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China FC-1 04 will fly

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posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 10:17 PM
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On this link, scroll down to AFS Lohegaon, Pune.This says that there is one Jaguar sqdrn (Dragons) of 16 a/c (IS/IM/IB variants) and one Su 30 MKI sqdrn ('Lightnings'). The 24th sqdrn was moved to another AFB.
Infact there is another sqdrn ('Rhinos') which was undergoing Su 30K - MKI here.
So 2 Su -30 MKI sqdrns and one Jag sqdrn.
Those pics on the above link are from Lohegaon.
Those guys at scramble.nl have even given the AFS co-ods!
Free intel recon on Google Earth

But the sat photos on Google earth are give a res of abt 5-10 metres as Sept 2005 so there's not much to see.Also with the uproar over here vis-a-vis Google EArth res, the AFB has been restructured as well.
Still you can see some a/c on the tarmac. With the help of guys like Waynos you could probably make out which ones are Jags and which ones are Su30s..


The 24th sqdrn ('Hunting Hawks') which also consists of Su30 MKs
(as of now must be MKIs) has been moved (few years back) up north and very close to China I might add!

Why don't you look for em'..
Scramble.nl has it all


[edit on 19-3-2006 by Daedalus3]




posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 11:51 PM
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Not the airbase, i mean the region you live in. Is it something like a city or town.

And i mean how much MKI produced not at your airbase. clear things up



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 10:52 PM
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umm.. Numbers produced?
Well that I don't know an exact figure and thats how it should be, but since there are 3 operational sqdrns each of about 20 a/c I suppose at least 40-45 will definitely be MKI. The remaining will be Su 30Ks and/or MKs.

And its a city..
4 million

EDIT:


Direct Deliveries from Russia

1st-8th Ac ,Su-30Ks (SB-001 to SB-008) inducted on 11 June 1997
19-28th Ac, first MKIs (SB-019 to SB-028) inducted on 27 Sept 2002
29-40th ac, all Su-30 MKIs, (SB-029 to SB-040) delivered in 2004
41-50th ac, Su-30 MKIs, expected January 2005


HAL Manufacture
1st Ac , a Su-30MKI (SB-102)





Source

btw.. why so many questions on a/c produced and the city itself?

You calculating the proper yield and available CEP for an aerial burst or what?
How many kilotons?




[edit on 21-3-2006 by Daedalus3]



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 01:19 AM
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And its a city..
4 million
btw.. why so many questions on a/c produced and the city itself?
You calculating the proper yield and available CEP for an aerial burst or what?
How many kilotons?


I was wondering how the person im talking to is living life. I hate the internet and talking on-line. You know Daedalus3 why did you ever choose your on-line name

Are the MKI produced in pune?.

Btw. If i was thinking about trying to take out the MKI production facilities there wouldn't be a point in a modern war since it takes months to build a plane. Unless it was very long and protracted it wouldn't make no sense to nuke it just to take out a usless factory



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite



And its a city..
4 million
btw.. why so many questions on a/c produced and the city itself?
You calculating the proper yield and available CEP for an aerial burst or what?
How many kilotons?


I was wondering how the person im talking to is living life. I hate the internet and talking on-line. You know Daedalus3 why did you ever choose your on-line name

Are the MKI produced in pune?.

Btw. If i was thinking about trying to take out the MKI production facilities there wouldn't be a point in a modern war since it takes months to build a plane. Unless it was very long and protracted it wouldn't make no sense to nuke it just to take out a usless factory



They aren't produced in Pune. But Pune is a viable N-target as ALL the a/c it holds in the AFB are N-capable.
Thats around 60 N-capable a/c. Also it holds much value in terms of other aspects which are better left 'undiscussed'

In a premptive strike it would be wise to take out Pune if you're looking for around 10 targets country wide.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 03:53 AM
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I was never into the nuclear war senario thing and i never will be. It would seem like a good target but with indias 50? bombs it wouldn't seem like a big threat



posted on Apr, 14 2006 @ 02:24 AM
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China close to testing new prototype of JF-17 combat jet co-developed with Pakistan


BEIJING: China is close to testing a new prototype of the FC-1 Xiaolong combat jet jointly developed with Pakistan, about a year behind the initial schedule, state media said Sunday.

To View Pictures of the JF-17 Thunder, Click Here to visit our Military Gallery.

The fourth prototype of the Xiaolong aircraft, a multi-role fighter-bomber with a range of 1,200 kilometers (750 miles), will take to the air "in the near future," the Beijing News reported.

The aircraft, also known as the JF-17, is a cooperative project between the Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Group in the southwest province of Sichuan and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex.

While earlier prototypes have focused on operational flight capabilities, the fourth prototype is expected especially to test the weapons fit.

The plane is capable of carrying multiple air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons, according to the paper.

Earlier reports had said the fourth prototype would have its maiden flight in April 2005. No explanation was provided in Sunday's report for the apparent delay.

Source





external image



posted on Apr, 14 2006 @ 02:27 AM
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Chinese-Pakistani Warplane Almost Ready


The Pakistan Air Force is expecting the delivery of its first multi-role combat aircraft modeled on China’s FC-1 Xiaolong in early 2007, a spokesman said on April 10.

The Air Force plans to induct more than 100 Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunders, jointly produced by China’s Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, to replace a fleet of ageing Mirage fighters.

"The program is on schedule and the fourth prototype would be tested by the end of April," Air Commodore Sarfraz Ahmed Khan said. The flight will be used to test the aircraft’s avionics and weapons integration.

Source

End of april. So any keen on its progress keep alert for the news

Its induction is also starting in 2007. The program went by pretty fast

[edit on 14-4-2006 by chinawhite]



posted on Apr, 14 2006 @ 01:16 PM
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ok ok ....This aircraft what you Chinese are making a big deal out of this...This so called aircraft cant go more faster than mach 1.7 or something(but not upto mach 2.0 i am sure)...This aircraft has mixed parts from all the other aircrafts like the mig, sukhoi or any other aircraft in Chinese inventory....
lus its not a STELATH its somewhat small..Our beloved English Jaguars can shoot it down...its no way comparable to F-16 (sorry) the Pakis have no money to buy defence...so they are choosing an alternative...with respect General Sir WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU BUYING??

bangalore boy (waiting to hear from you)



posted on Apr, 14 2006 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by rashprashsa
ok ok ....This aircraft what you Chinese are making a big deal out of this...This so called aircraft cant go more faster than mach 1.7 or something(but not upto mach 2.0 i am sure)...This aircraft has mixed parts from all the other aircrafts like the mig, sukhoi or any other aircraft in Chinese inventory....
lus its not a STELATH its somewhat small..Our beloved English Jaguars can shoot it down...its no way comparable to F-16 (sorry) the Pakis have no money to buy defence...so they are choosing an alternative...with respect General Sir WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU BUYING??

bangalore boy (waiting to hear from you)


I only read your response... But I agree... there's no way its stealthy...



posted on Apr, 14 2006 @ 09:45 PM
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rashprashsa,

If you just come here to flame then this is not the forum for you. You might be interested in pakistanidefence or some other forum where kiddies roam


Originally posted by rashprashsa
ok ok ....This aircraft what you Chinese are making a big deal out of this...


Chinese making a big deal about it?. Of course they are its for the export market. Its a cheap multi-role platform which offers 70-80% of what a F-16 can do. And is being markerted as the replacment for the Mig-21s and F-5s in service now.


This so called aircraft cant go more faster than mach 1.7 or something


Why would it need to go faster?. the actual speed for the new 04 prototype should be around Mach 1.8 which is comparable to another small light multi-role aircraft, You might be familar with it?


Plus its not a STELATH its somewhat small


Its added stealth features. mostly with the use of compostie materials and DSI intakes which hide the compressor fans which would reduce the RCS somewhat.


Our beloved English Jaguars can shoot it down


With what?

MAGIC-II 10km
SD-10 70km


its no way comparable to F-16


Its being marketed as 70%-80% as capable. The comparison should be done with the J-10 if your looking for a more comparable plane


the Pakis have no money to buy defence...so they are choosing an alternative..


No they are getting another 77 F-16s plus the FC-1 to replace the J-7s and Mirage III in service.


waiting to hear from you)


And then what? Pissing contest?.



posted on Apr, 14 2006 @ 10:36 PM
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According to the lastest reports, the FC-1 has lost 200 kilograms and gained a extra 200 litres of fuel, possibly fitted in the new LERX. It had just finished ground engine test and by the end of the week have finished ground taxi tests. By the end of april the plane will have started flight testing

Heres confirmation from a offical chinese news source
Peoples daily

Heres the changes in the FC-1 wing design. Notice the LERXs which are very similar to the F-18 and will add better AOA ability



The figures i have got for pakistani F-16 numbers are 62 (or 77 from conflicting reports). The 62 figures follows a break down of 26 F-16s of Type A and B, and 18 F-16s of the latest Block 50/52 C and D type models, with an option for 18 more.

And along with the F-16s will be 36 J-10s and 300 SD-10 missiles and 500 joint direct attack munitions. But it seems like the pakistanis are going to buy american BVR missiles to. Im just going to assume they are Aim-120s

Here is the breakdown

FC-20 aircraft (36), SD-10 BVR missiles (300), F-16 A/B, ex-Pakistan (26), F-16 C/D (18 with an option for 18 more), BVR, 500(American), targeting pods 18 and joint direct attack munitions (500).

Source

The pakistanis also seem to have paid for the MLU upgrades which have started or is being started already.

All together there should be 274 4th generation fighters in the pakistani airforce. But this figure should include some J-7Es which pakistan brought from china which has the Aim-9L and the Grifo-M radar which is a good system. You add to the equation the 7-8AWACS pakistan has already ordered and you get a decent fighting force


Anyone want to do a force comparision with india and pakistan in about 2010?

----------------------------

This is a repost of a reply i made but it seems very relavent now the J-10s seem to have now been offered to pakistan

The main advantage i see in the J-10 is the long run. Lower running cost and lower armament cost.

While capability wise the F-16 is the better fighter but it'll be even later on when the J-10 airframe matures. So both of these would be even capability in the future depending on weapons fit or if the F-16 recieves a new engine or new upgrades and what not.

But to weapons. I heard a AIM-120 cost 1million a missile and its just going to get more expensive with new advanced versions like ram jet and new advanced seekers. While there is no denying that a missile will cost a lot but you cant deny chinese missiles will be less expensive and more attractive with the possibility of a production run in pakistan which in theory could give them the ability to control their own cost and give a boost to their economy. Just like the FC-1 i would think that a production line would be built in pakistan if something like 100 planes would be built giving jobs and experience to pakistanis economy


Now what does pakistan need first and foremost?.

While it would need actual planes and any sanctions from america would be crippling for such a large force and a force which were meant to be the tip of your spear having to be ground because of sanctions for whatever you did. I never heard of china putting sanctions on any of its buyers so i would have to say it would have to be china which can deiliver

While i would have to say a air superioty fighter which the J-10 at the momment is configured most for while the F-16 offers better A2G capability it wouldn't really matter if you had better bombing capability you still need to win air superioty and i think the J-10 would win in this scenario because of its better design(VWR) and i would have to say thrust to weight ratio after the AL-31FM-1 engines are installed. And the J-10 does have limited capability like LGB and un-confirmed TVGB capabilities. But does the F-16 offer guided misssile capability? Anti-ship missiles?. Its true that the J-10 thus far does not offer this but when it does it will be more useful considering china has a lead in Anti-ship missiles over america

Im just wondering what the J-10 will feature considering its bigger and the PLAAFs pride and joy. Maybe five MFDs?. Because if it doesn't pack heat then buy some of these FC-1s because their looking good

J-10s also might have it spilt between two cockpits where the first one might only have a confriguration like this but the back seat might be dedicated towards ground strike and guidence. JL-10A radar would be a nice addition. In the future the J-10 might be spilt into two version like the F-16A/B. The F-16 in the US airforce fills the role of ground attack while the F-15 is air superioty. While in the pakistani airforce its a air superioty fighter. The F-16 block 60s hold more fuel than a F-15(internal fuel) and its possible that the J-10 could hold as much fuel as a Su-30 plus adding the three drop tanks. which could make it into a long range patrol. Maybe even twin share where the F-16 which has better A2G could do the ground work while the FC-1 and J-10 does air superioty. FC-1 could be used as a good air interceptor combined with AWACS control


Cockpit wise i would have to say equal to the F-16 block 60 in design with a FC-1 with its very similar layout and full glass cockpit

external image


Im just wondering what the J-10 will feature considering its bigger and the PLAAFs pride and joy. Maybe five MFDs?


Any electric gear and radar goes to the F-16 hands down. ECM Data-links the works all belong to the F-16 if we are comparing fighters at this momment. But as the saying goes the turtle won the race or so the story goes

Radar wise the F-16 block 52 is in another generation while the J-10 is being tested with a mecahnically scanned phassed array while a ESA is in development. Passive or active i dont know. But the J-10s mechamical radar offers enough range or BVR with 120km detection or track and has the ability to engage 2-4 fighters. And a more powerful radar is not as useful with these shorter range missiles which does not yet make enough use of the detection range

In my opinion,

Pakistan should go for the F-16 just because they need the capabilities now and cannot wait for the J-10 to mature. While all these J-10 rumours sound to BS to be true.

But if a scenario happens where there is the option to buy the J-10 the stumbling blocks would be

Engine - to a extent. it could be modifled to be fitted with thw WS-10A which had just been finished testing and is going into production. While the russians could be nice and jsut let them use the AL-31. But that would invoke the rage of the indians and you know how big a lap dog russia is now days

WS10A Turbofan Engine was formally design certificated and named “ Taihang


US pressure - While the F-16 were a gift to pakistan and the US does not let gifts like this go with out a good reason. And the 40million each fighter that pakistan will be paying for will keep the F-16 production lines open until the F-35 starts production and the on sets of lay offs etc.

It was never on the table to begin with - I like this one the most. Some people going to far.



posted on Apr, 15 2006 @ 05:00 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite


Engine - to a extent. it could be modifled to be fitted with thw WS-10A which had just been finished testing and is going into production. While the russians could be nice and jsut let them use the AL-31. But that would invoke the rage of the indians and you know how big a lap dog russia is now days



Or maybe they could try and design their own engines?....no wait...


You know what.. The best approach is to discuss stuff and calculate scenarios based on what is confirmed/certified/operational now..
In 2010 who knows what may happen. The Pak parliment maybe headed by a bunch of islamic radicals who want to nuke India/Israel/US. India may have
AMRAAM missiles which can act as stand-off weapons which would negate any AEWS with the PAF(K-172 is a case in point). The Brahmos maybe configured for air-launch. India may have 2(maybe 3 carriers) operating together. If you want to pull up a imaginary scenario now, then thats plausible. Any probabillistic future scenarios are just too flimsy. Especially with such an volatile country as Pakistan.
Maybe we can hold biannual scenario exercises involving as many relevant countries as required, taking into consideration the ground realities (miltary/political/economic).

I tried to look for info on the ERIEYE AEWS, FC-01 (PAF) and all I came across were putrid Paki sites/fora. Man those guys have a complex!!
They can't get a sentence off w/o cussing Indians!!

Best part's you dont see any of them on any fora with more neutral/international member base.
Kudos to ATS



posted on Apr, 15 2006 @ 06:05 AM
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You know what.. The best approach is to discuss stuff and calculate scenarios based on what is confirmed/certified/operational now..


I try my best to piece together the most reasonable senario. I dont put in open speculation as edvidence but as anoter view point. To plan a future senario you need to speculate a little to get a realistic senario

But i did ge it from a pakistan newspaper which quotes offical documents on their deence plan for 2009


Maybe we can hold biannual scenario exercises involving as many relevant countries as required, taking into consideration the ground realities (miltary/political/economic).


Sure, Count me in


Best part's you dont see any of them on any fora with more neutral/international member base.
Kudos to ATS


Whats your opinoin on me then?

[edit on 15-4-2006 by chinawhite]



posted on Apr, 15 2006 @ 11:30 AM
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Well the fact that you're on ATS fro so long I think very well speaks for itself..
Infact I'd like to make a point here:

IMHO We all came/come to ATS glowing with patriotism that obviously blinds us to the 'true' situation(s) at hand on the international scene. Then we interact with people from across the world and taper our nationalistic emotions because we get to experience what we are perceived as from the outside. More often than not, a meld of regional insight(which we all have in our respective regions) and international perspective is what gives one the whole picture.
That's why I am more eager to meet and interact with people who are actually living in the countries they represent rather than expatriots. Expats tend to be a little extreme in their opinions about their country espcially since they do not witness day to day events unfold in their countries. Having said that, it is also true that expats have much more to deal with on a day to day basis as they experience the 'international' view on their countries on a day to day basis. Especially in schools! Children can be so cruel ! ..



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 04:08 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
IMHO We all came/come to ATS glowing with patriotism that obviously blinds us to the 'true' situation(s) at hand on the international scene.


I came here only for SS. But before that i wasn't even the littlest bit nationalistic, But once you go on the internet you get termed by groups instead of indivuals. I haven't be refered as chinahite with a opinoin but chinawhite with a chinese prespective even though my opinon is my opinion and does not reflect chinese opinoins.Thats the difference with internet groupings in comparison to a international board.

What i think ATS does is throw a bunch of different groups iot a sinking ship letting all of them interact.


That's why I am more eager to meet and interact with people who are actually living in the countries they represent rather than expatriots. Expats tend to be a little extreme in their opinions about their country espcially since they do not witness day to day events unfold in their countries.


I actual fact people from china have different opinoins, some are moderate some hawkish. But if you go to chinese forums using chinese language you would see when situations come up they are more extreme than us "expatriots"

What you meet are people like emile which have trouble expressing their real opinions. I go to chinese languae forums an quite a few other forums and hey are in no way moderate. But then again the loud are louder than the quite


I me all types of people on the net. Ill refer to the indians i met on this. Some are quite reserved, some a very hawkish eg demanding war nuke ths nuke that etc. But theres no term to cover all of them in one group



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 04:17 AM
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What was the final call on the engines fro the FC-1 with the PAF?
I'm not getting much info for recent updates.

I got this but it may be seriously outdated:


India, considering Russia its strategic partner, opposes Russian supplies of military equipment to Pakistan, since Delhi has traditionally tense relations with it. According to Kommersant source in the Federal Service on Military and Technical Cooperation, “to avoid misunderstandings with Indian partners, the contract for supply of RD-93 to China has been designed in such way that it assumes only direct supply, without it being given a right to reexport the engines in any way, including it being a part of a plane. The contract also does not assume the granting of a license for RD-93 manufacturing in China. Therefore if Beijing desired to supply FC-1 to Pakistan, it would have to look for a substitute for RD-93.”



Source: Apr 2005



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 04:35 AM
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What people are saying now is that china is offering the WP-14, which is a turbojet or the WS-13 which performace stats are unknown. WP denotes a turbojet while a WS denotes a Turbo fan

But my opinon is the RD-93 will be used whatever he russians say. But it will be their decision if they want to make money



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 05:37 AM
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they'll use the RD-93 'whatever' the Russians say aye?
I doubt it. Firstly Russia wouldn't want to anger India which constitutes a major portion their defence export and more importantly future military program(s). So they'll hold to the clause that the engines cannot be exported out of China. Secondly China wouldn't want the jeopardise its imports from one of the only sources of tech it can access. Especially not for a 3rd party. It pretty much looks like a stalemate from here on.

What engines are the prototypes flying on?



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 06:30 AM
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Firstly Russia wouldn't want to anger India which constitutes a major portion their defence export and more importantly future military program


Well if money was the case china is one of their biggest trade partners and source of heaps of foriegn capital.

Money was a problem maybe 5, 6 years ago but now russia which produces a major portion of the worlds oil and gas has now landed the jackpot with oil prices increasing so much. China wants oil and russia has oil. Russia wants money and china wants oil. Goes hand in hand i reckon



Originally posted by Daedalus3
Secondly China wouldn't want the jeopardise its imports from one of the only sources of tech it can access. Especially not for a 3rd party. It pretty much looks like a stalemate from here on.


China does not need russia anymore. The western embargo is not a embargo from the west but only for american products. During the whole time china had access to western technology. Israel france, germany all supplied china technology

In actual reality the chinese and russian relationship are almost about staurated on the high tech field since the russians have offered all they can offer. In a sense china and russia are on par on many levels in RnD. And on the level china is investing RnD and the amount of uni grads china is producing is inevtible that russia will be over taken. I wrote on this before. The russians only are really using Cold war developed technologies.

What china really needs now is managment systems communications data links. etc. Things the russians cant offer and things joint ventures are producing. Engines from germany. France for command systems.

Russia, if you look at the systems russia gave are basically technologies from the cold war. Kilos, Su-27s, Sovs. etc are all there to inhance chinas combat capablity instead of to upgrades chinas RnD research. Other systems china has are all fom western technology during the US-china honey-moon period when china was begining to change from a peoples force to a aerican force. RRUs if you look at their force structure is similar to american ones and their equipment is also very similar. Russian equipment was only used as a stop-gap until a chinese system could be found.

Chinas having a new medium transport program with ukrainian after they dropped russia(which in turn formed a partnerhip with india). Another souce of informaion

None the less, russian help was very valuble then but now china is almost self sufficent. But none the less with the russians experience in design is more benifical and quicker to work with russian help




What engines are the prototypes flying on?


01 on RD-33 but later replaced by the RD-93
03,04 on RD-93

EDIT: I hate HTML codes

[edit on 16-4-2006 by chinawhite]







 
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