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China FC-1 04 will fly

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posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 07:46 AM
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China FC-1 04 will fly at 22 this month while Pakistan president Musharraf visit China. The FC-1 04 is very close to JSF F-35 also use DSI and low detect tech. This is a reason why Pakistan has delet order F-16 Block 50/60.




posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 09:02 AM
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China FC-1 04 will fly



Is it on a conveyor belt?




More seriously, is it the same as the FC-1 here?


No indication it will be comparable to the JSF, more like an F-16 clone


[edit on 15-2-2006 by kilcoo316]



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 09:18 AM
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Can you provide more information about FC-1's "low detect tech" and the cancellation of F-16C Block 52 by Pakistan? I only know that they have put the order on hold due to the recent earthquake, though 2 upgraded ex-USAF F-16 had been delivered.



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 09:45 AM
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It was my understanding that the FC-1 was more equivalent to the F-20 than the F-35. Does 'FC1-04' denote a major redesign or just the fourth prototype?



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 10:23 AM
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The modified FC-1 has intakes closely resembling those of the F-35 (no splitter plate etc). They are an impressive feature, and should drastically reduce the forward angle RCS. It may also feature a partially chined forward fuselage, again improving RCS. But its weapons remain external and it is not thought to have RAM/radar absorbant paint etc.

So it is NOT stealthy in anything like the F-35 bracket.



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 11:03 AM
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doesnt look at all stealthy to me. Looks like an f-16 withy maybe a touch of f-102 delta dagger in. Doesnt look vey advanced either although looks can be decieving. looks like a cheap alternative to an f-16 not an equal of an f-35

[edit on 15-2-2006 by justin_barton3]



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by justin_barton3
doesnt look at all stealthy to me. Looks like an f-16 withy maybe a touch of f-102 delta dagger in. Doesnt look vey advanced either although looks can be decieving. looks like a cheap alternative to an f-16 not an equal of an f-35

[edit on 15-2-2006 by justin_barton3]


You took the words out of my mouth...



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 12:59 PM
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This pic shows the significant difference in FC-1 "O4':



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 09:55 PM
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yea.. maybe a little more on the weapons load, avionics, radar, RCS etc. would give a better idea of the jet's capabilities.
PAF cancelled the order for the F-16s??!
Thats news to me!..



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
yea.. maybe a little more on the weapons load, avionics, radar, RCS etc. would give a better idea of the jet's capabilities.
PAF cancelled the order for the F-16s??!
Thats news to me!..


I think they started to realize that their F-16 doesn't stand a chance against your airforce ever since you guys had some air-to-air battles with US and ended up winning. I think It's good that countrys like Iran and India develope their own jet-aircrafts, i wish we worked on a joint fighter program or something like that, but it will never happen because the pressure from the west will keep Iran away from any US allied country

[edit on 15-2-2006 by Bozorgh]



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 11:54 PM
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I dont think he means the capability of the JSF but using simlar features like DSI.

The redesign makes its look more like a F-18 with the LEX and F-16 wing design

external image
external image


And this one is the GCI version with super added features




posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 01:06 AM
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Hey you're right, it looks so much like a F-16 with some F/A-18 features and different engine inlets. But I dont think it'll be much of a stealthy fighter even with its unique inlet design, its 90 degrees vertical tail already gave it away.

Is FC-1 04 supposed to be a multi-role fighter? Can anyone tell me why they still need this when they already have J-10?



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 02:05 AM
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Its being billed as a multi-role fighter but the oringal prototypes 1-3 did not have any definate radars or avonics so GM or ASM are not known as yet but its a definate possiblity. The FC-1 so far is only know to have the ability to guide LGB with a targeting pod fitted. So know multi-role capbility is LGB and rumoured is ASM which would need a better radar

But that depends on what version your gettng and what country

----------------
e J-10 is a larger more capable plane while the FC-1 if it evered chinese service would fill the ranks and replace the Mig-21s

Or might lose out to Mig-21 upgrades


So price is the biggest factor in future purchases not capabilities



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 02:09 AM
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Heres a better picture of its underside. I think it will have a underbody fuel tank

external image



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 02:12 AM
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Originally posted by kilcoo316

China FC-1 04 will fly

Is it on a conveyor belt?

More seriously, is it the same as the FC-1 here?
No indication it will be comparable to the JSF, more like an F-16 clone

Your link is too old to be seen I have to say frankly

If you guys so despise development of FC-1, you will pay for this!

The F-16 Block 50/60 almost has no maneuverablity to compatite with FC-1 04. While two fighter do dogfight in air, more load is secondary!



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by planeman
This pic shows the significant difference in FC-1 "O4':

The picture Planeman post is more accurate. that picture you post is has serious mistake of that DSI show which I have deprecated strongly in China aircraft disccusion board and made some long aguement with some gays who has lost that debate. Since I make sure the FC-1 04 has already used DSI I believe F-16 and JAS39 would have to faced a strong compatator in International market of fighter.


[edit on 16-2-2006 by emile]



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
Heres a better picture of its underside. I think it will have a underbody fuel tank

external image

for the record, there are conflicting models, illustrations and sources re the exact modifications to the "04" standard. The enlarged LERXs as seen on the above model are generally thought to be the least likely to make it into the design. Instead the wings have a slightly new layout.

Some models have the forward fuselage much more chined like on the latest US fighters. But this too is not certain.

Until we see it we won't know.

Also, in terms of aircraft capability, there can be no serious doubt that it is overall less capable than the latest F-16s and moreso Mirage-2k5+, Gripen etc.



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 10:18 PM
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Can we please have a "current" - "this is how its going to be" type pic?
And about this DSI?..
How much knowledge base does one need to implement it and what is its actual effectiveness?

What are the latest/confirmed fighter stats?
Range
hardpoints/weapons load
Radar
Avionics
Air Refueling?
Max speed?..
RCS? publicised?

Cause IMO its not goign pose a threat to the Griffen, RAfale, F-16 in the interntional market and its only theatre-based foe will be the LCA
(w.r.t. PAF)..



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
Can we please have a "current" - "this is how its going to be" type pic?


This is the closet thing your get to the current status. Models just give you a idea of what the engineers are working on and the way they see it in development. Well number 4 is suppose to fly when Musharraf visits chengdu sometime this year. The pictures are of models Chengdu put out on display for a airshow so its what they want it to look like and the technologies it will be impemented on

But believe me this was not planned out of th blue with a thought like "of lets add DSI". They weren't sitting down after 2003. This is probaly a good expenation why it wasn't put inot low level production.

Did you know that even before the FC-1 was being pyhiscally flown it was being tested on simulators and wind tunnels or stability and air performace. so when it was time to actually fly the plane it was not needed to fly thousands of man hours since most of the testing was done with computers


And about this DSI?..How much knowledge base does one need to implement it and what is its actual effectiveness?


Your've asked this question before

And heres a quote from cowlan to sum it up
"DSI stands for Divertless Supersonic Intakes. The bumps seen at the intakes are litterally called Bumps. At high aircraft speeds through supersonic, the bumps work with forward-swept inlet cowls to redirect unwanted boundary layer airflow away from the inlets, essentially doing the job of heavier, more complex, and more costly approaches used by current fighters. It proved to save significant weight, reduce RCS by concealing the engine's fans which generate most of the RCS when searching from the front. It improves performances both when supersonic and subsonic. The DSI bump functions as a compression surface and creates a pressure distribution that prevents the majority of the boundary layer air from entering the inlet at speeds up to Mach 2. In essence, the DSI does away with complex and heavy mechanical systems."

Or code magzine
JSF Diverterless Supersonic Inlet

So the basic point is it reduces your RCS it decreases the parts in your fighter and makes it lighter, cost cheaper and the DSI with bigger airflow will increase the speed of the FC-1. Efficiency etc etc

This is for the current prototypes of the FC-1 and it would be safe to assume that this new prototype will perform even better

Maximum Weapon Load: 3,600 kg
Maximum Speed: Mach 1.6
Range: Ferry range 3,000 km; Operational Radius 1,352 km
Seven storage places

Avoincs
The avionics suite onboard the FC-1/JF-17 is said to be Chinese design, comprising a head-up display (HUD), infra-red search-and-track system, night-vision goggle capability and ring-laser gyro inertial navigation system with GPS input.
Sinodefence


There is no actual package per say to go with the FC-1. Its a export fighter with different packages. There are serval radars which the FC-1 can use and different avoincs packages it can use. Grifo, Kopyo some israeli radar and of course chinese radar. With each one price goes up. So theres a difference in price. A all chinese model should cost 10million a piece thou not nessary less capable it is made in china and cost can be kept down

Pakistani version is pretty basic with chinese avonics and the possible Grifo radar installed. But all this is speculative because its there for one minute then its not. But since the FC-1 was oringally going to have a chinese platter array now it was moving towards a mechanical phassed array radar in the 90s. It might be possible that the pakistanis might wait it out or already have planned a newer ESA radar installed. Stealth spy posted a link about pakistan wanting british avonics or something alone those lines

Anyway the FC-1 is being designed so different systems can be fitted in so no definate answer yet


Cause IMO its not goign pose a threat to the Griffen, RAfale, F-16 in the interntional market


Well when the FC-1 enters the market which areas do you think the grippen and F-16 will be aiming at?.

Its the cheaper market and its not about capability but about price. WIth a F-16 your paying for a old airframe with upgrade technology. Just imagine its potenial customer market the FC-1 will appeal to countries will a small budject but want the most aircraft with this budget. Those planes are all better than the FC-1 in their current forms but with the DSI the FC-1 is getting it will get more cheaper to maintain and more simpler to maintain.

The possible planes it will replace are. F-5, Mig-21, Mig-19, Mig-17(all those older designs). And some aircraft which have been used in the ground attack role. All these aircraft need replacing and some people dont want some expensive aircraft with cannot take off or land from a dirt airfield or needs some speical attention

Chinas ability to make flexible payment choices. China will accept different types of payments and are flexible in what you pay them. Bartering and such. I give you a some FC-1s you give some natural resources(oil LPG and such). This compared to the americans which nearly always want hard currency which countries cant afford to give up. and a lesser extent the russians which are not really economicly confindent to barter goods. So the FC-1 can be based on a flexible payment choice.

The FC-1 offers 70% of the performance of a F-16(maybe more). If you buuy two FC-1 aircraft you will get to platforms instead of one and will have the aded benfit of low maintanice and you save money on the armnements.Can a F-16 carry more weapons than 3 aircraft?.

So basically the FC-1 is offering a brand new airframe with basic BVR capabilities for 10million dollars. Considering the potenial market is for african and south american countries which by the way want planes which can fly longer are good choices and any second hand F-16 is going to have trouble competing



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by planeman
for the record, there are conflicting models, illustrations and sources re the exact modifications to the "04" standard.


Conflicting models?. Theres more of them?

Please post them

Or do you mean this?




Also, in terms of aircraft capability, there can be no serious doubt that it is overall less capable than the latest F-16s and moreso Mirage-2k5+, Gripen etc.


True, but lets just let it mature first and add the better capabilities later

[edit on 17-2-2006 by chinawhite]




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