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1 in 5 Americans Think Feds Tapping Their Calls

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posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 06:57 AM
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I belive that this is the result of a very well thought out campain to make people belive that the intelligence agencys have the manpower and ability to tap your phone on the mass scale these people seem to think they can. If people feel that they are being constantly watched then they will be more carefull about what they say and do, and will self police. The idea that intelligence agencys could possibly perfrom such a task is ridiculous. in the end it doesn't matter because if people belive they can it creates the same results.




posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 07:13 AM
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If anyone had taken time to look at the actual poll you would find this is nothing but media spin. Nowhere in the survey did they ask if you thought you had been or were being spied on. DOH!!!!





The actual questions asked were


Question: Do you think the Bush administration was right or wrong in wiretapping these conversations without obtaining a court order?

and

Question: Based on what you have heard or read, do you think George W. Bush definitely broke the law, probably broke the law, probably did not break the law, (or) definitely did not break the law?
CNN



As you can see it asked was he right or wrong or did he break the law, nowhere did they ask if you thought you were being spied on




[edit on 2/21/2006 by shots]



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 07:25 AM
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People do not understand how tapping works.

ALL phones and internet is tapped. They have to get a warrant to read it.



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by shots
If anyone had taken time to look at the actual poll you
would find this is nothing but media spin.


Good for you shots!! Just more left wing CNN spin.

As I said ... CNN lefties trying to pile trash on the
Bush Administration. Gotta' wonder if Soros is
keeping CNN afloat. Still trying to buy votes for
the left? Nobody watches them anymore.
Obviously with good reason as you all can
see by this 'poll'.


Yeah ... one in five Americans think they are being
spied on. That's freak'n stupid.



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 11:34 AM
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IMHO No one in the USA should be above the law. There were legal ways to do these wire taps after 9/11. The legal ways were not done. And btw, just how many American civilians helped in the 9/11 attacks
This was the reason for the wire taps.

I agree that the government should presue and arrest terrorists, but I also think they should follow the rule of law.

I don't need CNN to dislike Bush more than I allready do, personally I would rather have a Man who fought for his country when he had the oppertunity to, to lead this War on Terror...or any war.



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 10:41 PM
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Yes, I think my communications are monitored. Why? Because all communications are monitored. They have the capacity with ECHELON and its counterparts to automatically sift through the billions of daily intercepts and search for keywords. This has been going on for a long time.

And for those who say they don't have the capacity to monitor so many, the NSA has over 38,000 employees. Even if a majority of those employees are for technical aspects of cryptography and whatnot, that's still plenty of people for human filtering after the ECHELON system filters out the first level of flagged intercepts.

I don't think it's a particularly recent thing, just that it's now getting public and congressional approval to take place since it was made public. And I'm continually amazed at how many people support it.

The bottom line is that they are not simply spying on calls to suspected terrorists in other countries. If they were, they would go through FISA. There is NO reason FISA would not work for this.



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by LoganCale
Yes, I think my communications are monitored. Why? Because all communications are monitored. They have the capacity with ECHELON and its counterparts to automatically sift through the billions of daily intercepts and search for keywords. This has been going on for a long time.

And for those who say they don't have the capacity to monitor so many, the NSA has over 38,000 employees. Even if a majority of those employees are for technical aspects of cryptography and whatnot, that's still plenty of people for human filtering after the ECHELON system filters out the first level of flagged intercepts.

I don't think it's a particularly recent thing, just that it's now getting public and congressional approval to take place since it was made public. And I'm continually amazed at how many people support it.

The bottom line is that they are not simply spying on calls to suspected terrorists in other countries. If they were, they would go through FISA. There is NO reason FISA would not work for this.

Actually, they don't have enough analysts and language speciallists at-hand. That's one of the reasons why theywere uanble to pick up on key phone intercepts and credit card transactions made by the 9/11 planners and operatives prior to the 9/11 attacks, that could've enabled the security services to either break up the planned attacks or at least have arrested a number of the 9/11 operatives in the summer of '01 or earlier.



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 11:22 PM
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Personally I believe 9/11 was allowed to happen, which may cause me to be biased a certain way, so take this how you will...

As the number of employees and funding of such agencies is generally classified, as far as I know, I don't know what changes have taken place since 9/11... however, I suspect they have increased the number of employees. Also, though I do not know exactly how ECHELON works, I suspect it is something like this: All the intercepted communications are run through a filter that flags intercepts containing keywords or keyphrases on a list. Those are then passed on to human analysts who determine if the messages are not appropriate matches - such as a person who said a movie bombed. Or, for example, this message I am posting right now due to my previous and upcoming use of the word "bomb". Or, who knows, maybe they've improved their filter by now to weed out some of this kind of usage as well.

And with the average email, it would only take a maximum of 20 seconds to determine whether it was an incorrect flagging. That would allow them to get through the vast majority fairly quickly when that is their main priority.

Additionally, former NSA Analyst Russ Tice has said they have the capability to monitor all domestic telephone calls.



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by LoganCale
Personally I believe 9/11 was allowed to happen, which may cause me to be biased a certain way, so take this how you will...

As the number of employees and funding of such agencies is generally classified, as far as I know, I don't know what changes have taken place since 9/11... however, I suspect they have increased the number of employees. Also, though I do not know exactly how ECHELON works, I suspect it is something like this: All the intercepted communications are run through a filter that flags intercepts containing keywords or keyphrases on a list. Those are then passed on to human analysts who determine if the messages are not appropriate matches - such as a person who said a movie bombed. Or, for example, this message I am posting right now due to my previous and upcoming use of the word "bomb". Or, who knows, maybe they've improved their filter by now to weed out some of this kind of usage as well.

And with the average email, it would only take a maximum of 20 seconds to determine whether it was an incorrect flagging. That would allow them to get through the vast majority fairly quickly when that is their main priority.

Additionally, former NSA Analyst Russ Tice has said they have the capability to monitor all domestic telephone calls.

Oh, you're one of those 9/11 conspiracy nutjobs.



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 11:36 PM
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Yes I am, but that is not the subject of this discussion. I pointed that out so people would understand where I was coming from if it caused me to have a bias. I feel it did not, but others may feel differently. So I would prefer if responses were to the real subject here, which is wrongful and illegal surveillance.



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by LoganCale
Yes I am, but that is not the subject of this discussion. I pointed that out so people would understand where I was coming from if it caused me to have a bias. I feel it did not, but others may feel differently. So I would prefer if responses were to the real subject here, which is wrongful and illegal surveillance.

You seem like a pretty knowledgable person on the intercept and analysis capabilities of the NSA yet at the same time you're of the opinion that the 9/11 attacks were either orchestrated by the government of were allowed to take place by the government.

Have you read any of James Bamford's books on the history of the NSA and the 9/11 attacks?



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Lanton
You seem like a pretty knowledgable person on the intercept and analysis capabilities of the NSA...


To be fair, I don't know much about it beyond what I've read on Wikipedia. The majority of what I said is my assumption on what takes place based on the various facts I have read.


Have you read any of James Bamford's books on the history of the NSA and the 9/11 attacks?


I can't say that I have, but I'll look into them.



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 02:35 PM
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Come now folks. I know I am not the only one on here that does have stuff to hide on the phone, and I AM NOT A TERRORIST. I am a freedom loving American and I dont want anyone, gov't or not, listening to my conversations unless I say its ok. This is a basic freedom. It isnt about whether you have something to hide or not.

I remember a book I read as a child...If you give a mouse a cookie...he wants a glass of milk...



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 02:58 PM
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Don't think you're being monitored?....

Well then , go ahead and list a whole series of words which might be construed as anarchist or militant in nature in an e-mail or posting here. You will get a visit. Go ahead all you "they would never do this to us" crowd. Go ahead



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 03:26 PM
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There is no proof that there was domestic wire tapping. All the tapping was to known or suspected terrorists/supporters out side the United States.

There was no illegal tapping of the ACLU or PETA or so forth.

Grow up people, use your brain!


I though that, on this site, when one made accusations they had to provide sources (if we're lucky they'd be credible) to their 'supposed inside information'.

[edit on 23-2-2006 by ferretman2]



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by ferretman2
There is no proof that there was domestic wire tapping. All the tapping was to known or suspected terrorists/supporters out side the United States.


Incorrect. It is a proven fact that the United States has and uses ECHELON. There is no proof that there was not domestic wiretapping.


There was no illegal tapping of the ACLU or PETA or so forth.


There was illegal surveillance on various protest groups. The Quaker group in Florida, for example:


A year ago, at a Quaker Meeting House in Lake Worth, Fla., a small group of activists met to plan a protest of military recruiting at local high schools. What they didn't know was that their meeting had come to the attention of the U.S. military.

A secret 400-page Defense Department document obtained by NBC News lists the Lake Worth meeting as a “threat” and one of more than 1,500 “suspicious incidents” across the country over a recent 10-month period.

www.msnbc.msn.com...


And this, from the same source:


The DOD database obtained by NBC News includes nearly four dozen anti-war meetings or protests, including some that have taken place far from any military installation, post or recruitment center. One “incident” included in the database is a large anti-war protest at Hollywood and Vine in Los Angeles last March that included effigies of President Bush and anti-war protest banners.

www.msnbc.msn.com...


Now, those two incidents involved physical espionage authorized by the DoD, not just NSA signals intercepts. There are quite a few cases where protest groups were being monitored and photographed by government agents. And they all fall under the same category of absolutely inappropriate.

The fact that those groups were being monitored shows to me that it's likely similar groups are being targeted through the NSA surveillance as well.

I'll be the first to admit that the ACLU can be excessive and even stupid in some areas. This is not one of them. It is a human right to maintain whatever level of privacy they choose and not be monitored by anyone. The new practice of forcing people to prove their innocence goes against the very foundation of this country and must be ended now.

Of course calls to suspected terrorists should be monitored. But if one side of that call is in America, a warrant must always be gotten. I have yet to see an explanation why the government would ever need longer than 72 hours to report an intercept after the fact. The only conclusion I could come to is that their domestic surveillance program is ECHELON. It would be impossible, both logistically and legally, to get approval of millions of daily intercepts.



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 04:53 PM
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1 in 5 US citizens

that's over 60 MILLION people...

i highly doubt that the united states government has the resources and manpower to pull that off.



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
that's over 60 MILLION people...

i highly doubt that the united states government has the resources and manpower to pull that off.


Then I suggest you read the Wikipedia article on ECHELON.


ECHELON is a highly secretive world-wide signals intelligence and analysis network run by the UKUSA Community. ECHELON can capture radio and satellite communications, telephone calls, faxes and e-mails nearly anywhere in the world and includes computer automated analysis and sorting of intercepts. ECHELON is estimated to intercept up to 3 billion communications every day.

en.wikipedia.org...


And ECHELON has been around for quite a while. I'm sure they've increased its capabilities over the years since it began, or may even have completely new systems.



posted on May, 11 2006 @ 09:47 AM
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Well, it looks like those 4 out of 5 that don't beleive they are being tapped are in the wrong
www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is about a programme that collects logs of calls, who is calling who, but, I should note, doesn't record the conversations themselves. Its data mining programme, presumably if a person is 'networked' in a 'suspicsious' way, THEN they start recording their calls.



posted on May, 11 2006 @ 10:59 AM
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Nygdan
Well, it looks like those 4 out of 5 that don't beleive they are being tapped are in the wrong


Umm… me thinks not. I’m betting when that poll was done the people responding considered “tapping” to mean that the Feds are listening to their calls. And that’s not what they did. In this recent program they did not listen to the calls nor did they collect names, addresses or any other identifying sources.



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