NEWS: Saddam Talked Of WMD Attack in US

Originally posted by marg6043
The only problem is that it was all from the nineties and is very well know that one of the reasons for invations after the MWDs were no found was because Saddam thought about making MWDs or had intentions of making them.

No that he had them.

Pity. it proves nothing, just another efford to justify what is already done and deal with can we move on or the Republican party is so scare of losing the congress that has to bring this all back as a reminder.

[edit on 16-2-2006 by marg6043]

maybe you didnt listen to the tapes / cd's .
i guess it wouldnt matter even if you heard saddam himself in person tell you , that he was going to make them and use them to kill people.


america will always be evil in your eyes.

Originally posted by Regenmacher
And your point is showing us you lack the intelligence to fathom what defines hypocrisy or timing?

I ask you to stop the insults and you respond with more rethoric and insults?....

What is the matter Regenmacher, is your intelligence so high and mighty that you don't need to present any evidence to back your argument but instead you resort to insulting those who disagree with you?

Are you once again going to anwser with more insults and belittling comments, or are you going to present "facts" to back up your argument?

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Also you lack the comprehension of what I wrote.

I can see exactly what you meant in your response. You regard those who disagree with you as "dogs doing their master's work" but you don't seem to comprehend that people can disagree with your views and points without being the puppets of anyone else. i guess for you someone has to agree with you on everything in order for you to regard them as "intelligent."

Originally posted by Regenmacher
So what part did I argue in regards to Saddam should not be ousted?

I remember somebody arguing that this piece of news was some sort of dismissal to the "new photos of Abu Ghraib" which btw are not new.

Originally posted by Regenmacher
You seem to be void of seeing the big picture and assume things out of thin air, cause your so wrapped up in parroting partisan nonsense, you lack the ability to see things independently or outside the box. It has nothing to do with your fragile ego and how you think everything is a personal attack. If I wanted to evoke your dictatorial blather, the header would of had your name on it.

You first insult my intelligence and "label me or anyone who disagrees with your view as dogs doing their master's work" and now you try to label us as parrots without a mind of our own?.....

You must be extremely naive, and lack the intelligence you are trying to mirror on others, to think your personal insults and belittling comments would not be seen as nothing more than....insults and belittling comments....

BTW let me show you what some good research can dig up and see if it is true that intelligence agencies view the conversations in these tapes as something old.

The Saddam Tapes
Intelligence Summit
Arlington, VA
February 18, 2006

Technical Points

Audio was segmented to fit the number of words readable per Powerpoint slide.
Translation was more literal than otherwise.
[Unintelligible] can not be clearly heard. Words in italics are heard but not understood because they are local Tikriti dialect, Baath Party jargon, technical, etc.
........................
Removal of Warheads

From Tape ISGC-2003-M0003997
Beginning of Tape

Unidentified Male

I notice, sir, that the people’s resolution to serve the battle is very high. They can not insult our resolve, no matter the time.
This brings me to what I notice among them. Despite the pressure of their surveillance, and our not using all our capabilities in the missile area - the time period is not important to them. What is the time period going to be?

For us, the factories mujzab [indistinct] in our fields. The factories are present. How much material do we have? How much equipment do we have?
The factories remain, in the mind they remain. Our spirit is with us. Four days ago there was the Said Madari missile, three Hijaba missiles,

We put them out from what was available from what he have done a year ago, two years ago, and five years ago. Based solely on the time period, and they take note of the time period, they can’t account for our will, which grows stronger with each passing day.

The rest of the transcript is long but can be found at.
www.intelligencesummit.org...

If you do a search on the website i provided above you will find all the agencies and people attending this summit.

Notice the date of the summit....

According to the information in that link we can see that the intelligence agencies of the world do think these tapes to be some new information, or important enough to bring up now.

Anything else you would like to add appart from belittling comments and insults? or is that all you have to back your points?

Originally posted by Briggs

maybe you didnt listen to the tapes / cd's .

Why should I? is Saddam still a tread to me? no, is Saddam a tread to you? no, is Saddam a tread to the US? no.

The media is doing a great job spreading the propaganda.

i guess it wouldnt matter even if you heard saddam himself in person tell you , that he was going to make them and use them to kill people.

Did he kill anybody in the West? no, did he kill anybody close to you? no, did he kill anybody next to me? no.

So actually his Thinking of MWDs didn't harm anybody as far as I am concern at least in the US.

america will always be evil in your eyes.

That is actually a very weak rethoric.

Saddam tapes are old, they were not that important earlier or before the invasion so now you want me to believe. . . another propaganda stunt because public opinion is still very low.

You go ahead and memorized the tapes because that will make you happy, still it makes not difference.

The topic is getting old, and so your comment in regards to me.

Need a better line to justify the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Originally posted by marg6043

Why should I? is Saddam still a tread to me? no, is Saddam a tread to you? no, is Saddam a tread to the US? no.

Of course Saddam is not a threat anymore, he was ousted.

Originally posted by marg6043
The media is doing a great job spreading the propaganda.

I doubt it is propaganda. The intelligence agencies are at this moment discussing what they found in those tapes as well as other evidence they have gathered and what has been learned.

Originally posted by marg6043
Did he kill anybody in the West? no, did he kill anybody close to you? no, did he kill anybody next to me? no.

First, I doubt you can say for certain whether or not Saddam's terrorist connections lead to the death of Americans in the U.S. He did have terrorist connections and according to several international intelligence agencies he was planning on killing Americans in U.S. soil as well as abroad.

Second of all, unless you know the other member personally I doubt you can also say for certain whether or not any of his family members have been killed by Saddam harboring and helping terrorists.

Originally posted by marg6043
Saddam tapes are old, they were not that important earlier or before the invasion so now you want me to believe. . . another propaganda stunt because public opinion is still very low.

Not according to international intelligence agencies which are at this moment discussing those tapes as part of their summit Marg. I doubt they made up this summit to make you think that these tapes are authentic or something they have discussed before.

Originally posted by marg6043
The topic is getting old, and so your comment in regards to me.

Need a better line to justify the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Why is it that this "topic is getting old" yet when old pictures of Abu Ghraib, which the media did not release before but had them, are suddenly something new?

Don't you see the irony?


Anyways, here is the link again to the intelligence summit Marg, in which those tapes of Saddam are being discussed.

I doubt that the international intelligence agencies gathered just to make the world believe this tape is something new.


[edit on 18-2-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
Jehosephat...the ones to give most of the wmd and other military weaponry to Iraq, and to Iran now, were Russia, China, and a few European countries....
The country that Saddam owed the most money to was Russia, because of the arm deals they had, even when the sanctions were in place.

BTW, in case you don't know the sanctions didn't work because countries like Russia were still selling banned weaponry to iraq in exchange for oil. Perhaps you have heard of the Oil for Food scandal? If you haven't do a search and you will see what the sanctions worked for.

In 1982 the Reagan administration removed Iraq from the U.S. State Department's list of countries sponsoring terrorism. This opened the gate to U.S. trade and support of Iraq during the war with Iran. In 1983 the Reagan administration secretly administered the channelling of U.S. aid to Iraq, after special envoy Donald Rumsfeld helped formally reestablish relations cut off in the Six-Day War of 1967.

The Washington Post reported that in 1984 the CIA secretly started feeding intelligence to the Iraqi army. This included assistance in targeting chemical weapons strikes. The same year it was confirmed beyond doubt by European doctors and U.N. expert missions that Iraq was employing chemical weapons against the Iranians.

Yes I agree America wasn't the only one, but there were another player invovled in the pre-gulf war of aiding Iraq. We do know that the Oil-for-food program netted the Iraqi Regieme billions of dollars, but most of that was used to aid Terrorists orginizations and not WMD funding. Becasue of the close tabs the IAEA had on Iraqi WMD development there was no opportunity for Saddam to manufacture or produce WMDs. The whole arsenal of Iraqi WMD was nothing more then a CD-ROM with plans on how to make them. A far cry from the Claims by the CUrrent Bush adminstration that Saddam had them as was goign to be using them in a Terroist attack on american soil

next time you do the research and stop trying to slant obsured facts and assmutions to support your opinion and not the truth

Originally posted by Jehosephat
..........................
next time you do the research and stop trying to slant obsured facts and assmutions to support your opinion and not the truth

Jehosephat, I believe i have been a member in these forums longer than you, because if you were as old a member as i am you would have seen that several members, including me, have found several pieces of evidence which show that Saddam was lying to the IAEA, he was actively going after wmd and had banned items such as banned missiles, banned empty chemical warheads, as well as other military technology which could only be used for wmd, not to mention tons of documents dealing with wmd, not "just one cd".

In conclusion the one who needs to do some research before "you try to slant and obscure the truth" for whatever agenda you have in mind it is you. Thanks...

Originally posted by Muaddib
Of course Saddam is not a threat anymore, he was ousted.

Bingo!!!! so what is the used to bring old tapes to the light now, what is the accomplishment of such endeviour, now if the tapes were from Iran I will think differently.

I doubt it is propaganda. The intelligence agencies are at this moment discussing what they found in those tapes as well as other evidence they have gathered and what has been learned.

Kind of late on the ball game and kind of suspicious as the time they decided to bring out.

First, I doubt you can say for certain whether or not Saddam's terrorist connections lead to the death of Americans in the U.S.

And neither do you. Right?

He did have terrorist connections and according to several international intelligence agencies he was planning on killing Americans in U.S. soil as well as abroad.

And so any other middle easter Islamic group that sees US as the evil encarnated, but should we go an invade all the nations that have them? Bomb them? bring democracy? change their Islamic dictatorial leaders?

Saddam was a softer target and one that was already planned upon, that is where the guilty feelings comes from.

Not according to international intelligence agencies which are at this moment discussing those tapes as part of their summit Marg.

Right now the tapes are nothing Saddam is out Iraq is "liberated" and no "tread to any body" unles the tapes are just another propaganda tool.

Why is it that this "topic is getting old" yet when old pictures of Abu Ghraib which the media did not release before but had them is suddenly something new?

And you know what Muaddib you are right the are also getting old, to the point that at least for me means nothing.

The deed was done the Abu Ghraib was real has been deal with and it will forever be a disgrace to the US ocupation, but is time to move on.

Don't you see the irony?

That is the beauty of it Muaddib, I see the irony and I am getting tire of been play by both sides of our political trash in the white house and in congress.

We shall create false realities to justify our kleptocracy...
Good dogs, bad iraqis...the reality is bad dogs, bad iraqis, both crap and no excuses.
__________________________________________________

And your point is showing us you lack the intelligence to fathom what defines hypocrisy or timing?
The above is called a question and it is up to you to demonstrate if it is true or not.

You didn't, instead you sought to concoct more absurdity and make up hogwash about these insults that only exist in your head. I even gave links and articles for my reasoning, that you somehow keep failing to see.

So what do you write in response to a question, but a continuation of the same bafoonery that you instigated.

Originally posted by Muaddib
I ask you to stop the insults and you respond with more rethoric and insults?....

What is the matter Regenmacher, is your intelligence so high and mighty that you don't need to present any evidence to back your argument but instead you resort to insulting those who disagree with you?

Are you once again going to anwser with more insults and belittling comments, or are you going to present "facts" to back up your argument?

Yet even more adlib nonsense out of vaporous nothingness aka thin air.

Originally posted by Muaddib
I can see exactly what you meant in your response. You regard those who disagree with you as "dogs doing their master's work" but you don't seem to comprehend that people can disagree with your views and points without being the puppets of anyone else. i guess for you someone has to agree with you on everything in order for you to regard them as "intelligent."

You saw nothing and still don't.

Thus your assumptions are wrong again. You failed to ask for clarification and instead you made up bogus balderdash to assauge your ego and feign righteousness.

Dogs applies to torturers, war zealots, war mongers, desciples of destruction and hate...those who direct, condone and relish death, hate and evil aka dogs of war.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Hey Regenmacher, leave the insults and the belittling comments out of the forums, or tell them to someone who cares about what you think....

Did you see your name on my first post? NO

I'll remind you, it's you and you alone who initially directed an insult and made it personal. I doesn't matter if you agree, but it is you who has failed to prove it's not relevant. Your "way out of line" with your control freak issues, blantantly false assumptions, your "tell it to someone who cares" crap, and then have the gall to make demands when you have NO authority to do so. You apparently under the illlusion/delusion that the whole thread is for your approval only, you don't have research more and as if no one else is reading it. Wrong answer!

Originally posted by Muaddib
You first insult my intelligence and "label me or anyone who disagrees with your view as dogs doing their master's work" and now you try to label us as parrots without a mind of our own?.....

You must be extremely naive, and lack the intelligence you are trying to mirror on others, to think your personal insults and belittling comments would not be seen as nothing more than....insults and belittling comments....

You can drop that 3rd person "us and we" wierdness, it's all on you and you speak only for one. It doesn't lend any weight, merit or creedence to your venom to include ghost persons and as it makes it appear that your are schizophrenic.

There is no us, we, or others, it's you! You have labeled yourself as a master's dog, you have insulted your own intelligence by displaying bizarre behavior, you have labeled yourself as a mindless puppet, and parroting is a verb/action not a noun or bird. You make false assumptions, you don't know what I meant by dogs, and it is you and you alone that is displaying a strange self induced guilt and inferiority complex.

You and you alone doesn't like the idea of the Saddamathon bs is not getting enough airtime, so you want to strike out at dissenters and free thinkers. You make false accusations and try to blame me, since I don't want to blindy jump on your fictional Loftus bashfest bandwagon or conform to your one-sided myopic thinking. False blame and counterfactual fabrications is what you have displayed, and yet somhow not seeing how abhorrent and dispicable your behavior is. It now has become a question if your even sane?

Originally posted by Muaddib
I remember somebody arguing that this piece of news was some sort of dismissal to the "new photos of Abu Ghraib" which btw are not new.

......are you going to present "facts" to back up your argument?

Tapes are not new either and looks like pure psyops fiction. The facts are readily apparent it's pure smoke with little public reaction, Loftus is a kook, Rummy is going ballistic, and the UN/EU isn't swayed from its agenda

UN to US: Close Down Gitmo; US to UN: Clean Up Your Own Act

Bad Publicity Puts Pentagon on Defensive

UN/EU is on a propaganda blitz in regards to US prisons and torture. Saddam tapes came out in conjuntion, there's a purpose to media propaganda as in fight fire with fire. US was throwing the dogs a bone also in an effort keep the hate alive in regards to Saddam and seeing it as a way rationalize the need or excuse for more torture, more secret prisoner overflights, more secret prisons, more disinfo and more war. You took it personally and thus that's your fault and your ego problem, not mine.

Read it again Sam:

Originally posted by Regemmacher
The reason for the timing of this release is what I am looking into because it's old verbatim and would only surface to counteract other promulgation. Everything is released for a reason as in containment level propaganda issued by psyops to muddy the water. In this case it is for obfuscation and damage control since the heat is on from Europe about torture and prisons.

John Loftus - Kook, Fraud and Liar

Saddam Tapes Fizzle, Right Chases Ghosts -Jawa Report

See my post here also, the macroview:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Not only are the 12 hours of tapes set to be released to the public by John Loftus tomorrow a fizzling non-event, but the media and many on the Right side of the blogosphere have taken those tapes out of context, twisting them to find hidden meaning where no meaning is to be found.

Without naming names, can I just say that it is totally out of context to read Saddam Hussein's warnings that 'terrorism is coming to America' as a veiled threat. Many on the Right have been so eager to find WMDs in Iraq that they are letting wishful thinking cloud their judgement. The tapes are no 'smoking-gun'.

In fact, the tapes simply seem to confirm what has been known for quite some time. They offer no insight into allegations that WMD were moved to Syria.

Further, it turns out John Loftus is more than a little bit of a nutjob. Don't believe me? Then read this from Debbie Schlussel and this from Right Wing Nut House.

Any speculation that I may have given in the past that the Loftus tapes would be the smoking-gun on the Iraq WMD issue are retracted.

Saddam Tapes or Not, I WON'T Be @ the Intelligence Summit& Here's Why
(CIA's Woolsey, Deutch Cancel, Too) -Debbie Schlussel

My first experience with Mr. Loftus, in 2002--well before FOX News hired him--showed me, glaringly, that he is a fraud. He spoke at a counter-protest to the University of Michigan Palestinian Students Divestment Conference. I was the keynote speaker at the event. At the time, Mr. Loftus had recently filed a lawsuit (which was dismissed) against Islamic Jihad terrorist/founder and South Florida Professor Sami Al-Arian, a man about whom I know, and have written, a great deal.

Mr. Loftus' speech betrayed him to be almost completely ignorant on Mr. Al Arian, Islam in general (claimed Mohammed loved the Jews and treated them well; tell that to the Jews who built Medina, whom Mohammed slaughtered, forcibly converted to Islam, or expelled), and to be a blatant liar. I watched in amazement as he claimed to the large audience assembled, that he was the attorney for INS, Customs, and FBI agents, and others who'd investigated Sami Al-Arian. I know several of those parties, and to my knowledge, none of them have ever been represented by Loftus.

Caution on Loftus and the "smoking gun" -American Thinker

...when John Loftus, the organizer of this weekend’s “Intelligence Summit” came out and said that there was a “smoking gun” in these tapes that proved the existence of WMD in Iraq prior to our invasion, I was skeptical. I remembered from the Duelfer Report that close aides to Saddam had routinely lied to the dictator about his own WMD program so any conversations about WMD on the tapes would have to be listened to bearing that in mind.

And I also had to consider the source himself. Yesterday, I said that Loftus was considered a “gadfly” by the intelligence establishment. As it turns out, I was being too kind by half.

THE SADDAM TAPES AND THEIR SOURCE -Byron York

One might guess that the Sun is not aware of Loftus' other work, but that would be incorrect. In January 2004, the paper published an article on those notorious MoveOn.org ad submissions that compared George W. Bush to Adolf Hitler. The story included a quote from Loftus, who said the ads were basically accurate. "The Bushes played a significant role in bringing money into the Third Reich," Loftus told the paper. "They literally financed Hitler. It was all about the money. It wasn't about the ideology."

SADDAM TAPES: WHY IT’S ALWAYS GOOD TO LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP -Right Wing Nuthouse

A curious gent, this Loftus fellow. It seems also that he is absolutely convinced of a connection between the Enron scandal and…(wait for it) 9/11:

In the article, Loftus reports that the now-defunct energy company had a contract with the Taliban to build a pipeline, and that Vice President Dick Cheney, determined to help out Enron, forbade U.S. intelligence sources from investigating the Enron/Taliban/al Qaeda connection in the months leading up to the September 11 terrorist attacks. After outlining this somewhat Fahrenheit 9/11-like theory, Loftus concludes, “The Enron cover-up confirms that 9/11 was not an intelligence failure or a law enforcement failure (at least not entirely). Instead, it was a foreign policy failure of the highest order. If Congress ever combines its Enron investigation with 9/11, Cheney’s whole house of cards will collapse.”

Does his kookiness rule out the possibility that there might be something valuable on the Saddam tapes? Not necessarily, although for the sake of credibility, one needs to look not only at the message, but the messenger as well.

Furor Erupts Over Recordings of Saddam -NY Sun

CAIRO, Egypt - Two former CIA directors have resigned from the board of the organization planning tomorrow to make public secret recordings of Saddam Hussein and his advisers.

In the last week both John Deutch and James Woolsey abruptly left their positions at Intelligence Summit, according to its president, John Loftus, who said their departure is part of a campaign by the directorate of national intelligence to punish him for releasing the recordings.

The reason both men gave for their resignations was new information they received regarding one of the summit's biggest donors, Michael Cherney, an Israeli citizen who has been denied a visa to enter America because of his alleged ties to the Russian mafia.

Originally posted by Muaddib
You must be extremely naive, and lack the intelligence you are trying to mirror on others, to think your personal insults and belittling comments would not be seen as nothing more than....insults and belittling comments....

...Anything else you would like to add appart from belittling comments and insults? or is that all you have to back your points?

More hypocrisy, sniping and dictatorial crap ehh? Take your own advice instigator, those lines about belittling and insults is nothing but a mask to inject more bs and your insults. I painted the truth of your actions.

The motive for release has always been the story, cause these tapes are not!

I made my points and it is you and only you that have failed to comprehend them. I have read all the Saddam tape propaganda before I interjected my first post. The general public has yawned about these non-credible Saddam tapes, Loftus is a fraudulent kook, and until they cough up some warheads the proof is still non-existant. I look at it all, you assume I didn't and I know you didn't or you wouldn't of posted that Loftus kook crap.

The reality is still bad dogs, bad iraqis, both crap and no excuses.


signed,
Rogue Element - Party of One






[edit on 19-2-2006 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Muaddib

If you do a search on the website i provided above you will find all the agencies and people attending this summit.

Do you mean the link that links Ann Coulter, FOX News, FrontPage, News Max, and the World News Daily? That link?





If that is 'non-partisan', I'd hate to see partisan!

EDIT: The images above are from a site advertising on "FrontPage", typical of the site in the 'Links' page.

[edit on 18-2-2006 by curme]

Originally posted by curme

Originally posted by Muaddib

If you do a search on the website i provided above you will find all the agencies and people attending this summit.

Do you mean the link that links Ann Coulter, FOX News, FrontPage, News Max, and the World News Daily? That link?





If that is 'non-partisan', I'd hate to see partisan!

EDIT: The images above are from a site advertising on "FrontPage", typical of the site in the 'Links' page.

[edit on 18-2-2006 by curme]

Curme, I never saw where Muaddib made any partisanship claims in his post.
I find it rather curious that rather than dispute the veracity of the information presented you resort to ad hominim attacks on the sourcing of the information instead of the content by making light of conservative blogs the site links to - should I read into that response that the information is correct? but that you disagree with the linked opinions based on preconcieved political belief?

Originally posted by Phoenix
Curme, I never saw where Muaddib made any partisanship claims in his post.
I find it rather curious that rather than dispute the veracity of the information presented you resort to ad hominim attacks on the sourcing of the information instead of the content by making light of conservative blogs the site links to - should I read into that response that the information is correct? but that you disagree with the linked opinions based on preconcieved political belief?

Muaddib never did, the site he linked did. Don't get me wrong, the info is as real as it was 11 years ago when Hussein Kamel, Saddam's son-in-law, said the same thing. I just question the timing of the release information we already knew, and then pretending that it's a "revelation". Is it it to refresh a nation's memory? To get them scared again, maybe for the Senate elections, or '08, and hope that they don't look with as much scrutiny as everyone did not before? Are the people in power hoping that everyone has such short memories? What's next? "New" Pictures of Saddam's UAV's?

The tapes that were released represent information that should have been made available to the general public both here in the U.S. and around the world. I am curious as to why they were not. The tapes themselves do not make a case pointing to specific WMD's, but they certainly paint a fairly good picture of intent concerning IRAQ. While the tapes would not have served as the basis for invading Iraq they would have enabled millions to better see why and how Bush & Blair viewed Iraq and could not but have blunted much of the cirticism that came out post invasion. I do not see any plot surrounding their release now; however, and seriously doubt their is one. Most probably it is just a case of the bureaucracy finally catching up with events.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Jehosephat, I believe i have been a member in these forums longer than you, because if you were as old a member as i am you would have seen that several members, including me, have found several pieces of evidence which show that Saddam was lying to the IAEA, he was actively going after wmd and had banned items such as banned missiles, banned empty chemical warheads, as well as other military technology which could only be used for wmd, not to mention tons of documents dealing with wmd, not "just one cd".

Wow, now we have a personal attack after I went and did the research by myself and all of a sudden there is "otehr information" I didn't find. The Dulfer report proved that Saddam, while speaking much bravado, only SAID he had them, he did NOT actaully have them. There is a big differance.

I keep saying again. There is a big differance between actaully having WMD and planningto use them. Then trying to get WMD and planning to use them. One certainly allows of the justification for a pre-emptive strike using military force, the other allows for Diplomatic means and using Non-military actions to prevent the former.

It has nothing to do with "how long I have been on the forums" please don't make a fool of yourself by dismissing the posts of another just becasue they havn't been registered as long as you have.

Originally posted by Jehosephat

Wow, now we have a personal attack after I went and did the research by myself and all of a sudden there is "otehr information" I didn't find. The Dulfer report proved that Saddam, while speaking much bravado, only SAID he had them, he did NOT actaully have them. There is a big differance.

Personal attack?.... First of all, where did i insult you in any way? The only person who i see making personal attacks is Regenmacher, and i am still baffled that he doesn't understand that his attempt to disguise his insults and trying to mirror his mental conditions on others is not fooling anyone.

Originally posted by Jehosephat
I keep saying again. There is a big differance between actaully having WMD and planningto use them. Then trying to get WMD and planning to use them. One certainly allows of the justification for a pre-emptive strike using military force, the other allows for Diplomatic means and using Non-military actions to prevent the former.

Jehosephat, Saddam broke the sanctions, and had banned material, documents dealing with wmd and banned military technology which could only be used for wmd. If that is no proof that he had a wmd program then what ws he trying to use those things for?....

He was supposed to get rid of them and had over 10 years to do so, yet he didn't. He lied about the wmd programs he had, they kept changing their documents trying to hide how much wmd, which included chemicals and missiles to deliver these wmd they had.

For over 10 years the international community tried the diplomatic means, but everytime they just found that Saddam was lying about their wmd program.

I hate having to go over this all over again because if you did a search on these forums you will find this information and much more which has been already given.

(CNN) -- The CIA has in its hands the critical parts of a key piece of Iraqi nuclear technology -- parts needed to develop a bomb program -- that were dug up in a back yard in Baghdad, CNN has learned.

The parts, with accompanying plans, were unearthed by Iraqi scientist Mahdi Obeidi who had hidden them under a rose bush in his garden 12 years ago under orders from Qusay Hussein and Saddam Hussein's then son-in-law, Hussein Kamel.

Excerpted from.
www.cnn.com...

What in the world would Saddam need these if he didn't have a wmd program?

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Iraqi officials said they have found four more empty chemical warheads similar to 12 others found last week, the U.N.'s chief weapons inspector said Sunday.

Hans Blix, in Baghdad with top nuclear weapons inspector Mohamed ElBaradei, said on CNN's "Late Edition" that the 12 empty warheads were on the agenda for talks Sunday with Iraqi officials.

"They said they had been surprised themselves" about finding the empty warheads, Blix said. "They were in boxes, never opened -- there were bird droppings on them. But of course they should have been declared and destroyed."

Excerpted from.
www.cnn.com...

I guess Saddam's regime forgot those just like they forgot they had scud missiles they had loaded for 10 years, and which were fired at the coalition at the beginning of the war.


BTW, even Saddam's 2nd official in the airforce is saying that Saddam had wmd and were moved to Syria.

Iraq's WMD Secreted in Syria, Sada Says

By IRA STOLL - Staff Reporter of the Sun
January 26, 2006

The man who served as the no. 2 official in Saddam Hussein's air force says Iraq moved weapons of mass destruction into Syria before the war by loading the weapons into civilian aircraft in which the passenger seats were removed.

Excerpted from.
www.nysun.com...

Some people will claim this was made up, but there have been several people reporting this, including a Syrian journalist.

Nizar Nayuf (Nayyouf-Nayyuf), a Syrian journalist who recently defected from Syria to Western Europe and is known for bravely challenging the Syrian regime, said in a letter Monday, January 5, to Dutch newspaper “De Telegraaf,” that he knows the three sites where Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) are kept.

Excerpted from.
www.2la.org...

For some reason when someone tries to use the "there were no stockpiles of wmd found" and they try to use this as a political tool and exagerate the reports and instead of saying the truth they claim "no evidence of wmd has been found", a few people jump in the bandwagon and claim it was all lies.

What I find ironic is that when witnesses come forward showing saying that Saddam did have a wmd program, or when evidence is found of a wmd program some people immediately claim "it's a lie perpetrated by the U.S. government".....

There were exagerations on both sides, but the truth is that there is enough evidence to tells us that Saddam not only broke the UN sanctions, but he was actively trying to get his wmd programs working again and had banned military technology and weaponry that could only be used for wmd.

Originally posted by Jehosephat
It has nothing to do with "how long I have been on the forums" please don't make a fool of yourself by dismissing the posts of another just becasue they havn't been registered as long as you have.

You are the one dismissing all the evidence that has been provided, because you did not search the forums, not me.

[edit on 19-2-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Astronomer68
The tapes that were released represent information that should have been made available to the general public both here in the U.S. and around the world. I am curious as to why they were not.
...........................

Astronomer, if the information in these tapes was not seen as something new or relevant today, why is it that intelligence agencies are at this moment discussing these same tapes?

www.intelligencesummit.org...

Originally posted by curme

Do you mean the link that links Ann Coulter, FOX News, FrontPage, News Max, and the World News Daily? That link?





If that is 'non-partisan', I'd hate to see partisan!

EDIT: The images above are from a site advertising on "FrontPage", typical of the site in the 'Links' page.

[edit on 18-2-2006 by curme]

curme, i know you prefer al jazeera and other leftist sites, but the links given by that link I gave is more than the sites you mentioned. perhaps they show those because they see some evidence in there that you can't see.

Here are all the names of the links provided there btw...which mysteriously you decided not to post.

9-11 Commission
Airline Pilots Security Alliance
America's Truth Forum
Americans Against Hate
American Center for Democracy • Center for Study of Corruption
American Enterprise Institute
American Foreign Policy Council
Americans for Safe Israel
Ann Coulter
Anti-Defamation League • International Terrorist Symbols Database
Association of Former Intelligence Officers
CAMERA (Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America)
Campus Watch
Center for Advanced Defense Studies
CENTCOM (United States Central Command)
Center for Security Policy
Center for Strategic and International Studies
Centre for Counterintelligence and Security Studies
Colonel Gordon
Committee on the Present Danger
Cooper Republic
Council on Foreign Relations
The Counterterrorism Blog
Daily Alert
DEBKAfile
Delphi Research
Direct Measures International
Dolphinarium Bombing in Tel-Aviv
Discover The Networks
EYE SPY Intelligence Magazine
FBI: Seeking Information Alert
Federation of American Scientists • Intelligence Resource Program
FOX New Channel
The Foundation for the Defense of Democracies • Blog
FrontPage Magazine
Global Justice Group
Global Security
Global Terror Alert
Google
Government Executive
Homeland Defense Journal
Homeland Security US .net
Honest Reporting
ICT (International Policy Institute for Counter-Terrorism)
ICTOA (International Counter-Terrorism Officers Association)
Institute for the Analysis of Global Security
IntelCenter
Intelligence & Terrorism Information Center
The Intelligence Summit
International Association for Counterterrorism & Security Professionals
Terror Information Bank
Internet Haganah
The Investigative Project
Iranians For Secular Republic
Iraq Coalition Casualty Count / Operation Enduring Freedom U.S. Fatalities Iraq Afghanistan

IsraCast
Jayna Davis
Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs
Jerusalem NewsWire
Jerusalem Summit
Jihad Watch
JINSA (Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs)
John Batchelor Show
John Loftus
List of Specially Designated Nationals & Blocked Persons
Little Green Footballs • 9-11 Slide Show
MEMRI (The Middle East Media Research Institute)
MEMRI TV Monitor Project
Michelle Malkin
Militant Islam Monitor
Middle East Facts
The Middle East Forum
MIPT (National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism)
MIPT Terrorism Knowledge Base
Money Laundering Alert
Navexpress (The Black Day)
National Military Intelligence Association
Never Forget. Never Again. VIDEO
NewsMax
The New York Times
Northeast Intelligence Network
One Jerusalem
Operation Shiloh
PoliceOne
Project One Soul VIDEO
Ready.gov (DHS)
Regime Change Iran
Rewards for Justice
Richard Horowitz
Richard Miniter
Rewards Fund
The Saudi Institute
Security News Online
SITE (Search for International Terrorist Entities) Institute
Society for Internet Research
Soldiers Memorial Fund
South Asian Terrorism Portal
Strategic Policy Consulting, Inc.
Students Supporting a Secure Israel
Surveillance Escort Services
Terrorism Research Center
Terrorist Warning
Topix.net
Tracking al-Qaeda
Tracking The Threat
Truth USA
Voice of America
Walid Phares
The Wall of Americans
The Washington Institute for Near East Policy
World Net Daily
Weekly Blitz
World Threats
Yahoo
Zombie Time

Excerpted from.
www.intelligencesummit.org...

BTW curme, how many leftist sites are there monitoring terrorism?

That site is neutral, but it shows many links of sites who monitor terrorism.

Muaddib I did not say the taped information wasn't relevant; it clearly is/was. My comment was directed to the fact that the information has apparently been available for quite some time and was not made public. I would have thought President Bush and Prime Minister Blair would have wanted this information made public as soon as possible--for obvious reasons. However, it was not made public even though doing so would have helped both administrations. The obvious question to ask therefore, is why not? Did they not know they had the tapes? Was there some other compelling reason to withold them?

If you look at the information found in the tapes, the date is 2003. I believe that is the date those tapes came into possesion of the coalition, but then they had to be interpreted. Do you remember a while back the news that intelligence agencies were having problems finding interpreters?

They could have had that information for a while, at least since 2003, but it seems that it took them a while to interpret it. Also remember that there were tons of documents that had to be interpreted. It wasn't as if all the intelligence agencies had to go through was just these tapes.

I could be wrong, but that's what I think.

I likewise think the same Muaddib. As I said earlier, the tapes were probably just tied up in the massive bureaucracy of the government.