More photographs leaked of Abu Ghraib

Just another way for the media to fan the flames, why were these images not shown at the time? must be a quiet news day. nothing for the 9 o'clock news! Oh i know lets show those images we've been sat on for a couple of months.

Now if they could show me a US soldier cutting someones head off with a blunt bowie on video i might get angry, they are dealing with people who would like to see them dead, is it any wonder they treat them like this?

I can think of a lot worse things done to people for the sake of interrogation and information...

"Our" torture makes their torture look like "a walk in the park".
They were made to masturbate...
I would have been like, "Can I have some lube and could you pose for me? And while you're at it smack my butt really hard please."

Journalists should stick to reporting the news not making it, how many times do we see this sort of thing in the modern media? Old stories dragged out, dusted down and presented as new news. Whos been tortured at Abu Graib in the past month? now that would be news!!

i dont really think they had the time or interest to care about human rights during the war. they probably needed to get some info out of those people and ignored the human rights question. i dont think it was meant to be published anyway..

but i agree, its ironical that we torture them for being torturers :S its something that should not have been done and i hope it will be investigated properly and the authors will get their punishment.

we must however remember that the actions that people take in the middle of war cannot be considered as how the things would be done during peace time.

and i dont think innocent people will be tortured/killed etc anymore in iraqi. now when saddam is gone.

Originally posted by BlueTriangle

Originally posted by Umbrax
For some reason I had a hard time finding the rest of the photos but I found the link.

Gallery.

Some of te images were a bit hard to look at, like #8.

These pictures are very vague. The ones that show naked/hooded terrorists being hounded by dogs don't impress me at all. The ones showing injuries don't show how the injuries occured. How is the viewer to know whether or not these injuries were inflicted at abu ghraib or during their capture? We have no way of knowing, those who hate the US will assume they're being tortured, those who do not will assume that the injuries are incidental. The only purpose pictures like this really serve are to inflame the haters.

Who is to say that the injuries shown in these pictures are not combat injuries. The only thing I find that is close to torture (and this is a mighty big close) is the hooded man with the snarling dog. As long as the dog does not attack the man...then this is nothing more than interrigation. As for the media fanning the flames....I say HELL yeah!! For the past 4 days in this country all we have heard from the media is about the Vice_President accidentally shooting someone on a hunting trip. How many people are shot by other hunters every year that we never hear about? But since the media wants to make this administration look bad..we've had non-stop coverage of this. Does the media decry the female journalist Jill Carroll. NO!!! When the media starts reporting and not trying to make the news will I believe them. Talking heads are propossing laws to outlaw this and outlaw that. Maybe we should outlaw the media, until the get back to the job of reporting. Given time I can find many articles of soldiers in Iraq talking about the good that is going on over there. But does the mainstream media report this...NO! It goes against their hatred for the current administration. (Let me say this...I am not a big fan of them either, but that is another discussion for another time) And the main stream media wonders why they are losing ratings...MAYBE because people have woken up and want to hear both sides to the story...Not just what fits their agenda. (Now, after this comment, I know I'm going to be bashed as a Bush loving Republican...But guess what I ain't. I disagree with him on most things, except for the security of this country. And as far as I'm concerned he isn't doing that completely right.) The claim is made that America is the super-power of the world. I beleive that, and guess what?? If thats to be changed, then someone tougher better come along. Until then, anyone trying to destroy us from within' should be executed for treason. And one last thought....

There is rumbling about Cheney's delay to report the accident...While I think this is B.S.....Atleast he didn't walk away from it and have his daddy, like TED KENNEDY fix the problem for him!!!

There is absolutely no reason to release these photographs. They do not help to advance the trials. Nor do they reveal any new behavior on the part of the troops. No good purpose at all.

The only effect they will have will be negative. It's very possible they may incite more violence.

Now These Look pretty SICK to me - well I guess in the name of Freedom and Democracy One can do just about Anything to a Man, and NOT call that Torture:

Even if we Show the EVIDENCE of Torture and Abuse, they still deny:

*WARNING. GRAPHIC IMAGES*

Evidence A

Evidence B

Evidence C

Evidence D

Evidence E

Evidence F

Evidence G

Torture?

Naaaaaaah!

These Guys were just Playin'!

I bet if these Pictures would show US Prisoners in Iran, the president of United States would call of a Liberation Party Immediatly!

[edit on 16-2-2006 by sanctum]

Ludacris:

The thing about this incident is, is that releasing more pictures doesnt help the situation. The more pictures they publish the more enraging to our enemy it is. We already know what was going on there, its been or is being dealt with so lets move on.

Well it happened, and the press owes nothing to the USA to “help the situation”. These photos are part of what actually happened during the Abu Ghraib scandal. Not just some guys stuck together in a naked pyramid or put on a car battery in a hood. And FYI, the PENTAGON was the organization that held up the publication of the photos at the time. They restricted access to the photos due to "national security concerns". Blame them for this coming out now rather than before.

THIS is what your country’s citizens are inflicting on others, even today I am sure. Look if you want, ignore it if you want, but you need to face up to the fact that this is probably STILL just the tip of the iceberg.

And yes, it gives people absolutely valid reason to HATE the US soldier. If you think you’re going to be captured by the US Army, and you know what kind of incredible mistreatment you will possibly get from your captors, are you going to give up? Or are you going to fight till your last breath, figuring what awaits you in military prison is worse?

If you know your enemy has no honor do you in turn show them honor?

Well, yes, actually. If you are on the side of “freedom” you ought to, don’t you think?

If you are promoting democracy and freeing a country’s people from oppression, don’t you figure you should maybe curtail any torture and murder of that country’s inhabitants?

You are using TERROR against innocent people as a tool to extract information. You are using TERROR to achieve your goals.

So, um, that means that the United States Army is operating in Iraq as a state-sponsored terrorist organization.

So hey, you can either freak out at me and call me anti-American or you can TRY TO FIX IT. It’s YOUR country.

My opinion is shared by the majority of the population on the planet Earth. We outnumber you. You ought to fix things like this before we decide to lock you in your room like the petulant children you act like.

Originally posted by darkfalcon1971
Just another way for the media to fan the flames, why were these images not shown at the time? must be a quiet news day. nothing for the 9 o'clock news! Oh i know lets show those images we've been sat on for a couple of months.

I can think of a lot worse things done to people for the sake of interrogation and information...

The government held onto the photos and fought the ACLU to keep from releasing the photos thats why they were not released with the others. Its not anything to do with the media.

Just some pertinent facts that i think some people on this post are trying very hard to ignore...

1) the US invaded Iraq without provocation, which is illegal. The UK colluded in this illegal act. Despite all the protestations that Saddam had WMDs, he had none. This was preceded by an invasion of Afghanistan of equal illegality, and the 'justification' for that is still something that makes Colin Powell, quite rightly, ashamed. It certainly made him a laughing-stock to the civilised world.

2) Most of the rest of the world abhors torture. The US is simultaneously trying to deny that it tortures people while first, setting up a network of secret prisons around the world into which their 'suspects' (arrested on utterly dubious intel) can vanish, and second, redefining torture to accommodate such tactics as 'waterboarding' and the other vile practices used at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere.

3) Iraq has been illegally invaded and ruthlessly asset-stripped. Most monies paid for 'reconstruction' have been swiftly embezzled thanks to woefully inadequate accounting. Very shortly after Bush declared 'mission accomplished', he signed an executive order giving himself control of the Iraqi oil-for-food program bank account. It had about $5bn, which vanished almost immediately. This was reported by those well-known comsymps (no, I AM being sarcastic) the charity Christian Aid... and the story, amazingly, never really got picked up by the major media.

So why shouldn't these people want US troops (who are nervy and utterly trigger-happy) out of their country?

4) As far as the torture at Abu Ghraib being 'dealt with': Lindy Englund, and the female officer in charge there, whose name escapes me, have been scapegoated. The orders for torture came down from the top, from Rummy himself, and there's plenty of testimony around from soldiers there to back this up.

All of this is just another indicator of a rather prevalent attitude amongst Americans - it's ok if we do it, bad if someone else does it to us. I remember all the fuss about the US spyplane that downed a Chinese fighter, the repeated howling calls for the plane and its crew to be returned. Nobody seemed to have the nous to turn the situation around. What would have happened if a Chinese spyplane had come into US territory? And the Chinese had blustered and tried to assume the moral high ground? And had actually KILLED an American pilot?

I'm from the UK but have lived in the US and seen the propaganda machine at work in both countries. The US version scares me more, I must confess. When a man from Liverpool was kidnapped by the 'insurgents'/'freedom fighters', someone called up the BBC and said, "We've invaded their country and trashed it, people are dying every day, our soldiers are on the streets there... and we actually are dropping leaflets on them to ask them to drop everything and look for one of our lads who was earning very handsome danger money in what he knew to be a very high-risk environment? Are we quite mad?"

A point well made, I thought. There are at least many people here who can see the other person's point of view. Many (NOT all) Americans don't seem to be able to make that simple mental leap.

Rich23:

Many (NOT all) Americans don't seem to be able to make that simple mental leap.

It's been my experience that the only people who can defend the entire Iraq War fiasco can only do so by ignoring any good points you make and instead trumpeting their patriotism and accusing you of being anti-American.

Too bad most of them don't realize that the anti-Americans that they should worry most about is their current Administration, whose actions will directly lead to the deaths of Americans worldwide for years to come. That's the depth of hatred they are fomenting in the rest of the world vs US foreign policy.

Of course, it helps if you have never been anywhere else other than the US (or some resorts somewhere that are divorced from local realities). I think that most Americans who agree with Bush and his insane War on Terror are people who don't ever leave their home state.



jako

Originally posted by CSRules
As for the media fanning the flames....I say HELL yeah!! For the past 4 days in this country all we have heard from the media is about the Vice_President accidentally shooting someone on a hunting trip. How many people are shot by other hunters every year that we never hear about?

Depends if they were shot.. 'accidentally' or not. I suspect these pictures may have been leaked to take the shooting off the front page- desperately trying to get the public to ask about something else. I'm interested to see what the soldiers have been charged with.. assault? War crimes? No doubt the lindividual soldiers will take the fall, again, and the story will be that they did it all on their own and no-one ordered them to do it..

I personally believe that our troops could serve better use than standing guard at prisons set up for combatants and subspected terrorist. My Idea is to turn the Prisons over to civilian contractors. This would completely
eliminate the possiblity of US Troops being put in such a situation again.
We would then go to the surviving family members of all those killed by
Islamic Terrorist and ask for volunteers to man the prisons. Perhaps a few New York Firemen and a couple of New York Policemen just so we would have some people with experience for emergencies. We could then ask the same Red Cross Volunteers that were so galant and helpful during the days after 9/11 to drop by once in a while with blankets and goodies from
home. I am sure this would be a much better scenerio for all parties involved including the Bush government. Then we can all crawl back on our Holier Than Thou soapbox's and wait to pounce upon the next USA hic-up we all know are coming. For anytime you hold a country as large and varied as America up to humanly impossible standards # happens! Especially when America is the only player in the entire game that has to follow the set rules. With our hands tied and buried up to our necks in the arena of global opinion the only defense we have left is our teeth. If we bite, then all the soapboxers start screaming," Fight fair you America Bastards, fight fair!"

[edit on 16-2-2006 by WHOFLUNGGUM]

WHOFLUNGGUM:

Especially when America is the only player in the entire game that has to follow the set rules. With our hands tied and buried up to our necks in the arena of global opinion the only defense we have left is our teeth.

You started it by invading Iraq until false pretenses in the first place, so pardon me if I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for soldiers in an illegal war committing atrocities. UK or US.

If they don't want to die needlessly in Iraq they can desert. If they don't, and they end up dying for nothing in Iraq, hey, c'est la vie. That's what they signed up for.


jakomo

Originally posted by Jakomo
That's what they signed up for.

I beg to differ. They signed up and are serving their duty with courage.

But did they know of the predetermined political agenda before the 1st cruise missle was launched into Baghdad?

I think not.

Originally posted by Jakomo
You started it by invading Iraq until false pretenses in the first place, so pardon me if I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for soldiers in an illegal war committing atrocities. UK or US.

So, the number two Soapboxer hollers first! And from that bastion of moral decency to our north no less! Illegal War, Illegal occupation, Illegal President, Illegal government and atrocity commiting illegal invading army.
Does that about cover it? WTF can I say I don't have a legal foot to stand on! Other than speaking as a Veternan from an earlier illegal campaign know as Vietnam, I can assure you that neither I nor any of the thousands of other America soldiers want or asked for your sympathy. All we ask is when the bullets start flying you fence sitting Canucks get the hell out of our way. Don't want to cause another International incident now do we?

If they don't want to die needlessly in Iraq they can desert. If they don't, and they end up dying for nothing in Iraq, hey, c'est la vie. That's what they signed up for.

And I am sure that you and your soapbox sitting Holymen will welcome our deserters with open arms. Funny how Canada seems to attract cowards and deserters. They fit right in nicely I understand! What ever happen to that Momument anyway?


jakomo

Cara:

I beg to differ. They signed up and are serving their duty with courage.

But did they know of the predetermined political agenda before the 1st cruise missle was launched into Baghdad?

So if they sign up for the Army and they find that they are mostly being used as political pawns, they desert. They refuse to serve in an illegal war. A lot have already done it.

If they’re still willing to die for corporations rather than their country, then they’re in the right place.

“Just following orders” is a Nuremberg Nazi defense.

WHOFLUNGGUM:

All we ask is when the bullets start flying you fence sitting Canucks get the hell out of our way.

Um, they'll be shooting at you, not us. We're safe. We're Canadians, remember? People love us. Because we're softspoken and humble.
We'll sell you the gas you need to drive your Abrams tanks maybe.

Funny how Canada seems to attract cowards and deserters. They fit right in nicely I understand!

Aw, how disappointing. You stoop to personal insults. Accusing all Canadians of being cowards and deserters... If I thought your opinion was in any way valid I'd say you deserve a warning from a mod, but I'm kind of under the impression you don't really pay much attention to what you say.

Soldiers die, it's what they're there for. Meatshields who are there so that the silverspoon crowd can keep blood off their suits.

Teachers do more for their country than soldiers.



(edited to attribute proper quote to proper person)


[edit on 16-2-2006 by Jakomo]

Originally posted by Jakomo
So if they sign up for the Army and they find that they are mostly being used as political pawns,

I think every soldier since day 1 has been used as a pawn to further politics.

History does point to this.

Everything is illegal if it dosent conform to their political views! No matter what the current US administration does it will recieve political mud slinging from these people, and if you dont agree with their views your a Neo-Facist.

God bless all troops who are over there doing what these cowards will not.

I am... speechless. Not about the pictures, though they are horrifying and sickening. But at the thought that someone would defend such actions by members of the U.S. military, an institution that is supposed to represent freedom and justice for all.