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Do You Want To Know What Happens First Hand In Iraq!!

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posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by: Beachcoma
Hope you people used local contractors and workers for that. I don't really understand the purpose of bringing in outsiders and foreigners to rebuild the country when using locals would be better.
Yes we are indeed using local contractors hired through KBR for these rebuilding projects. It is a very enticing opportunity for the Iraqis as they can make the equivalent of the average monthly salary being $15.00 (American) in just one week and this is for the laborer.

The cost of these building projects are still quite costly and as an example the brigade had a motor pool built by Iraqis for a grand total of $275,00. The cost to build this same simple building in the states would have been $20,000 at the most.

The other big and worst cost is, however, is on the part of the Iraqis working for us. When we first took over there was an Iraqi in charge of overseeing the construction projects and one night he was beheaded. His cousin ended up taking over for him and about 8 months later was killed himself. They are really taking a big risk working for us but it seems the price they get paid far outweighs the price they might have to pay for their life.

PDO3 I can't say firsthand why you see the pictures of coalition troops beating civilians. I can surmise that a lot of them are due in part to soldiers feeling threatened or having a reason to use an escalated amount of force to subdue them. I am not condoning their actions in anyway but I do have to give them the benefit of doubt.




posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 03:16 PM
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I also know what has been going in Iraq by the words and experiences of various friends one of them stayed in Iraq for a year he volunteer for the mission and occurs he is in special forces, so he was very close to violence all the time his mission was to take out specific targets.

We have another friend that came from Iraq he was station in the Baghdad area and he spend over 12 months and was due to go back after Christmas but after a physical problems were found, so he has to stay back.

His experiences were mix between searching houses for guns and guarding posts, so he meet action most of the time his views are more negative.

We also have a friend that volunteer as a civilian contractor he is in Kuwait as now and he sends reports to the company about news at the front from his perspective due to the fact that my husband works for the same company he get to read the E-mails he send.

He is in a better place and better protection.

[edit on 16-2-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 06:00 PM
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A fair and honest propaganda free view of Iraq. Thankyou for your input incog, this was an excellent account


I myself have a few questions:

-Who are most of the insurgents? fanaticist Iraqi fundamentalists, Secular Iraqis, foreigners (Syria? Iran? Jordan? Saudi Arabia?)

-Which is the most unstable part of Iraq? The most stable?

-The most sickening insurgent practice you ever saw (besides using women and children as shields for bullets)

-How long until Iraq stabilizes?

-Is war with Iran a given for most troops?

- The most outrageous lie you ever saw posted on a civilian forum concerning your efforts?

also, what is the most troublesome Islamic belief or practice which gave your battalion trouble? (ie: non-muslims searching mosques for weapons?)

Just curious

[edit on 16-2-2006 by Nakash]



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 06:13 PM
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IncognitoGhostman - glad your back ..

best thing you can do is ignore all the anti american stuff .



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 08:12 PM
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I don't support the war in Iraq but I certainly support the soldiers fighting and dying over there. It is a shame that the ones who start wars don't fight them.I have never personally been in a war zone but my younger brother and several friends are in the military here in Canada and have served in Bosnia,Kosovo,Africa,Haiti with NATO and the UN. Some of the stories that they have told me in the past about being in these places just makes me respect the people, regardless of country, that are thrown into these conflicts and have to fight for there lives daily.
God bless you Incgo and all the Americans over there fighting.



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 08:34 PM
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Thank you for your service sir! We are all very glad you're home safe.

My brother is a marine and is about to go in the next few months. I'm already worrying about him everyday.


I don't support the war in Iraq but I certainly support the soldiers fighting and dying over there.


How can you support the soldiers when you dont believe in their mission? I just dont understand the logic behind that over used phrase.


-Who are most of the insurgents? fanaticist Iraqi fundamentalists, Secular Iraqis, foreigners (Syria? Iran? Jordan? Saudi Arabia?)


My best friend got back not long ago and he said they were always going up against Syrians.

[edit on 16-2-2006 by Dronetek]



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nakash
-Who are most of the insurgents? fanaticist Iraqi fundamentalists, Secular Iraqis, foreigners (Syria? Iran? Jordan? Saudi Arabia?)

I honestly don't know who the most are but I know the ones I have come up against were Special Forces from Sadaam's former regime and foreign fighters from other countries and whos origin I was never told of.


Originally Posted By: Nakash
-The most sickening insurgent practice you ever saw (besides using women and children as shields for bullets)

From what I have seen it is the suicide bombers blowing themselves up or running their car into a crowd of people.


Originally Posted By: Nakash
-Is war with Iran a given for most troops?

Honestly I don't know about everyone but I know a majority of my fellow soldiers believe it's inevitable as well as myself unless things that are happening today change real soon.


Originally Posted By: Nakash
- The most outrageous lie you ever saw posted on a civilian forum concerning your efforts?

I would have to say all the people talking about us being crazed loose cannons. Yes we shoot innocent people and even children. There are just times and situations when you have no other choice or they just ran in the way. It's always unfortunate for an innocent person to get killed but it is simply just a fact of war and what a lot of people have to live with even if it is one of your fellow soldiers that was killed by fratracide.

As for your last question I don't know because I had the fortunate advantage to be in a place that wasn't too bad except for having the highest number of IED and VBIED incidents in Iraq.

Dronetek may god bless your family and brother now and while he is in Iraq. I can also answer your question as to how people can support the soldiers and not the war for you.

It is simple even though you don't agree with a country sending soldiers off to war. You can support the soldiers that are going to do what they are asked of and that's it.



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by Dronetek

How can you support the soldiers when you dont believe in their mission? I just dont understand the logic behind that over used phrase.



I can answer that one, as a wife of a retired Marine I know that a soldier follow the orders of his comander in Chief as long as he under the US arm forces he has to do what he is told to do.

Regarless if he agree or not with what his comanidng in Chief stands for.

I can still support and sympatized with the soldiers of my country because the are following orders but that doesn't mean I have to agree with what their comanding in chief Alias the president of the US is using them for.

Very simple.



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 09:17 PM
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Thank you IncognitoGhostman, for your service to your country.

I don't support the war, but I'm very patriotic and I support the soldiers who, in their heart, are fighting for what they believe in.

I only wish all the soldiers could have the same experiences that you had. I know many are much different.


Originally posted by Dronetek
How can you support the soldiers when you dont believe in their mission? I just dont understand the logic behind that over used phrase.


I don't understand why you don't get it regardless of how many times it has been explained. I do understand the logic behind making anti-war people 'bad anti-soldier' people, though.



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 09:47 PM
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skippytjc, dronetek, nakash, thanks for ruining the thread and making it a right-wing pep rally. Pathetic.


Incognito you have thanks of myself, my family, and everyone else in the United States for your service to your country. I am honored that a man like you, with a clear mind, no passion, understanding, and who has just given us the gift of truth from Iraq is serving our country. It is a real humbling experience for me and I will always stand right behind you.

God bless and my best to you and your family!



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 09:59 PM
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I've read your submission and I found it very informative as to just contemplate what it is really like over there for our guy's and gal's.
My father was in Vietnam and wasn't quite on the boat from Germany when the war came to an end. One thing he use to tell me about though is how many friends that he lost over there,"In a foriegn country" and he infisized on the 'Foriegn" part of it. My father was classified as a MR2/Sharp shooter, and he always told me he was ready to go to the fight, he wasn't sure if the fight wouldn't of took him out first due to the severity of the Vietnam war, But it wasn't in the cards for him to meet his maker at that time and I think that he thouhgt of that very often after he got back to the states. My father was a quiet person, but if you rode him on his Country, "The Battle was on once again!"LOL

From the time of Desert storm and other clashes that were taking place across the globe , even during 9/11, my father was on your side every step of the way and also getting a little on the "Protect my family" mode as well. There is not enough words to let you know how much I appreciate your efforts and those of all you over there,my father is gone now but he left the uttmost inprint of respect for you and your kind for the freedoms we sometimes over look and for the enduring efforts of wanting to do the right things for the good of the people of different cultures and delimmas around the world,I don't care for some of the responses that have been sported to you by way of closed mindedness and ridicule, Thank you for you intresting and informative experiences of the war through your eye's and "GOD BLESS AMERICA!"



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by IncognitoGhostman
The cost of these building projects are still quite costly and as an example the brigade had a motor pool built by Iraqis for a grand total of $275,00. The cost to build this same simple building in the states would have been $20,000 at the most.


Did you mean $27,500 or $275,000? Either way it would mean that it's more costly than in the states. Why is that so? I would've thought it would be far cheaper to get those projects done there with local workforce and local materials. Is it because of bad accounting or is it due to logistics problems?

I read somewhere (on BBC I think) that some Iraqis are complaining about this. They say that they could've built several more schools for example with the same amount of budget per school that KBR gets. If this is true, then something dodgy is going on, and somebody's pockets are getting lined at the expense of the Iraqis.

What's your take on this?



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by Beachcoma

Originally posted by IncognitoGhostman
The cost of these building projects are still quite costly and as an example the brigade had a motor pool built by Iraqis for a grand total of $275,00. The cost to build this same simple building in the states would have been $20,000 at the most.


Did you mean $27,500 or $275,000? Either way it would mean that it's more costly than in the states. Why is that so? I would've thought it would be far cheaper to get those projects done there with local workforce and local materials. Is it because of bad accounting or is it due to logistics problems?

I read somewhere (on BBC I think) that some Iraqis are complaining about this. They say that they could've built several more schools for example with the same amount of budget per school that KBR gets. If this is true, then something dodgy is going on, and somebody's pockets are getting lined at the expense of the Iraqis.

What's your take on this?


War profiteering at its finest, Haliburton style.
I really dont know this for fact, but it is a probability.

[edit on 17-2-2006 by Unplugged]



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 01:36 AM
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I wish more people could differentiate between the individual actually on the ground and the political process that put them there.

It's OK to disagree with the entire Iraq saga but it's wrong to blame the guys and girls who are obligated to serve there.

Thanks for the insites.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 01:51 AM
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Are soldiers truly legally obligated to serve in an illegal, immoral war? What about the humanity of the soldier serving? Doesn't their human heritage even play a role in their actions when they know that their servitude to a cause against other humans is wrong?


I don't support the troops. I can't be a hypocrite and support them while not supporting their actions.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 09:05 AM
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Just give you a few things to think about.


Originally posted by heelstone
Are soldiers truly legally obligated to serve in an illegal, immoral war?


Once a person joins the military, they are obligated to follow their orders. There is no recognized proof (legally) that this is an illegal war. I believe it is, as do many people, but the president is still in charge, so it's not nationally recognized as illegal. We live in strange times.



I don't support the troops. I can't be a hypocrite and support them while not supporting their actions.


I understand this position. I used to feel the same way. And while I do not support the individual soldiers who are torturing people and acting illegally, I cannot let their actions color what the majority of soldiers think and feel in their hearts they are trying to do over there.

This is a thread I started about my dilemma. You may get something out of it.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Let me ask you, would you support your son if he was going to marry a girl you realy didn't like? Or would you withdraw your support and love based on his decision to do something you didn't want him to do? Can you ONLY support people who do as you wish?

I know it's not exactly the same, but it's possible to support someone while NOT supporting their actions. I am not a hypocrite. Just because you cannot understand it, doesn't make me and the millions who share my capacity, hypocrites.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 09:11 AM
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Incognito, thanks for your service.
Stay safe.

The latest thing in the news here are reports of Death Squads roaming the cities and kidnapping and killing civilians and others. Any word on these that you can share?



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:46 AM
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Gee Sweat, is it my fault if a traitor idiot like Vekar comes up and starts insulting soldiers? Is it my fault if I can see through people for what they are (ie: supporting the insurgency in Iraq while pretending to be pro-American, in essence hoping their country loses because they hate their fellow citizens SO MUCH) ? I'm not rightwing, but I absolutely hate hypocrites. Come out of the closet- if you hate people like Incognito then just say it, but don't go to another thread 5 minutes later and say it's ok for insurgents to kill soldiers while chickening out here. That's all. Most people here know me for not being a rightwing bush supporter, but the hypocrisy of some people here is just apalling.

[edit on 17-2-2006 by Nakash]



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by Unplugged

Originally posted by Beachcoma

Originally posted by IncognitoGhostman
The cost of these building projects are still quite costly and as an example the brigade had a motor pool built by Iraqis for a grand total of $275,00. The cost to build this same simple building in the states would have been $20,000 at the most.


Did you mean $27,500 or $275,000? Either way it would mean that it's more costly than in the states. Why is that so? I would've thought it would be far cheaper to get those projects done there with local workforce and local materials. Is it because of bad accounting or is it due to logistics problems?

I read somewhere (on BBC I think) that some Iraqis are complaining about this. They say that they could've built several more schools for example with the same amount of budget per school that KBR gets. If this is true, then something dodgy is going on, and somebody's pockets are getting lined at the expense of the Iraqis.

What's your take on this?


War profiteering at its finest, Haliburton style.
I really dont know this for fact, but it is a probability.


Beachcoma To answer your question first yes I said $275,00 and that's and outragious amount of money to pay.

Now Unplugged I believe KBR is putting the bids in and then that's what we get. Then us being the Brigade hires the workers in town through the local contacts we have. This is indeed profiteering at its finest and uncalled for.

The biggest problem over there are all the civilian employees working over there. They make at the least double what soldiers do. They get this for performing jobs like sitting on your butt at the entrance to the MWR (Morale Welfare and Relaxation) center and they make like $95,000/yr with the first $80,000 or $85,000 tax free I can't remember which it is but at that amount does it really matter. Then the construction workers over there make more than that and then there are you technical personell that are "specialists" on our certain computer systems that make $220,000/yr. Last and definately not least are the Civilian Security Personnel that make starting $140,000/yr. They do the same as we do except they escort civilians around Iraq.

Now mind you us soldiers over there make chicken scratch compared to all these civilians unless of course you are a 1st Sergeant and above or a higher ranking officer say like Colonel and above. Myself am an E4 and should have been promoted by now having the required leadership school since 1997 and getting screwed by not getting my stripes. While I was over there I made just over $52,000 last year and thats only because I have a child and was married.

The biggest problem I have with all the civilians over there is they do nothing over there that the Army doesn't have a job for itself. I feel it's a big waste of spending to pay these civilians 2-3 times what we get paid for doing the same thing that soldiers can do for less. We can perform all the construction projects they do as combat engineers we are trained for this. Myself also have been doing construction for 10 years now and crew
foremen for 3 years and can well run the projects over there.


Originally Posted By: jsobecky
The latest thing in the news here are reports of Death Squads roaming the cities and kidnapping and killing civilians and others. Any word on these that you can share?

The reports of Iraqi Death Squads I personally don't know about but I believe it could be true. While we were there we we almost 100% sure that the police were allowing the suicide bombers and people setting up the IEDs do what they want or even doing it themselves.

I say this because there was a fellow soldier killed right at the end of the access road to our FOB and well he was burned alive and the others in his vehicle were burned pretty badly. The thing is that there was a police observation post right on that corner where the IED was. There are also a lot of IEDs set up near Iraqi checkpoints.

Then there was also the day we were ambushed on July 3rd. The only people we saw before coming into to town were Iraqi Police at a checkpoint we went through. We can't say for sure but believe it was
them that let them know we were coming their way and got ready for us.

As far as the death squads go it is pretty good they are doing it to scare the people into thinking we can't do anything for them and in a sense they will lose faith in us. The insurgents tried this before when they started killing hundreds of people at a time with VBIEDs but they ran into a problem they didn't count on and that was that the citizens turned against them and started turning them in. In fact we even had some insurgents turn themselves in to us because they were afraid the civilians were going to lynch them; ironic I know they were afraid of dying.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 12:11 PM
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Interesting. That's a serious case of mismanagement. Sub-con and sub-con some more. And then sub-con again. That sort of thing doesn't reflect well on the rest of the Americans there, does it? Unfortunately I don't see what the rank and file soldier could do about it.

I'm curious about the complicity of the police and the insurgents/suiciders. Why do you think they are willingly aiding them? Have the police been infiltrated by the insurgents or is it because they themselves want you guys out of their country? If it's the former, what can be done? If it's the latter, I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done.



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