UN Report: US Is Abusing Captives

Haha! My mistake.

They don't produce any goods or services themselves

should read

They produce 700$ Billion dollars LESS than they consume in a year.

So sorry

And back to the topic: You torture people, it's been proven, it's been photographed, and you're guilty.

You incarcerate people without trials for indefinite periods of time.

Whether the UN chides you for it is irrelevant. You do it. And it's a war crime.


jako

Originally posted by devilwasp
You mean like the slovanian police arresting people, beating, threatening then ignoring thier complaints?

Or mabye the slovanian government denying people the right to be a citizen, AFTER they had been living in the country legally.

Dear devilwasp,

Your Futile Attempt to Compare and Equal the Police Brutality in a small country like Slovenia, with the Foreign Politics of the current US Administration, which has broken just about every International Law and Convention with their alleged War on Terror is simply Amusing! Tell me, is there a Goverment in this World without any Corruption?

Sadly you do not know the Difference, because it does not matter to you. Same question I posted to another member with the same tactics as yours - what would you do, if I was from Italy? Or United Kingdom? Would you dig dirt on Italian and British Goverments and try to make them looks "as bad as the United States"? Well, that would certainly make the American Allies in the War on Terror look pretty Funny!

Still you try so Hard to do your Best to make the Country I live in make looks like the Ultimate International Crime Syndicate - but you do not have a problem with any of the NUMEROUS listed and named topics concering the current US and UK administrations, up to their Heads in Gutter, filled with their Own Corruptions, Scandals and ofcourse Wars.

I belive that your LOX-Games-Buddies are calling you.

LOX Clan Calling devilwasp! Come in Please!

[edit on 16/2/06 by Souljah]

Originally posted by Souljah
Dear devilwasp,

Your Futile Attempt to Compare and Equal the Police Brutality in a small country like Slovenia, with the Foreign Politics of the current US Administration, which has broken just about every International Law and Convention with their alleged War on Terror is simply Amusing! Tell me, is there a Goverment in this World without any Corruption?

Sadly you do not know the Difference, because it does not matter to you. Same question I posted to another member with the same tactics as yours - what would you do, if I was from Italy? Or United Kingdom? Would you dig dirt on Italian and British Goverments and try to make them looks "as bad as the United States"? Well, that would certainly make the American Allies in the War on Terror look pretty Funny!

No I wouldnt, I am actually asking you, it seems a bit hypocritical of you to be critising another country while your own has the same problem if not worse.
Oh and BTW, you still havnt commented on your countries ability to take away a persons citzenship illegally.

Still you try so Hard to do your Best to make the Country I live in make looks like the Ultimate International Crime Syndicate - but you do not have a problem with any of the NUMEROUS listed and named topics concering the current US and UK administrations, up to their Heads in Gutter, filled with their Own Corruptions, Scandals and ofcourse Wars.
[edit on 16/2/06 by Souljah]

Pot calling kettle?
You dismiss your own countries problems yet list others problems?
Are you afraid of the truth?


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

ENOUGH. DW that's not the topic.

Souljah, any more baiting and this thread and any consequent ones on this subject will be closed/trashed.

Originally posted by Jakomo
You incarcerate people without trials for indefinite periods of time.
And it's a war crime.

No it's not.
en.wikipedia.org...

They aren't being held for an 'indefinate' period of time.
The time is 'definite'. They are held until they are determined
not to be a threat. OR until the hostilities cease. Just like
in all other wars.

Originally posted by Souljah
Some have been processed through and let go, only to
end up being caught on the battlefield once again ..

Yes? You have Proof for your Claims?

It's been in the news over and over ....
www.papillonsartpalace.com...
Here. This is just one of MANY reports on this fact.
I'm sure you are capable of googling up these facts
if you wish to read more. And of course you'll
want to, right? You want the TRUTH, right??

FlyersFan:

No it's not.
en.wikipedia.org...

They aren't being held for an 'indefinate' period of time.
The time is 'definite'. They are held until they are determined
not to be a threat. OR until the hostilities cease. Just like
in all other wars.

LOLOLOLOL! Sorry man, I can hardly see through the tears of laughter.

You ACTUALLY used WIKIPEDIA's definition of the Laws of War? HAHA!

Here's their frontpage disclaimer, btw:

en.wikipedia.org...:General_disclaimer

Pay attention to the font 20 BOLD statement at the top that says:

WIKIPEDIA MAKES NO GUARANTEE OF VALIDITY

Try using an ACTUAL information site. Just look up Geneva Conventions in google.

Oh wait, that doesn't exactly serve your purposes.

And President Bush said this is an OPEN-ENDED war. No end in sight. So if they are being kept until the hostilities cease, they see no end to the hositilities. That's indefinite incarceration.

Your next link is just as hilarious. You can access that link from the original link. Which looks like it was designed by an insane colorblind person.

www.papillonsartpalace.com...

Why don't you get an ACTUAL news source. Try any one of the official newswires. Associated Press, Reuters, etc.

I'll be here.

No I wouldnt, I am actually asking you, it seems a bit hypocritical of you to be critising another country while your own has the same problem if not worse.
Oh and BTW, you still havnt commented on your countries ability to take away a persons citzenship illegally

So, his countries activity in illegality somehow negates those illigalities of your own? This sounds illogical.

Souja is an individual debating the subsequent abuse, indictment, and detainment of otherwise innocent prisoners, not a government official.

Luxifero

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Souljah
Some have been processed through and let go, only to
end up being caught on the battlefield once again ..

Yes? You have Proof for your Claims?

It's been in the news over and over ....
www.papillonsartpalace.com...
Here. This is just one of MANY reports on this fact.
I'm sure you are capable of googling up these facts
if you wish to read more. And of course you'll
want to, right? You want the TRUTH, right??

Ever occured to anyone that maybe they went back to the battlefields coz all the torturing and abuses in prison made them really pissed off? You know, pissed enough to wanna kill?

[edit - whacked out quotes....sigh]

[edit on 16-2-2006 by Beachcoma]

Originally posted by Beachcoma
You know, pissed enough to wanna kill?

No. Not me. They wanted to kill to begin with. Their
stay at Club Med wasn't able to get them to stop.
They are hopeless lost causes who are a plague upon
the world. Remove them and peace has a chance.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Sorry man ...

I'm a girl.

You ACTUALLY used WIKIPEDIA's ....

Because they have links to the actual, and full, Geneva
Convention etc etc etc. Did you bother to even look?
No. Probably all those 'tears in your eyes' ...
Now, grow up and stop crying ... I'll hold your hand
for you. Go back to the link ... read again ... see the
links for Geneva Convention, etc?? READ.

Gawd .. how much do babysitters get paid these
days anyways? I should put in for some overtime pay.

A quote or two from Flyers Fan...

"They aren't being held for an 'indefinate' period of time.
The time is 'definite'. They are held until they are determined
not to be a threat. OR until the hostilities cease. Just like
in all other wars. "

Actually, a 'definite' period of time would be six months. The above definitions do not fit the word 'definite'. They are arbitrary. (That means that the people who hold them can hold them as long as they like. It's not a good thing if you're trying to look like you're standing up for justice.) And, pray tell, with which state is the US at war? Who will sue for peace? Wars on abstract nouns, like 'terror' or 'drugs' are NOT "like all other wars."

"They wanted to kill to begin with. Their
stay at Club Med wasn't able to get them to stop.
They are hopeless lost causes who are a plague upon
the world. Remove them and peace has a chance."

Well, yes, I suppose if you kill everyone who disagrees with you, that could provide you with some measure of peace. But just a reminder:

People are usually, in free societies, to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. (Which means that you're not allowed to say "They wanted to kill to begin with" unless you can prove it, in a court of law.) The charges against these people have not been made known to them, so they can mount no defence, nor confront their accusers in court.

Guantanamo is an abomination, as are the secret detention centres across Europe. Defending it and them simply makes you the 21st-century equivalent of the 'Good German' who didn't speak out against the rulers of the Homeland ("Heimat") and refused to believe that Hitler was a nasty piece of work ("The people of the Sudetenland WANTED to be free!") Please, please wake up to what your government is doing in your name and with your money.


[edit on 17-2-2006 by rich23]

The solution to this Problem, is very simple, I will make sure to write my representatives to deal
with this terrible issue at once, Abuse of prisoners is inexcusable to the highest degree, It not only
makes this great country (The greatest country the world has ever seen) look bad, but it
makes us as human beings look bad...

Plucking these poor innocent men off the battlefield, Then flying them thousands of miles away to a nice tropical
island, With warn blankets, hot meals and giving them the luxury of hygiene, And then having the nerve to put
them through the hell of a college party, is the lowest of lows and immoral..


The sollution to this problem is as said, very simple, Rather then taking them thousands of miles away and
putting them through hell, We can make things easier for them and us, Shoot them on sight and send them to hell much faster.


72 virgins right? Hell cant be that bad..

[edit on 17-2-2006 by C0le]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Beachcoma
You know, pissed enough to wanna kill?

No. Not me. They wanted to kill to begin with. Their
stay at Club Med wasn't able to get them to stop.
They are hopeless lost causes who are a plague upon
the world. Remove them and peace has a chance.

Didn't say it was you. But try to imagine it. Let's make some simple assumptions here. Let's say that out of X amount of detainees that you have assumed are guilty of "wanting to kill to begin with," Y percentage of them are actually not guilty, or just guilty by association (maybe he was a brother, cousin or old schoolmate of the guilty ones).

So let's say that this Y percentage of not guilty people get thrown into these detainment facilities. I don't know what actually goes on inside these facilities, but if they're anything like prison, I'd have to assume that it's pretty nasty in there.

Now don't you think that even the most innocent and benign of them would feel a great injustice has been done to them? You've already assumed that they are guilty, furthermore there was no trial to ascertain if they're guilty or not. Their wrongful stay in these prisons would have given them plenty of time to brood over it and feel a greater resentment towards the US for doing them such a great injustice.

It's no surprise then that they would join up one of the many organizations out there that exists purely to do battle with the US and it's allies when they got out. I mean, you've already assumed that they are guilty anyway, and they've already served time for what they have not commit. Might as well just go fight, makes no difference either way if they were guilty or not, you've made up your mind that they're guilty

In fact I wouldn't be surprised that after their stay at "Club Med" they would have the same sentiments as you, but towards the people of the US: They are hopeless lost causes who are a plague upon the world.

Sentiments that came out in the open thanks to their forced stay at "Club Med." Sentiments that wouldn't have crossed their mind if they were tried in a court, innocent until proven guilty.

Just consider it.

[edit on 17-2-2006 by Beachcoma]

Why do you people care so much about the guilty or innocence of people who wish you death regardless?

Why dont you put this much effort into helping out the innocent westerners who are thrown into western jails all the time?

That doesnt add to the (help the foreigners five thousand miles away) points does it?



[edit on 17-2-2006 by C0le]

Originally posted by C0le
Why do you people care so much about the guilty or innocence of people who wish you death regardless?

Why dont you put this much effort into helping out the innocent westerners who are thrown into western jails all the time?

That doesnt add to the (help the foreigners five thousand miles away) points does it?

I'm simply pointing out that by throwing in innocent people, Arabs or Westerners into prison, be it foreign or your own western variety, you help create more people who wish for your death. Or at least people who despise the injustice done to them. These people who initially did not care one way or the other whether the US prospers or rots would now want the US to burn.

Is that so difficult to imagine? Must you deflect the issue to make it like myself and others are supporting those who actually are guilty?

I look at it this way, If they hate us, it makes things easier, take that as you will..

Oh and you said it not me..

Originally posted by C0le
I look at it this way, If they hate us, it makes things easier, take that as you will..

If they hate you, then that is their choice. If they act upon it or if there is evidence that they will act upon it then I'd say you've got justification to prevent them from continuing.

I don't see how it makes things any easier, you'd still have to sort out the ones that are actually threatening to you and the ones who just hate your foreign policies. If you lump them all together and toss all who oppose you into prison, then they will definitely hate you.

Instead of having a segment of the population hating you, you would now have the whole broad spectrum that initially didn't care one way or the other what you do hating you.

That's how I see it. Take that as you will.

Oh, by the way, what do you mean by "I said it?" I'm not sure I get you there.

You wont like my opinion on this matter, but oh well. The detainees at Gitmo are technically not entitled to the Geneva Convention. They hide among civilians, wear civilian clothes, bomb civilian sites ect. They are getting treated much better than they deserve. Call me what you want but thats how I feel about it.

News BBC

The UN Secretary General, Kofi Annan, has said the United States must shut down Guantanamo Bay prison camp "as soon as is possible".

Mr Annan backed a UN report calling for the closure of the camp where some 500 "enemy combatants" have been held without trial for up to four years.

He said he did not agree with all findings, but said detainees could not be held "in perpetuity" without charge.

The UN says the US should try the approximately 500 inmates, or free them "without further delay".

Mr Annan said bringing the detainees to trial would allow them to explain themselves.

Only a handful of detainees have been tried so far.

Can somebody from the "Other Team" please Explain to me, why are these People not on Trial and Charged for the Crimes, that they supposed to have Commited? Why are they being held for 2+ years, without anything showing that they are guilty, apart from their Orange clothing? Why have only a Handful of Detainees been trialed so far out of 500+ being held in prison?

I am sorry, but there are too many WHY's.

And what does the White House say?

The White House has dismissed the report as "a discredit to the UN".

What else could we expect.

Interesting that the White House do not see, that Guntanamo is a Discredit to the Freedom, Liberty and Justice for all, that they are supposed to Represent and Defend.


More News:
U.N. Calls Guantanamo a U.S. Torture Camp
Close Guantanamo camp, Cabinet minister Pete Hain says
Archbishop Desmond Tutu calls for Guantanamo closure

I suggest that the US Goverment starts to read the following:
Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War