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How do you know this ?There is no proof of this ? Just because there were fewer acts of terrorism doesnt mean that these insurgents were not there !
How can the CIA recruit them to do field work ?? Some of the more wahabbi elements might support popular arab causes but that is not to say that they are under the CIA. Do you think that these people have no self identity ?
I have also posted many links from Bin Laden interviews and official documents that show that Bin Laden had never been contacted by the CIA.
Apparently, commondreams dot com is what you consider as a credible source. It is nothing more than the name suggests, a Common "dream" not fact.
US support in Afganistan was to only the indegenious resistence and not to the foreign elements that sort to make it an Islamic cause. Why cant you understand this simple logic ?
Originally posted by Jakomo
There were no terrorist attacks wiping out hundreds of people a week under Saddam. As bad as it was there was security. People didn't have to worry about getting blown to pieces at the market.
Can you imagine for a second having to worry every day about everyone in your family and all your friends? To worry that they may get killed today by a suicide bomber at the corner store?
There is a total breakdown of security in Iraq, and has been since the start (evidenced by the looting right away). If you can sit here and say that all this is the fault of Iraqis, I have one thing to say: The United States of America brought about this civil disorder by pretty much unilaterally invading with minimum international support. Therefore the aftermath is their responsibility.
In this case, you did much to make them poor and destitute, and to make them feel oppressed (they were used to a different kind of in-your-face oppression) and those are the ranks from which the fanatics get their footsoldiers, in my opinion.
I was under the impression that most times people don't particularly know all the details when they are working for the CIA.
Hmmm, it was only the one. Please repost three. Bearing in mind my above statement.
Again, it is full of links from reputable news agencies. It LINKS articles from other sources it doesn't write them.
Human rights are under threat. The ban on torture and other cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment – the most universally accepted of human rights – is being undermined. In the “war on terror”, governments are not only using torture and ill-treatment, they are making the case that this is justifiable and necessary.
Those who claim to set their human rights standards high are at the forefront of this assault. The USA is one such government. Their conduct influences governments everywhere, giving comfort to those who commit torture routinely and undermining the very values the “war on terror” is supposed to defend.
They speak of “coercive interrogation” but when the door to torture is opened, the pressure is always upward. If one slap doesn’t work, then a beating will follow. If a beating doesn’t work, what comes next? We see the photographs, hear the testimonies. It is cruel, inhuman; it degrades us all.
Join our campaign to stop torture and ill-treatment in the “war on terror”.
Originally posted by Jgruh4e
Amnesty International does not support or oppose any government or political system, nor does it support or oppose the views of the victims whose rights it seeks to protect. It is concerned solely with the impartial protection of human rights.
Originally posted by IAF101
Thats a nice one!
Despite Amnesty International's claims of being free from prejudice its actions over the past few years have clearly shown it as otherwise. Apparently, communist nations like North Korea, China and Cuba make only a passing mention in its bulletine while the welfare of terrorists is paramount to them. Their sickening hipocracy has destroyed Amnesty International's credibility in the world.
To the initiated this is not news.
U.S. Cites Exception in Torture Ban
Bush administration lawyers, fighting a claim of torture by a Guantanamo Bay detainee, yesterday argued that the new law that bans cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of detainees in U.S. custody does not apply to people held at the military prison.
In federal court yesterday and in legal filings, Justice Department lawyers contended that a detainee at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, cannot use legislation drafted by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) to challenge treatment that the detainee's lawyers described as "systematic torture."
Government lawyers have argued that another portion of that same law, the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005, removes general access to U.S. courts for all Guantanamo Bay captives. Therefore, they said, Mohammed Bawazir, a Yemeni national held since May 2002, cannot claim protection under the anti-torture provisions.
Originally posted by ludaChris
Thats rather vague logic to be using, just because they didnt say they arent torturing it means they are? I'm confused by that. Basically they are you are saying the US is guilty of torture until proven innocent. The burden of proof is on you to show they are torturing, not for the US to proove they arent. Thats how it works you see. Those making the allegations must proove them true, and so far you havent done that for me. I honestly dont think you can proove it. I also belive that they arent torturing them. I guess sensory and sleep deprivation, and making them stand in uncomfortable positions for long periods of time qualifies as torture for you. Kinda funny, considering our military personnel go through the same thing in their basic training. Probably worse for our special forces, kept wet and cold for long periods of time with no or little sleep. I know the military is voluteer, but most of these guys are captured on the battlefield in the act of fighting, some are snatched up in intelligence operations. I could understand your quarrell with the ones snatched up in sting type operations because intel isnt always right, but when they are caught fighting on the battlefield its fair game to take them to gitmo for imprisonment and interrogation.
Originally posted by kenshiro2012
In Souljah's world,
If the US does not deny it is doing wrong..... Means that the US is actually doing the evil just not wanting to admit to it
If the US denies that they are doing anything wrong.... Means that the US is Lying.
If the US admitted that they were doing something wrong...... It must mean that they are hiding something(s) that are even worse and are only admitting to the lesser evils to cover up the darker events.
Have you not figured it out yet? That is Souljah's one and only perspective on anything that is even remotely connected with the US, the American citizen, the American military. Anything that has even a remote connection to the US.
That is all Acceptable for you. You can take it however you want it mister kenshiro2012 - it will not make it go away.
Apparently you do not have a problem with the image of US goverment in the name of the people of America - torturing people. Apparently you do not have a problem with US goverment spying on their own citizens.
Originally posted by Souljah
There is no Burden on me - sorry to Dissapoint you.
There have been NUMEROUS Proofs, that US are infact Torturing their Prisoners of War, which are not protected by any of the Conventions regarding Prisoners of War and regarding Torture.
We have all seen pictures from Abu-Gharib - and I bet that the Scenery is not very different in Gutananamo.
We have the UN Reports, citing, that Torture and Abuse is going on, and that they Demand Closure of this Detention Fascility.
And NOW - we have the Goverment of United States saying, that the ANTI-TORTURE LEGISLATIONS DO NOT APPLY TO THE PRISONERS IN GUANTANAMO. Now what does that tell you?
When using Human Logic, that would mean, that US Goverment is trying to protect Something that really is Going on in there.
Firstly - why didn't the US goverment allow the UN Inspectors to Interview the Detainiees?
Secondly - what we have seen today - the US Govermetn is saying that the Detainiees simply are not Protected anymore by the Anti-Torture Legislation passed by US Senators, NOR by INTERNATIONAL Conventions and Laws regarding the Treatment of Prisoners of War and regarding Torture.
Simply meaning - they DO toture.
BUT - IT IS LEGAL!!!
Since the Prisoners of Gutananamo do not have any Rights nor are protected by any of the Laws, Legislations and Conventions mentioned above.
Well - how do you Understand that?
Originally posted by kenshiro2012
you are out to prove my point?
There is never anything that the US is doing that is positive in anyway shape or form?
I am sorry to disillusion you dear sir but your stance is not held by everyone and be every news organization. Remember, you are the one that continualy denounces anything that shows the US in a postive light as just propaganda or "purchased" news stories.
Originally posted by Souljah
You certainly do now know, that they fight for Human Rights in China, Korea, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Isreal, Turkey or United States - WHEREVER those Basic Human Rights are Broke and Raped. But for YOU, that is ofcourse "Not News".
You are doing Exactly the same thing with United Nations. You deny and Deny and DENY - yet they are quite suitable, when the Inspectors from UN are not allowed to access Nuclear compounds of Iran for example.
I bet your Seniors at the PNAC do now allow you to even think about UN being Right and You being Wrong.
Rumsfeld denies claims of torture at Guantanamo
Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, has dismissed claims of torture by Guantanamo Bay terrorist suspects, describing them as a calculated attempt to manipulate the western media.
Mr Rumsfeld suggested that the media were playing al-Qa'eda's game. Referring to an al-Qa'eda training manual uncovered by Greater Manchester police, Mr Rumsfeld said: "Of course we know what those prisoners were taught [with] the Manchester document. They're taught to lie, they're taught to allege that they have been tortured, and that's part of the training that they received."
Gitmo Detainee: False 9/11 Confession Was Tortured Out of Me
Mohammed Al-Qahtani, a Saudi, is the best known detainee held at the US prison for "war on terror" suspects at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.
But lawyers who are fighting his detention in US courts say US military interrogators used "brutal" tactics to get statements from the Saudi.
"The government has recklessly accused Mohammed of many different crimes with no real evidence, just dubious interrogation statements," said Gitanjali Gutierrez, a lawyer for the Centre for Constitutional Rights (CCR), a New York based group that has provided lawyers for many Guantanamo detainees.
Vatican Denounces US Treatment of Gitmo Detainees
The Vatican issued a sharp rebuke on Friday to the United States over its continued operation of the Guantanamo Bay prison, accusing it of failing to respect human dignity in its treatment of prisoners there.
"It seems clear that in this prison man’s dignity is not being respected at all," said Cardinal Renato Martino, the Vatican’s "minister" for justice and peace.
The Vatican has not previously commented directly on the controversial prison camp, which the United Nations has demanded that Washington shut down.
"Isn’t the lack of rights stamping on the dignity of man. Everyone always has the right to an equable and just judgement," said Martino, speaking in an interview with Italy’s ANSA news agency on his return from a visit to Cuba.
Originally posted by Souljah
In case if you did not know - the Reports of Torture are Nothing but an Al-Qaeda Trick to stain the Perfect record of the Bush administration.
Well - even VATICAN City denounces the treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo.