken captive.

The frenzy of the rapture comes from a laodecian church viewpoint. See if you can follow me on this description:

Throughout the latest 1700 years or so, Christians gradually allowed some departures in practices from the word of God. As a result, Christians slowly stopped experiencing the miracles, power in Spirit, and provision of the Lord in their daily lives. There were small decisions made where the daily life of the believers departed from God's word in small ways. Rather than seeking where the gap in belief and behavior was, pastors, priests decided to create a theology where God does not provide these things for His people anymore. So, they don't experience the fulness of God because God changed, not that these pastors and priests introduced error and minor points of unbelief (insidious) into the churches.

This introduction of error and tradition into the churches and the watering down of the description of God's power and provision for the church has gradually grown and pastors and priests (who naturally assume that they must be doing the right things and believing the right things before the Lord) start telling the people that the watered down experience of God is all they can expect. God has changed how he will deal with his people (dispensationalism).

Now, we know what the word says about the person who suffers in the flesh ceases from sin. We learn not to sin through our suffering here.
All sin before God has its root in unbelief - all sin. If you think about it, it is true.

The modern church now days teaches an easy grace from God that does not require a fight to be converted in our souls from the old flesh man to the new spirit man. I have experienced this fight within myself in the last two years big time. Without faith in God through this fight, you cannot please him.

The tribulation will occur for the sake of the believers in Christ. It is the time when the Lord will lead His people out of this world into a wilderness experience. In the wilderness experience, we will be forced to depend only on the Lord. There will be no help at all from the world system (cannot buy or sell). In that environment, the believers will learn to depend on the Lord and not be double minded. As Christians in the modern, we are often double minded. If God does not provide something, then we go to plan B. That's double minded. He wants to be our provider but will not compete with you providing for yourself.

Those who hold to a pre-trib rapture who have studied this often have or were taught by someone who had an underlying motive for preaching this doctrine. It is still the same old argument that believers today are doing great, exercising great faith, and are just what God is looking for. Sorry, that doesn't play with God. He is bringing help to bring us into His image as He intended as He wraps up this world. And we need Him to do this for us.

Many christians will die in persecution and fall away from the faith for two reasons:

1. They believed a pre-tribulation rapture and "God lied to them". No, He didn't. People did. His word does not lie about this.

2. They believe they are just doing great in faith in the Lord so it must be a mean God who puts this trouble on them.

This is particularly deadly because they will be reprobated by God when they take that mark of the beast and lose their salvation at that time. They will become part of the corporate Son of Perdition who will hunt for and persecute other Christians.

We believe in the pre-trib rapture because it is easier to live with in our flesh to believe we are just doing great before the Lord in faith, we have need of nothing (sound familiar? Laodecia) and we are just waiting to go. We haven't produced much of the fruit Jesus is looking for in our lives, but that's OK. We haven't done the greater works Jesus spoke of, but that's OK. Wrong. God has a right to demand the fruit from His investment in us and He will have a spotless bride. There are too many tares in the church right now and they will be shaken out when the pressure starts. When the church is no longer an advanced Rotary club, but a group of people who have given their lives over to Jesus, then it comes closer to being a spotless bride.

The pre-trib rapture is a doctrine that appeals to the flesh, the same flesh that God says is at enmity with Him. That's why people cling to it. Unfortunately, denial will not pan out for many this time.


[edit on 17-2-2006 by managerie]

[edit on 17-2-2006 by managerie]



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 07:31 AM
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The idea that the rapture is before the tribulation may be the biggest thing that a mistake in the ible could be. it means that there is the ultimate test of faith, as people who believe thay will not be there when the tribulation comes will be tested greatly. they will have two options, take the mark of the beast, save their mortal life, but lose their immortal souls life(ie they go to hell). Or they can deny the beast and be killed, but keep their immortal soul.



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Garden Spider
On what Biblical grounds does the idea of the rapture come from?
So my question is, where did all this frenzy for the rapture come from.


There are a bunch of threads about this on BTS.
There is no biblical grounds for a rapture.
It was a cult invented by failed Anglican priest
Nelson Darby in the mid 1800's. The 'easy out'
was great soul-candy to sell to the masses
and thus you have bunches of fundamentalists
who believe in 'rapture'.

See BTS for all the pro/con on this. Tons of
info from both sides of the discussion.

Here's just one -
www.belowtopsecret.com...





[edit on 2/21/2006 by FlyersFan]



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 07:17 AM
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Don't flame me, I can't remember where i have heard this. (It was on a coast to coast show though).

I believe that the rapture idea came from the Elesians, and they had a word for it(Can't remember it). Somthing about god taking them. The word, translated into english meant literally somthing. The world .. thats right!

The word was called the rapture by someone, but, the word (In this guys point of veiw) he would have called it The Great Snatch.

I'm not too sure if i believe this, i'd have to see proof in the bible to believe it.

I'll research for an answer.



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 07:33 AM
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You have voted managerie for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

I must say this is a rare time when someone on this site gets it right.


The rapture is AFTER the end of the tribulation, far too many "churchies" don't care about the end times because "I won't be here, god will spare me the pain and rapture me out"

Perhaps this is why so many ignore th upcoming iranian nuclear crisis............"Who cares I won't be here" is a sick and scary attitude.



posted on Feb, 26 2006 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by thermopolis
You have voted managerie for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

I must say this is a rare time when someone on this site gets it right.


The rapture is AFTER the end of the tribulation, far too many "churchies" don't care about the end times because "I won't be here, god will spare me the pain and rapture me out"

Perhaps this is why so many ignore th upcoming iranian nuclear crisis............"Who cares I won't be here" is a sick and scary attitude.


Here Here!! This is part of the great deception that would fool the very elect. This can't be the mark, I'm still here! It's part of the 'strong delusion' that will deceive those who haven't received a love of the truth.

Kudos to managerie!!




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