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The Amazing Randy - Your Opinion?

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posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 11:29 AM
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The Amazing Randy is a guy who offers $1 million US to anyone who can prove they have some sort of paranormal power, be it telekinesis, telepath, ESP - whatever.

Many have been tested by him - all have been proven to be hoaxers.

What is your take?




posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 12:31 PM
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We've discussed him numerous times already.

There are enough ways for him to prove paranormal abilities to himself. He can learn to do astral projection for example and together with his buddies test if they can view events away from their physical bodies which they could never be able to see because of physical limitations. Or meet other astral projectors...

IMO the man is a fraud and will never give up the 1 mil. Even if 25 ghosts pinched him in the butt at the same time.



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 02:58 PM
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I think he would give up the money.

He is not closed minded, like a lot of us he wants scientific proof of paranormal events. Its not an unreasonable request really. Why if these things are all true, according to some people, can you not repeat them in controlled conditions...

I think he will give up the money because he is waiting for definitive proof and when it comes, he will believe it. Though it needs to be conclusive proof i suppose.
Thats what bothers me most about the paranormal and particularly some people who post on this board. It dismays me that they are so reactionary and ready to believe. Whatever happened to rationality? When you ask someone to back up their views or there claims of powers they, dont. I wonder wether this is actually cant.
I am open minded about the paranormal but I need proof. I firmly believe that supernatrual events are all just parts of science we dont yet understand. Until we can understand them they remain fantastical.
People misunderstand goings on and attribute them to paranormal happenings when nine times out of ten this is just something normal they dont understand. I think I know why this is... Religion has moved out of our lives as a dominante force, and people need something to define and justify their existance.
I am by no means trying to insult peoples beliefs, I would just like to see a world of faith turned into a world of understanding.

Forgive me this has turned into something of a rant but I needed to share!
Thanks
Dan



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by bigdanprice
I think he would give up the money.

He is not closed minded, like a lot of us he wants scientific proof of paranormal events. Its not an unreasonable request really. Why if these things are all true, according to some people, can you not repeat them in controlled conditions...


Because there's a big factor not being considered. Mental states, which can be influenced. There are lots of factors which influence your mental state, like stress, illness, worries etc... You can't guarantee to AP or have lucid dreams every night or everytime you attempt to do so.


Thats what bothers me most about the paranormal and particularly some people who post on this board. It dismays me that they are so reactionary and ready to believe. Whatever happened to rationality? When you ask someone to back up their views or there claims of powers they, dont. I wonder wether this is actually cant.


They're ready to try things out. IMO they're the real ones looking for proof. Not the ones sitting on the fence. There are thousands of methods in books, video's and on the internet to train or teach you in certain ways to duplicate paranormal events yourself. You don't need anybody to do it for you. These people are actually doing it for themselves, and trying to prove it or find the proof themselves, isn't that being the most rational?

How would you know what it feels like to be in a basketball game if you don't actually pick up the ball?? People like Randi have never touched a basketball before, but want to say that a 3-pointer is impossible to shoot.



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 03:29 PM
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You misunderstand me. I am saying that people are too ready to believe things are paranormal.
I firmly believe that AP and other such things are real phenomena, that are yet to be understood by science. Until we now how and to some extent why... we cannot use them to their full potenial.
Science is not contradictory to these things, science is a way of understanding the world around us, we need to understand what these things are.

By commiting yourself to them with out understanding you may even be putting yourself in danger. Also I think though you need to be cautious about believing things without evidence. Who is to say one personal had a paranormal experience and someone else just had a hallucination. Waiting to see how we can understand these things is a much more rational approach. Anything else, be it total faith, or total denial, is closed minded and naive.


Dan



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 04:45 PM
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Bigdanprice, that's exactly how I feel. People claim that being rational is the same as being closed minded. I find this frightful to say the least. Why, if we're here to deny ignorance, do we blindly walk into a room about to go up in flames?

Ignorance must be denied both on the side that won't believe it true, and on the side that will believe anything true.

Now, this Randy guy's got a good thing going. I hope someone is able to be proven true by him.

Sure, these things may exist - but unless we can actually see it with consistency in a controlled environment, then it's being controlled by something else.

For example, Astral Projection. Probably the worst case you can use to "prove" telekinesis and other phenomenon. For a very simple reason: they're dreams.

Now, I admit, that's massively simplified to describe a TRUE astral projection - but the story that is told afterwards works the same way. It's difficult to remember, nothing is often learned, it's not easily reproduceable. It's also the most easy story to bias.

Let's say you really want to Astral Project - and you're already pretty good at Lucid Dreaming. At what point do you KNOW yourself to have astral projected yourself, and not just to be lucid dreaming? Really, I'd like an answer to that. I'm not saying that some people here can't do it - I'm just asking, where's the distinction?

Of course, the person who is just lucid dreaming instead of astral projecting will BELIEVE themselves to have astral projected instead of lucidly dreamt - because they want to believe it and "it was so real". These people then toss around their stories, which incite others who study them to learn to astral project, or to do things differently in their astral projects (which may also be just lucid dreams). In the end, a sort of "unity" begins to form out of half-truths and loose connections.

Just to clarify again, I'm not saying that AP doesn't exist - just that it is the WORST thing to claim as proof of psychic powers. It's unreliable - pure and simple - as only dreams can be.



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 05:06 PM
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I wouldnt mind having a go at verifying something whilst having an OBE, shame he lives a zillion miles away though



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 05:19 PM
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I'm thinking about one thing... many people have filmed and put on the Net their experiments with the Psi Wheel... recently we've even followed a project about telekinesis, and if i'm not mistaken it has showed some results (and some of them have also been filmed, IIRC)... so, why hasn't any one got that million $ yet?

If i had managed to obtain a reasonable percentage of successes with the Psi Wheel, i would have already tried to claim such a bunch of bucks!!



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by Yarium
Bigdanprice, that's exactly how I feel. People claim that being rational is the same as being closed minded. I find this frightful to say the least. Why, if we're here to deny ignorance, do we blindly walk into a room about to go up in flames?


That's not what I mean. Being rational is being rational. Exploring to find out some thing is something different. Of course you have to know what you're doing and what you're getting yourself into. But if you don't try it out, you'll never really know now, won't you?


Ignorance must be denied both on the side that won't believe it true, and on the side that will believe anything true.


see above..


Now, this Randy guy's got a good thing going. I hope someone is able to be proven true by him.


I doubt it. I personally am not convinced he even has the intention to prove it. We've had discussions about it before.


Sure, these things may exist - but unless we can actually see it with consistency in a controlled environment, then it's being controlled by something else.


And untill now there are very few people who are able to control that other factor, which IMO is the mental state.


For example, Astral Projection. Probably the worst case you can use to "prove" telekinesis and other phenomenon. For a very simple reason: they're dreams.


IMO it's the other way around. But I am not yet 100% sure of that. With more experience I can be more sure. People have claimed to meet others in the astral world when they have never met before in normal waking life. A study should be done on this at least. Furthermore there are the documented veridical NDE's (which are nothing different than Astral projections) There's enough evidence to show that people have witnessed events they could've never been able to know of due to obvious physical or physiological limitations.


Now, I admit, that's massively simplified to describe a TRUE astral projection - but the story that is told afterwards works the same way. It's difficult to remember, nothing is often learned, it's not easily reproduceable. It's also the most easy story to bias.


Not always (about the difficult to remember part), I remember all of my OBE's as clear as day. But I agree with the rest with my case though. I haven't learned much of it, because it's never lasted more than a minute with me and only once I've been able to leave the building my physical body was in at the time. But there are other people who have had lots of them and so who have had time to practise their abilities to move and travel while out of body. You can learn much more once you've learned to orientate and move yourself.


Let's say you really want to Astral Project - and you're already pretty good at Lucid Dreaming. At what point do you KNOW yourself to have astral projected yourself, and not just to be lucid dreaming? Really, I'd like an answer to that. I'm not saying that some people here can't do it - I'm just asking, where's the distinction?


It depends... Some people feel the intense vibrations they feel when they leave their body. And everything becomes much clearer, as clear as the monitor in front of you often. Sometimes even clearer than that. And some are often able to witness events happening in the physical world. Like when I had my first OBE, my phone started to ring. I was just as aware of it ringing as I would be right now if the phone rang while I was typing.


Of course, the person who is just lucid dreaming instead of astral projecting will BELIEVE themselves to have astral projected instead of lucidly dreamt - because they want to believe it and "it was so real".


No, mostly people are able to distinguish easily between the two.


Just to clarify again, I'm not saying that AP doesn't exist - just that it is the WORST thing to claim as proof of psychic powers. It's unreliable - pure and simple - as only dreams can be.


Again I disagree with you. It can be tested. Especially with people who have had lots of experience with it. And with that I mean people who have had more than 50 or hundreds of astral projections and who have a over 50% chance of getting an astral projection when they attempt to do so.



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by Ralph_The_Wonder_Llama
The Amazing Randy is a guy who offers $1 million US to anyone who can prove they have some sort of paranormal power, be it telekinesis, telepath, ESP - whatever.

Many have been tested by him - all have been proven to be hoaxers.

What is your take?


My take is that none of those tested have any actual psychic powers. Randi is not the only one offering $1 million to whoever can prove such a thing. The Nobel prize awaits as well, as does unparamounted fame (and the associated fortune).

So some want to complain about how impossible it is to meet the Randi challenge, fine. Why have they not submitted their work to scientific journals and the associated peer review then with the demands of repeatability? I suppose all the scientific journals are conspiring with Randi as well, as is the Nobel committee?

Ok then, bring your case to Oprah, or Penn and Teller. The fame and fortune will then compell you into the limelight where Randi, the scientific journals, and the Nobel comittee can not simply brush you off.

...or perhaps, the methods really are pseudo-science and even Oprah and Teller have figured that out. (Teller just isn't talkin').


HS

posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 01:12 AM
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The problem with me proving I am psychic is this. I had a premonition
that someone would soon show up and offer me a certain amount for an item at a garage sale. I had a whole bargaining scheme ready by the time they got there about 7 minutes later. Never seen them before or since then in about 2003. Knew exactly what they were going to end up
paying.
Never got pyschic that way again, although I had some intuition some people driving a 50,000.00 Cadillac were going to try and talk me out of something. The trouble with skeptics like Robert T. Carroll is they think pyschic events all fit the idea of theirs that they are reproducable. Spontaneous opening of the conscious intellect requires a person who is aware there are numerous possibilities in life. Obviously, Robert T. Carroll has not had a dream yet about where he will be in the future like some. Nor has he been harpooned yet by tiny little people skin diving off surfboards floating through the air. Neither have I, I kept my distance.

I have had my nerve endings pricked by the sensation of a pin so many times, I'd be like the guy on Hellraiser with pins all over a grid on his head, except it would be all of my body. The telepathic input from living people has somehow found just about every sensative nerve attached to my brain and made it real clear there must be a bunch of people who are intently, but subconsciously motivated to read my mind.

The thing is if someone somehow managed to access the feelings and mental images that go along with the terror that I received, then they would end up in the looney bin babbling and acting mighty strange to a lot of invisible creatures.


Nothing like a patient taking a chair to a 5 foot invisible spider crawling on the table. Might upset the other sane crazies.
NO NO NO
please don't read my mind........purty please.
You have to meditate for 35 years and practice having emotions first.
The effect of any of you getting a full visual download of the 50,000 mental interactive images I have witnessed would be like..........geeze way to intense, like the feeling of your worst nightmare times at least a hundred all at once. For that reason I am not having sex and blocking sexual encounters in my dreams also. Sex is a exchange of minds for a split second, and I sure don't want to give anybody a heart attack............hahahahha, yeah life is good........hehehehe.......I totally forgot what the topic was......hahahaa...think I'll keep it that way as long as possible.

HS



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 05:54 AM
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Criss Angel, David Blaine, and David Copperfield are three guys who could collect that cool million anytime they wanted. Randi must know that. So I feel he is actually working to help the reputation of magicians by exposing the charlatans.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 06:57 AM
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James Randi is a faker.

He was on TV awhile back, showing how he could fake mediumistic powers. He made an attempt, which worked, because he had people research one of the adudience members first.

It later transpired that he had made several attempts before hand with the same audience, but it hadn't worked. So they cut them from the show!

www.victorzammit.com...

They failed because he was using the ideas of general statements, deduction, observation etc.

They had a real psychic come and he was brilliant. He didn't skip from ideas if they didn't immeditely work. He would press the subjects and eventually in all counts he hade been right.

For instance he told a woman that she'd recently redecorated the area near a picture of her dead husband. She said no. He kept pressing her on and on. Then she said she had, but it was a couple of weeks ago, not recently.

The average faker would not have kept on like that.

This guy got almost everything right.

Randi then accuses him of being a fake and using the usual techniques.

The man is a fake.


And if there's anything stopping you from not believeing something, it's losing a million dollars!

Yeah,yeah, it's in the James Randi Trust. It's still making him a fortune in interest.



[edit on 17-2-2006 by albie]

mod edit: Do not circumvent the censors

[edit on 17-2-2006 by sanctum]



posted on Feb, 20 2006 @ 02:34 PM
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Randy is bollox. Not everyone he tested came out as frauds. He only posted the ones on his site that were tested positive. Positive as in Not having any paranormal abilities. However a certain man was trained by the government in the skill of Remote Viewing. Randy never acknowledged it. But why? Is he affraid his world will collapse and that he has to redefine personal ideals? Why not give the money - it's not even his to begin with seeing it was from a fund or investor.

I don't take this man seriously one bit. He's not worth the title Parapsychologist. Scientists are open for new ideas untill proven they either work or don't. This man already made up his mind and no matter how much proof someone delivers...he still won't believe it.

Just because certain things can be "proven" by scientific means doesn't mean all events happen in a similar way. Law of Chaos as well as the saying "there are more then 1 roads that lead to Rome"

[edit on 20-2-2006 by Enyalius]



posted on Feb, 20 2006 @ 03:19 PM
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Its like saying if you can stab yourself in the head twenty times I will give you a million dollars.

Hell I imagine anyone who has understood the risk of uncovering things to the masses didn't want to tell or show anyone. Assuming they have self control anymore. Most people need ritual to do anything in life without fate so if you have no ritual or fate you turn to two things for support. Take aguess what they are. Anyway yeah sure you can lift rocks transform and morph etc but you will come to the conclusion real fregin fast what you are doing and stop very fast.

Anyway power of prayer now go donate the money to the churches.

Now back to making my pyramid.



Originally posted by Ralph_The_Wonder_Llama
The Amazing Randy is a guy who offers $1 million US to anyone who can prove they have some sort of paranormal power, be it telekinesis, telepath, ESP - whatever.

Many have been tested by him - all have been proven to be hoaxers.

What is your take?



posted on Feb, 20 2006 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by Enyalius
Why not give the money - it's not even his to begin with seeing it was from a fund or investor.


If the guy has a real case, he could sue Randi for the money. Don't you think it's telling that he hasn't done so?


Originally posted by Enyalius
Scientists are open for new ideas untill proven they either work or don't.


Not exactly. They are open to new ideas when it is discovered existing theories are insufficient, or if a new theory is posited that explains observed phenomenon more comprehensively than prior theories. Further, new theories must have an inductive basis.

While it might be possible to come up with a theory of gravity that exactly matches what we observe based on the beating of angel wings, it would not be given serious consideration unless throwing angel wings into the mix can be shown to be a valid induction from what is known.

The problem with the paranormal is twofold. First, there are no paranormal observations. All observations used as evidence for paranormal claims are normal, albeit unusual. Since we have no paranormal observations, it isn't a valid induction to conclude a paranormal source unless you first eliminate all possible normal sources.

The second problem is that paranormal claims repeatedly fail to stand up to scientific inquiry, even in a statistical sense. If someone could show they have the ability to predict the outcome of a coin toss better than 50%, and an experiment were performed that showed them right 50.1% of the time over thousands of tosses with various coins in double blind experiments, it could not be denied they had such a capability. However, it could still be legimately denied that the ability is paranormal in nature, because of problem (1).



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 05:16 AM
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Nor do they welcome evidence contrary to their own conclusions. OOParts are a perfect example. They do not fit, so they are ignored.
Just as paranormal, or psychic abilities are. I have seen psychic ability in person, that was good enough for me. Such as David Young, a local medium, making my friends mom cry by sharing a secret with her, that only she and her late husband knew. He had first said that H. (her husbands name), wanted to tell her something. The fact he pulled his name out of the air got her attention, but the secret was too much and she bawled.
It would be interesting to see an explanation for the Chriss Angel 'trick' where he wrote some numbers down, sealed them in an envelope which he gave to the DJ at the station he was interviewed at, which was later opened, after the lottery draw, and the numbers matched. What are the odds? 1 in 14 million, first try. Good guess if he's not psychic.


XVX

posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 02:55 AM
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Randi is more like Carl Sagan. Carl wanted badly to see proof of extraterrestrials. He wasnt out to disprove, but to prove an exciting discovery.

Randi is similar. What an exciting discovery it would be and ironically, he would get created for it.

I work in physics and while I dont play basketball, I can tell you with absolute certainty that if the ball is released from rest at a point below the hoop, the ball will never go in the hoop, unless some other forces acts upon it.

There are things Physicists can tell you even though they've never participated in the activity. Randi is simply trying to conduct an experiment that meets scientific standards. How is that fraudulant? He's not going to stick his name on a paper if he doesn't support it.

Science doesnt deny discoveries, it welcomes them. Thats how we further expand our knowledge.



posted on Feb, 24 2006 @ 06:31 AM
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IMHO - the only " problem " with randis approach is what i call the ` cat skinners falacy ` - ie when a person claims to have psychic powers - randis debunk is to replicate thier results by his own means

that does not proove that the claimants powers were not psychic - only that the observed result can be achieved by alternate means

rather like skinning a cat - some people make the first cut under the chin , others start under the tail


neither is right or wrong - just different







 
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