Did Cheney Intend to Shoot Whittington?

Great link, maldives01.

Amazing, isn't it?

Nice interesting article, I tell you something is not right about the whole incident and I bet it was anger involve.

Hi Marg -

Sounds plausible to me. I mean, any hunting accident is tragic really, (although I don't like hunting), but one involving such an important person - you would have thought would have been handled in a better fashion. There are certainly some odd things that don't seem quite right. Although I know a bit about birds, I don't know much about the quails mentioned as I'm not from that neck of the woods. Anyone know how quail take flight after being flushed? Do they go straight uplike ducks, or what? Come on anyone a hunter or birder here? What I'm getting at is that I imagine the gun used must have been pointing pretty much horizontal - is it likely that quail would fly quite close to the victim at that height - say 5' or less, assuming that old Dead Eye Dick is a reasonable shot?

Maybe a little bird can tell us..................

Well it seems that Mr. Whittington is one of the long time friends cronies appointed by Bush while he was the Governor of Texas.

He was also appointed to the Texas Funeral Services Commission by then-Governor George W. Bush, and during that time, the board paid $50,000 as part of a settlement with a state funeral home regulator who said she was wrongfully fired for investigating a large funeral home chain operated by a longtime family friend of George W. Bush. In what might seem a familiar story, the then-governor was not required to testify in the case.

Also it was a cover up as to the condition of the man, first it was said that no skin was broken and then the doctor interview was asked if Mr. Whittington was going home that same night, and he said that he was in ICU meaning that he did indeed had more serious injuries.

Cover up maybe gone wrong?

Here's another link - seems like it's BIG news in the States and there's a LOT of criticism and speculation. Suppose it's just possible this could be a coup or something as well - maybe Cheneys' people wanted this to blow up and did the wrong things...........

prorev.com...

Just trying to find out about quail - keep poking around!

Exactly it makes not sense for the delay unless it was alcohol involve, but the third party involve in the Hunting Festivities U.S. Ambassador to Switzerland, Pamela Willeford did a testimony making Cheney seems the wounded victim and giving the fault to Mr. Whittington.

In other worlds supposedly Mr. Whittington suddenly appeared next to Mr. Cheney and that is how Mr. Cheney shot him.

Then I wonder how close was Cheney to the Mr. Whittington.

I think that they were all drunk.

Originally posted by maldives01
Anyone know how quail take flight after being flushed? Do they go straight uplike ducks, or what?

Quail don't rise that much as they are looking for the next safe dense group of brush to land and hide in. The Gambel's quail around here sometimes won't rise at all and make a run for it through the brush. Wild common quail get off the ground around 20 feet....maybe 30 if they get a good head wind. They are not high or long distance fliers.

"Quail don't fly very high ... seldom higher than eight to 10 feet in the air. It's surprising that an accident like this could occur, but then it isn't surprising because it wasn't like shooting at a duck or something that flies higher." source

As for Armstrong's ranch of hand raised quail with possibley clipped flight feathers, maybe 10 feet rise? Never hunted farm raised birds, sounds like shooting chickens to me. Wouldn't be surprised on these Gucci hunts they ground shoot the birds and leave them for the coyotes and fox.

Here's a short quail hunting vid for an example:
www.huntingwithjeff.com...


Gambel's Quail

I don't hunt anymore, shoot with a camera...my consciousness grew up.



[edit on 14-2-2006 by Regenmacher]

This is from USA Today - quite humorous I thought!

"I think Cheney is starting to lose it," Jay Leno said. "After he shot the guy he screamed, 'Anyone else want to call domestic wiretapping illegal?!'"



Quail - Seems the story could be right according to what I read here -

sherpaguides.com...

Think it was Northern Bobwhites - Dick will tell us for sure when he gets around to it ;-) Don't show much fear of man until a close approach is made, then they panic and fly off, and not too high either. Sounds a bit like our partridges and quails in the UK. Just to do a CSI here though - say Cheney and his pal were standing side by side, say 3m apart, pal goes back, returns the same way and then the quails take off. Why then, and not when the pal goes away? Surely the birds did not sneak in between Dick and Whittington?

Not my joke - wish it was - they're saying that the poor unfortunate guy was a member of Al Quailda

Could he be the anti-christ will he be healed and okay in 3days and say he is God? The world was astonished by the head wound...Revelations somewhere in that book.

But think about it the whole world can be astonished al at the same time and stupid things like this do happen. A very ritch man he is. But anyway its a portrait of what it could be like if this prophecy happened this way.
Come on people its a conspiracy website not here to stir up serious chat.

Hope Micheal More has a go at him

[edit on 14-2-2006 by The time lord]

Originally posted by maldives01
prorev.com...

Just trying to find out about quail - keep poking around!

Hmmmm...

1. The news reports say the accident happened "around 5:30 pm" on Saturday. In Texas, quail can be hunted until 30 minutes after sunset. Sunset on Saturday, in Corpus Christi, was at 6:18, which means they were legal until 6:48. The "around" is suspicious.

Why is it suspicious? Because they didn't know the exact time? I am posting this around 5pm (PST). Is that suspicious?

2. The news reports say that after Whittington had gotten off his shot and went looking for his bird, Cheney and the other hunter went to another spot where they saw a covey of quail. Texas quail might be different from Iowa quail, but in Iowa when a shotgun goes off, every quail within earshot flutters away. The story doesn't make sense.

And after a rapid fluttering which can be in ALL DIRECTIONS, they settle back down in the bush to hide. They actually prefer to run.

This whole statement is misleading to convince you that they fly away somewhere. It's not the story that doesn't make sense. It's this "hunter's" description.

3. None of the stories have commented on the fact that they were "road hunting", or hunting from a car. That is just about the lowest kind of low-rent, dishonorable kind of hunting there is (the phrase "road hunting" is often used synonymously with "poaching"). When I was growing up in Iowa, I went pheasant or quail hunting on scores of occasions with my Dad and others. We never would have hunted from a vehicle and it was an insult to even suggest that someone might. It was considered dangerous and declasse, as it was too great an advantage for the hunter to be "fair". It most states, including Texas, it is also illegal: "It is unlawful to hunt from or by means of motor-driven vehicles and land conveyances or aircraft of any kind except paraplegics and single or double amputees of legs may hunt from stationary motor-driven vehicles or land conveyances."

Legal in many cases.
- hunts or attempts to any wildlife resource vehicle motor or motor driven land conveyance; Exception: It is lawful for disabled persons who are in possession of a state issued disabled parking placard or license plate to drive directly to the hunt area and hunt from a stationary motor vehicle or motor driven land conveyance provided the hunting is not conducted on a designated road and the engine is not running;

This is Texas law (easy to find). There are many other sections to it. I just wanted to show this "hunter" doesn't know his laws. I live in Washington where it is also legal to hunt from a vehicle with a disabled permit. You don't have to be an amputee and all that.

However, Texas exempts private property owners from the prohibition when they are on their own land and Cheney was with the property owner on his ranch. But it is still really tacky.

Small game that you drive to a field...park and then hunt the field? Not tacky at all. Farmers do it all the time.

4. Hunting quail in Texas requires an "upland game bird stamp", which costs $7. This is a relatively new requirement, but I'll bet Cheney didn't have one.

Bah! He missed a $7 stamp...lord.

5. The spin is that Whittington "came up from behind the Vice President", implying that he snuck up on him or was somehow partially responsible because Cheney didn't know he was there. When hunting, it is bad form to walk in front of someone's gun. When given a choice, one would always approach another hunter from behind.

Which when hunting quail you could be at someones "side" in a second. If he went off to get a bird and then caught up to Cheney without him knowing, he could have been in the danger zone easy.

All-in-all, that blog post was crap.

Thanks for the info Regenmacher, we have quail in UK, but obviously not the same species as you in the States. Ours behave more or less the same though, seen it, so maybe the story is not that far-fetched. Still fishy, but not from that angle.

Similar story for me funnily enough - used to fish, can't now - I just take pics as well. Hit you around 30 did it?

Interesting points in this USA Today timeline.........

SATURDAY, FEB. 11

4 p.m.: Cheney begins a quail hunt with four others on the private Armstrong Ranch in south Texas.

6:30 p.m.: Cheney accidentally shoots Harry Whittington. Secret Service agents and medical personnel with Cheney tend to wounds on Whittington's face, neck and chest.

7:20 p.m.: An ambulance takes Whittington to Christus Spohn Hospital Kleburg.

7:30 p.m.: White House chief of staff Andy Card tells President Bush there was an accident, but is unaware Cheney was involved.

Firstly, says that the accident occured at 6.30 - most reports say "around 5.30" Is this a typo, wrong info? Is USA Today considered a good source? ( I don't know being from UK )

Secondly, and this puzzles me - maybe I'm being thick here, but at 7.30 when Card tells the Pres that there's been an accident, and says that he's unaware that Cheney was involved, why would he even know if Cheney wasn't involved? Would he tell the Pres if it was just a bunch of obscure hunters having a pop off at everthing that moved and one of them moved?


[edit on 14-2-2006 by maldives01]

One word. Five letters. KARMA. And there's more to come young Cheney. What? Five heart attacks isn't enough sign from God to straighten your act up? Focus Cheney.

In the famous words of Eminem:

I know that you got a job Ms. Cheney / but your husbands heart problem is complicating

Look alive Mr. Cheney! No seriously, look alive. OMG Wait! (leaning in closer) Is he dead? AAC

Originally posted by maldives01
Similar story for me funnily enough - used to fish, can't now - I just take pics as well. Hit you around 30 did it?

21 actually, started hunting and fishing as a child of 5. More fun to watch and not so gung ho on eating venison or dressing/gutting big game anymore. When a deer gets up on you after you shot him, looks you straight in the eye, bleats in shear agony, and then you have to shoot him again at point blank range to put him out of misery...that's it, enough is enough.

To me it takes of element of evil to get pleasure from blasting 70 pheasants in a day on a canned hunt as Cheney did in Pennsylvania. Freaky old wierdo.

Cheney's bird hunt draws critics' fire -500 pheasants blasted






[edit on 14-2-2006 by Regenmacher]

Regenmacher

Started to fish at 10, gave up at 30 - knew it was wrong for a while before that as well - just kept going from habit. The deer analogy strikes a chord as well. What I've learned through observation whilst walking/talking to cats/diving, I'll tell you the people who think that animals ( and fish!) are non-sentient are , well sadly misinformed. They need to take a look. A real look. And, yeah, the Cheney/Pheasant thing is kind of, well, criminal really! ( And disgusting) Nice cartoon by the way Glad you gave it up

www.drudgereport.com...
NYT: CHENEY FACES GRAND JURY INVESTIGATION IF MAN DIES... In Texas, Carlos Valdez, the district attorney in Kleberg County, said a fatality would immediately spur a new report from the local sheriff and, most likely, a grand jury investigation... MORE...

Told you....

Actually, more on that here...

Hunter Shot by Cheney Suffers Mild Heart Attack

The turn for the worse in Mr. Whittington's health changed the White House response to the hunting accident as well as the response of local law officials in Texas. Officials there said that they were monitoring the case and Carlos Valdez, the district attorney in Kleberg County, said a fatality would require a new report from the local sheriff and, most likely, a grand jury investigation.

In the same article, I noticed something else...

Dr. Blanchard, at a news briefing with reporters outside the hospital, said that with birdshot wounds, the first 24 to 72 hours were important because that is when the pellets are settling themselves in the body. Dr. Blanchard said that doctors could not determine exactly how many pellets were in Mr. Whittington's body, but that it was "more than the fingers of my two hands, but less than 150 or 200."

What does that mean??? Did you see the body injury graphic in the accident report? Is the disbursement of birdshot very wide at great distances? He could 200 of these things in his upper body?

Why is it difficult to determine? Anyone know? Can't they just do an x-ray?

He said that only one pellet appeared to have reached Mr. Whittington's heart, and that doctors, believing it would not move, decided, in consultation with Mr. Whittington's family, not to remove it through surgery.

How close do you have to be for birdshot to penetrate clothing and the chest wall of a man to "lodge" near his heart?



[edit on 14-2-2006 by loam]

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander

Originally posted by maldives01
prorev.com...

4. Hunting quail in Texas requires an "upland game bird stamp", which costs $7. This is a relatively new requirement, but I'll bet Cheney didn't have one.

Bah! He missed a $7 stamp...lord.

If I'm out driving without a license (around $25 here), and I hit somebody, who then ends up in Intensive Care- please believe that I would be locked up immediately. I would not receive the courtesy of a 14 hour delay in my apprehension.

To people who know something about hunting:

How many rounds do you have to fire at 30-35 ft. (about 7 car lengths, I think) to hit somebody with damn near 200 pellets, or whatever?

As an aside, I was watching CNN with my mother when the news broke. She looked right at me at said, That man will not make it out the hospital- he's probably already dead. And, so, I say, Ok, since they said he'll be out tomorrow (Mon.), we'll know you're right if they come up with some excuse to keep him there. Sure enough, he has a heart attack.

One thing we know for sure, Cheney's not worth jack squat as an assassin. Splattering Whittington with bird shot worked about as well as offing GWB with a rogue pretzel a few years ago.

The safest place for Osama right now would probably be in Cheney's walk-in closet.