China FC-1 04 will fly

DATE:07/11/06
SOURCE:Flight International
By Vladimir Karnozov

Russia's Klimov is looking at the possibility of joining forces with Chinese industry for the joint development of next-generation engines for fighter aircraft, helicopters and unmanned air vehicles, says general director/general designer Aleksandr Vatagin. "We are ready to work together with China on advanced projects of mutual interest, and are already working on some of them."

Speaking at last week's Airshow China in Zhuhai, Vatagin said additional areas of co-operation could include the development of new turboprop and turboshaft engines, gearboxes and auxiliary power units, plus enhanced versions of the RD-93 turbofan now in production for Chengdu's FC-1 light fighter also referred to as the JF-17 and Super-7.

Pakistan's first batch of single-engined FC-1s will be delivered next year with Russian-made RD-93s, and Vatagin says Klimov is now promoting uprated and vectored thrust versions of the powerplant for "improved Super-7 series" aircraft.

Talks are under way with the Chinese National Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC), which leads the FC-1 project, over the possible use of vectored thrust technology on future versions of the RD-93, says Vatagin. "We believe the JF-17 project will develop further with Klimov participation," says CATIC development director Li Pei.

CATIC says there are currently no talks with Klimov over licence production of the RD-93 in China, but Beijing is seeking ways of conducting in-country maintenance on the design. The Russian company says it is ready to hand over maintenance documentation for the powerplant.

In 1997, Klimov supplied its first RD-93 engines for FC-1 development prototypes, the first of which made its flight debut in August 2003. Four aircraft and one static test airframe are now being used for certification purposes. Pakistan joined the programme in the late 1990s and took part in the development of the export-standard FC-1.

CATIC will not disclose its orderbook for the FC-1, but says Pakistan is not the only third country being offered examples powered by Russian-made engines.

Summery
- Possible uprated RD-93
- Upgraded RD-93 for pakistan - Possibly
- Pakistan is not the only one being offered the FC-1 with russian engines
- Future engine develop possible

Nothing yet but now the Klimov company is actually acknowledging the engine will go to pakistan

Originally posted by chinawhite
LCA tejas

Specifications
POWERPLANT - GE F404 turbofan, 48.9 kN dry or 78.7 kN with afterburner
Hardpoints - 7
Maximum Speed Mach 1.7
Service Ceiling 50,000 feet.
Maximum External Stores Load 4000kg (8818 lbs.)
Combat radius - ??
Main armament - R-77

Has three 5"x5" color MFD

Some of these data are absolutely wrong. The LCA do has 8 hardpoints, the F404 upgrade vertion will be more powerful than RD-93 that transfer from Russia.
Meanwhile, you guys should notice the T/W rate and Wing Load which are two most important data for measuring the capability of A2A fighting of LCA are all better than FC-1.

Russian plant to modernise engine for Chinese fighter planes

13.11.2006, 22.29 ST. PETERSBURG, November 13 (Itar-Tass) -- Russia's St. Petersbur
aircraft engine plant will modernise the RD-93 turbojet engine for
the light Chinese FC-1 fighter plane Super-7.

This will increase the plane's thrust by almost 10 percent. A thrust
vectoring nozzle will add manoeuvrability to the plane.

A relevant contract is expected to be signed in November or December
2006, plant director general Alexander Vatagin told a press
conference on Monday.

The plant is currently fulfilling orders under a contract signed in
2005 by Russia's arms exporter Rosoboronexport and China for the
supply of 100 RD-93 engines for the FC-1 Super 7 fighter planes, as
well space parts for them for total sum of 267 million U.S. dollars.

ITAR TASS

10% More thrust and TVC which i presume would be like the MiG-29OVT

The thrust will now be 89.54kN

Originally posted by chinawhite
....
Nothing yet but now the Klimov company is actually acknowledging the engine will go to pakistan

Russia has blocked the sale of Chinese fighter planes with Russian engines to Pakistan.

"We've denied China the right to supply its JF-17 fighter aircraft powered by Russian RD-93 engines to third countries, asking it to sign an end-user certificate for the engines," said Colonel-General Anatoly Mazurkevich, head of the Defence Ministry's International Cooperation Department.
Source

Looks like the duel ain't over yet..
This comment was made on the 22nd of Jan 07 just before Putin left for India.
Do these guys just make statements before state visits?

Whatever will become of the JF-17?



[edit on 25-1-2007 by Daedalus3]

The Chinese developers have been making good progress on the simulators for the FC-1. I my opinion, this will be how future air forces train their pilots combined with actual flight time. Using technology such as this save hours and there is no risk or maintenance issues.

Heres a former F-16 pilot trying it out. He says the function is similar to the F-16

USAF pilot gives the JF-17 simulator a shot.

military.china.com...

Some google translation of the highlights.

"Fierce Dragon" fighter training simulator in Russia show everyone eager to become the focus of an American pilot carries it with the F-16 for comparison

U.S. pilot-test "Xiaolong" picture

Air Force F-16 fighter pilots Jiesenkelai come in "Fierce Dragon" fighter training simulator operation.
Photography : our old friend

"I feel good, and some of the major functions of the F-16 are very similar!" Jiesenkelai door visit to Mainz in "Fierce Dragon" on the operation of the simulator five minutes later, the "International Herald Tribune" so said. The Air Force F-16 fighter pilots maneuverability performance attracted a large crowd of visitors.

Digital function impressive

"International Herald Tribune" at the exhibition site, "Xiaolong" training simulator is the front wall of three large color LCD screen, simulated cockpit of vision. They also hung over the two smaller screen, showed the plane's air posture and the situation on the ground.

U.S. pilot-test "Xiaolong" picture

Training Simulator itself, in terms of exterior size, or internal settings are simulated real aircraft cabin built, it is not hatch. Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute engineers Fa told the "International Herald Tribune" : "This exhibition is only one Taiwan, but also the most basic 'Fierce Dragon' training simulator, production may, in accordance with customer needs to install the necessary equipment. The construction of an ordinary 'Fierce Dragon' Training Simulator thousands spent 10,000 yuan. The simulator can drill aviation, combat tasks that can help pilots familiar with the different altitude, distance and orientation, perception and momentum. "

Experience the "Fierce Dragon" Jason talked about it with the U.S. F-16 fighter distinction, also made special mention of the former cockpit panels operating on the three multi-function display, and much appreciated. He believes that, "Both the joystick and other equipment layout is also different." He smiled and told reporters : "Because of the shortness of time, not familiar with the 'Fierce Dragon' full functionality, I can not fully compare the performance of the two fighters. However, your new fighter digital functions impressed me deeply. "

[edit on 22-9-2007 by chinawhite]

Some thoughts on the Article:

The radar on the first 50 aircraft will be the chinese KLJ-7, which the PAF reports to be better that the F-16 A/B APG-66.
The PAF will continue with this radar if they do not get a 'very good offer' from the west for the same and the avionics package.
Negotiations are on for the Grifo-S7 and some AESA studies are being conducted. I wonder where these AESA options come from though..
China? Is any close-to-completion AESA work going on there?
Because I certainly cannot think of any western/Russian AESA finding its way to Pakistan through direct channels at least.
Finally the KLJ-7 has not been stress tested in Pakistani operating conditions which are much more demanding than the test temperate test environments
at Chengdu (or any other temperate western location for that matter).
This will be crucial in determining the true operational ca[ability of the JF-17 on Pak soil.

Also there is an 'open' option to integrate the AIM-120C with the JF-17.
But here's the deal:
Anything American and now even European(since all European Govts: Sarkozy, Merkel are more pro-America than a couple of years back) will be very difficult to integrate onto the JF-17 with direct western assistance.
The reasons for this are obvious, the americans are very wary of things ending up in chinese labs.

Having said this, there is no reason for the Pakistanis(and chinese) to attempt the interface themselves. They have about 500 AMRAAMs to experiment with. The downside to this is, if the Americans get a whiff of chinese tinkering, then Pakistan stands to face Pressler-esque sanctions on the 50+ F-16s it will operate.

So its a gamble... better IMO would be to stick to Chinese stuff on the JF-17.
Keeps western supply lines open for a/c like the F-16 and future possibles like the Rafale.

And about this KLJ-7... what are its tracking and targetting ranges?
Is is suited to use the SD-10 to its max abilities?
I am unable to get any concrete info on this..


EDIT: Hey what ejection system is used on the JF-17? and teh J-10 for that matter?


[edit on 23-9-2007 by Daedalus3]

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Negotiations are on for the Grifo-S7 and some AESA studies are being conducted.

From the published specifications of the other radars the Pakistan's are looking at, the Grifo doesn't seem to have any advantages bar the fact the F-7s in Pakistani service are already using a earlier version. They already make an earlier version of the Grifo at a Pakistani assembly line and that is the only reason I can see them acquiring the radar is to build it on Pakistani soil and have compatibility with existing systems. They dont have multi-targeting abilites which was one of the requirements the Pakistanis set out

The AESA radar is most likely the Blue Vixen. Although the idea has been floated around, I doubt they would acquire it because of sanctions and cost

Also there is an 'open' option to integrate the AIM-120C with the JF-17.

From the view of the Air-chief to obtain compatibility in the air force. But I doubt that would be the case for the reasons you stated

And about this KLJ-7... what are its tracking and targetting ranges?
Is is suited to use the SD-10 to its max abilities?
I am unable to get any concrete info on this..

The targeting range is anywhere from 100km+

From the information I read. The Pakistanis had a requirement of

- 100km detection range for a 3m2 or 5m2 target
- Ability to simultaneous target two aircraft
- Ability to track 4~8 targets at once (I think it was 4)

And from the Pakistanis accounts, the KLJ-7 equaled or exceeded these requirements

what ejection system is used on the JF-17? and teh J-10 for that matter?

The manufactures production name or the type?

Both have zero-zero ejection seats


BTW: Congratulations on the cricket . Pakistan vs India, I cant wait

Cricket?!!

Yeah.. promises to be an edge-of-your-seat event..
You watch?

Anyways.. yes I want to know the manufacturers for the ejection systems..
And what do you mean by 'track anywhere beyond +100km' ?!

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Yeah.. promises to be an edge-of-your-seat event..
You watch?

Wow,

How good was that game. I thought Pakistan was a certainty when India was out for 157. A good thriller just like the last game